Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

[PsyGuy]

@Joe30

I wouldnt disagree using the average on the MPS for the four areas your looking at about £25K (though most DTs would be £22K), but there are still a lot of factors, you could do very will in the UK teaching at Eaton for example, but your right without any type of OSH package your looking at about USD$30K before taxes, and after taxes a good deal less, I concur the financial scenario is pretty dismal. Id still even under those conditions advocate doing your induction year (and your NQT year is a little better in terms of time and preps).

[joe30]

My position on this is pretty straightforward: I go to work to get money. If there's places that are paying twice as much in total comp in nice locations, it's a real straightforward choice to go there rather than sit at home earning peanuts.

Couldn't really give a damn about which option makes me a 'better teacher' since I don't do work to change the world, I do it for the cash like most other people.

After taxes, a UK NQT with a student loan (90%+ of teachers) will take home $22,400. Derisory. Insulting. Wouldn't get out of bed for it, let alone for a job that requires working 55-60 hours a week like in the UK.

[sdakota]

Not that it's a pity ., but teaching in the US is not all that great either as a DT. While your salary might be higher, the pressure on a Title 1 teacher is immense. Even more so with a primary teacher, but any testing grades (3rd grade and above) will have a ton of pressure put on you.

More topical to the conversation here, the kind of workload /pressure at a 3rd tier IS is so much better than at a DS in the US. Even if it's your first year, you will likely have better students than at a DS, I feel like the overall environment is much less "sink or swim" than at the domestic schools in the US - perhaps because less people are drowning in day to day extreme pressure.

The mentor-ship program in the US is typically run by folks who didn't ask to be doing it, and who are having struggles of their own. It's super hit or miss. If I had to do it over again, I would pick most IS over DS even 3rd tier. Don't get me wrong, there are some great DS schools in the US, but it's very difficult to get into them, and will only be harder in the coming years.

Just my two cents.

[Thames Pirate]

Those touting the US DS system based on pay in NYC (really? That is not going to get you far in NYC) have obviously not spent time in US DSs. The workload is so much higher in a DS in the US. There is absolutely no comparison. Mr. Thames was working more hours at part time in the US than he is at full time at an IS here in WE. Also, those pay scales are for big cities, where the cost of living is pretty high--NYC is more expensive than London. It might make sense in Houston from a pay perspective, but then you are living in Houston AND teaching there. They pay so well (relatively) because nobody wants the job otherwise.

I can't speak to the UK DSs, so I won't try a comparison with something I don't know. I will say that US DSs teach about 80% of the timetable as well. Here the max is just over 60%.

Mr. Thames worked more at part-time in the US DSs than he does at full time here in a Tier 1 IS in WE. I fully agree that the workload at ISs is so much better than at DSs in the US, even when you have fantastic students in your DS as we did.

If you can go abroad, do it. You get that valuable living abroad experience, you are not likely to be as overwhelmed, the pay is frequently better even at lower tier ISs, and often you can get curriculum experience right out of the gate.

[joe30]

Probably the first time I've agreed with Thames Pirate.

[PsyGuy]

@Joe30

Then you should consider staying another year and doing induction, as you will be more competitive at elite tier BSs which have the greatest coin.

@sdakota

I wouldnt disagree with your conclusion, but its range restricted, not all DSs in the US are title 1 DSs. They are a very polar subset of a very broad continuum of DSs. There are just as many DSs that are in affluent, well resourced and comfortable places.
Comparing a Title one DS to an IS is like comparing oranges to eggs. It would be closer and more accurate to look at US private/independent DSs which have a vastly different focus that is much more congruent to ISs without the stress of high stakes assessment.
The LW in this case is a PE DT/IT there isnt any assessment pressure or stress. They arent a Lit DT trying to get students to read at GE, and they arent some Maths IT trying to get some semblance of algebra into students who just dont get math. In primary a PE DT is breaking out the p[parachute or playing duck duck goose, and making sure students get the required amount of physical activity. When it comes to assessment time those PE DTs are monitoring a hallway or proctoring a test.

