Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

HighHo
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:41 am

Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by HighHo »

Greetings,

So I just recently received my teaching license in Physical Education. My bachelor's degree is also in this field (Kinesiology with a focus on P.E.). I have taught ESL abroad for 2 years, but I know that amounts to nothing in IE. So what should my next step be to getting a contract as a P.E. teacher? I applied to many schools directly via email. The ones that actually responded said I needed 2 years of experience.

I am from the U.S.A., but I have no desire to return home to acquire the necessary 2 years experience. I read online about others going straight into IE after receiving certification, but I would like to get more advice from you guys. I suppose the only thing I have going for me at the moment is I am single, I have no student loan debt, and I am willing to teach anywere in the world. I would prefer to teach somewhere in South America. The pay is not a big concern to me as long as I can cover the essentials and travel a bit during the holidays, Im not looking to save much if that makes a difference. I have lived in many dangerous places throughout Latin America, so areas that are deemed "dangerous" are not a problem for me.

Where do I start? I saw some people recommended tieonline. Sending out resumes blindly to schools hasn't been successful for me. I don't think attending a job fair would do me any good as I have no teaching experience and P.E. appears to be a competitive field. Just looking for advice and recommendations. Thanks guys.
b12r
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by b12r »

No as competitive as you think. When I was a member of SEARCH (before being hired) there were several PE openings.

There are things called Interns that some schools have. Of course, SEARCH has a list of those and unsure which schools are still hiring/looking for interns. Basically an intern is a "helper". Each school does them differently but think of a Teacher Assistant in college maybe a teacher's aide in the USA. Again, this is a subjective way of looking at their duties but a way regardless.

My true advice, is to return the the states and get the ever so elusive 2 years teaching experience. Get that and your job market goes from a pin prick of jobs to wise open. Also will be much less of a head ache job hunting.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by Thames Pirate »

I say apply, apply, apply. In the US and abroad. You might get lucky. You might end up back in the US. But don't overthink it. Just apply to as many jobs as you can!
joe30
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:10 am

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by joe30 »

Apply to anything that you think would be suitable and hope something sticks. There's no other way to do it.

I'm 100% supportive of NOT getting the 2 years experience. Life in the West is terrible, why subject oneself to 2 more years of it? Career be damned, this is your life, and time is the most valuable thing of all. Don't waste it being miserable.

I don't have 2 years experience (I'm still a PGCE student), and I've got a job abroad in a decent location for next year. Pay is a LOT better than I'd be getting back home. Lifestyle a ton better. Why wait and subject yourself to hardship - just bite the bullet and go.
dude
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:18 pm

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by dude »

It might be a bit late to start signing up for search, so using TIE is a good option. I was in your boat 2 years ago. I applied to 75 or so positions (basically everything that wasn't in Saudi). I got a handful of interviews and offers, mostly for mediocre schools that were ok hiring someone with only ESL experience. I accepted the one that seemed the least terrible, and it has been a fine experience. Finishing my second year now and just got hired at a much better school. I initially used Search Associates though, which opened a few more doors than TIE. But if you apply to everything and are ok putting in 2 years at a school wit hsome problems, you should get your foot in the door.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

You are going to have some serious issues. First, the forum consensus is that 2 years of post credential experience is the accepted and general bar to entry into IE.
The problem you have is that going to the USA to get the experience is likely going to be a non-starter. There are lots of unemployed PE DTs, and its a saturated field in the US. Unless you know someone or have a DS that already wants to hire you, you very likely would be sitting around for years for an appointment if ever.
The issue in IE is that PE is also very saturated, and lower tier ISs wont hesitate to hire a LH with minimal or any credentials.
Within IE an intern class IT is a fully credentialed DT/IT with less than two years experience. SA has a fair (BOS) that allows interns to recruit (its already over for this recruiting cycle), but also gives you access to their jobs database. For you its not too late at all. Its likely your references will be mostly academics, with one from your field experience supervisor, and many of the ISs that would be interested with a candidate at your level will still be recruiting for quite a while.
TES is a service I would recommend its free and there are no complex registration requirements. COIS is also another free option, but has a registration system similar to SAs. I would also recommend sites like Daves ESL cafe, which you can usually find PE vacancies, though they are more ESOL appointments.
I would also recommend TIE, the fee is $40/year which is very reasonable compared to SA and ISS.

My suggestions as far as utility and marketability:

1) Micro Experiences: You dont say what you do now but either starting or becoming part of some form of ASP coaching with children is going to fill in some of the white space on your resume. With the right opportunity you could spin it into IT/DT education on some type of part time basis, and if you can add enough experiences you can spin it as full time experience.

2) Coaching: You need to add some coaching qualifications in individual sports especially at the secondary level. Preferred are IOC governing associations but others are also marketable.

3) Competition: You dont say what your background is but being an active competitor in some organized or individual sport will again fill out your resume.

4) Additional Qualifications: Your certification is in PE, but do you have a health credential as well? Adding something else such as SPED/SEN, or ESOL or science (such as biology/life science) will help your marketability as well.

5) Location: You are very mobile and while not ideal being int he right place at the right time can be a strong advantage. If you like the LCSA pick a country (such as Mexico) and go there, be an ET teaching ESOL and keep an eye out for opportunities. Build a professional network with local ISs (relief, substitution, ESOL, ASP) and when something comes up youll be near the top of their list.

6) Start dating someone who has a better resume than you, hopefully you can leverage the relationship into consideration for yourself.

Were just finishing up the peak of IE recruiting now all the lower and lower tier ISs start their recruiting so keep sending those resumes out.
HighHo
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:41 am

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by HighHo »

Thanks for all the replies (b12r, thames pirate, joe30, dude, PsyGuy). I have been sending out my resume to any ads that I see online about P.E. positions. Im still new to the IE circuit and I find it quite odd that there are a lot of P.E. positions in China. Why is China so desperate for P.E. teachers more than any other country? Would these schools count towards gaining