@Thames Pirate

Thats not the point, your making twice as much as a base salary in NYC then you are even on the inner London MPS, and London isnt cheap either. Further there are DSs in NYS (KLSD, that pay 6 figures (CA as well, PAUSD, https://www.pausd.org/sites/default/fil ... eacher.pdf).

You may not like Houston, but again not the point. You can find starting salaries in lots of locations and regions int he US at around $50K (youd get $50K at entry step in Hawaii with a Masters, Id like living in Hawaii).

Id conclude your percentages are off. The typical instructional day (8am - 3:30pm) is 450 minutes. Standard DTs in the US have a bell schedule of 8 55 minute periods A typical DT gets a 30 minute lunch and one 55 minute period for prep, plus 5 minutes between each period (8 periods of 5 minutes is 40 minutes). Meaning The prep time of a US DT is typically 125 minutes out of a total of 450 minutes is a duty proportion of about 72% (rounded). Its difficult to get a typical time in all of IE, daily duty schedules can vary widely. I dont dount your duty time is 60% but thats only 10%-12% less than US DE.

Again comparing a US municipal/regulated/public DS to a private/independent IS is comparing oranges to eggs, compare a independent US DS like the BS Houston or UNIS (NYC) and the experience, is much much more congruent with IE than it would be at some Title 1 DS in the US. Your experience in the US just isnt the summary of ALL DE experiences in the US.

[Thames Pirate]

Not only are passing and lunch times not "prep time," but we were discussing teaching load--as in, teaching 4/5 block periods, teaching 7/8 classes per day, teaching 25/40 or 27/35 per week, etc. Passing times and lunches and such exist at all schools.

And yes, you get paid well in places in the US--usually there is a reason for it. If it isn't cost of living, it's hardship, just as in IT. You get paid more in the ME than in WE just as you get paid more in Houston than its suburbs. Pay is also reflective of workload in many cases.

Workload is not just teaching load. The workload in the US is higher.

Also, clearly you have never taught PE.

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

Lunch and passing time isnt prep time because @Thames Pirate says so, well we disagree.

I understand your agreeing with me, yes you can get paid well in the US and not everywhere is a hardship. Lots of people would love to live in NYC, Houston, Boston, Los Angeles, etc.. Its not true because @Thames Pirate says it is.

You can get paid as well in the US as you can in the ME, theres 6 figure salaries in the US.

The workload for you in your experience was higher, there are lots of locations where the workload is comparable, see my previous post for the discussion.

I have taught PE, and am fully credentialed in PE and Health.

[Thames Pirate]

OP, go abroad. Why not?

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

Better coin, mentoring, better resources, broader skill development, etc.

[Thames Pirate]

In IE? Absolutely.

[OzGrad]

As an example in Australia when you first graduate you are given a provisional certification. Then after x amount of time/portfolio you gain full certification which you can use to get QTS.

If you decided to head straight overseas, eventually, you will have problems renewing your provisional registration. This may affect your ability to get a visa for some countries. It also limits the ability of your IS to truthfully claim their teachers are fully certified in their home countries.

Therefore, it is better to get full certification in your home country which you can transfer to QTS (which does not expire).

If you are only planning to teach for a few years, head straight OS. If you have longer term plans it's better to just suck it up and get the experience.

OG

[OzGrad]

The types of school that will accept you as a teacher with no experience is not somewhere that you will get good mentoring/resources etc.

I have just spent my first year in one and am now in a DS for my second, chalk and cheese.

On the plus side I have one year IB experience...

[PsyGuy]

@Thames Pirate

In DE absolutly.

@OzGrad

Id generally concur, though their are scenarios IE is a better decision. An example is a teaching field that is over saturated and has little demand. You could be waiting for an appointment to get full registration for a very long time if not indefinitely.

Thats not true, there are some great DTs in some real train wreck poo holes of DSs.

[Thames Pirate]

Oz, I don't think the OP was talking about licensure (in many places you are fully licensed after practicum and can go straight abroad) as much as jobs requiring 2 years' experience. Otherwise I would agree with you--get licensed fully. But if you are already licensed, go abroad.

I got better mentoring, PD, better resources, and the same pay in IE--and I was able to build my resume (IB, international experience). Obviously it varies school to school in both. IE and DE, but it generally makes more sense to go abroad in terms of career moves.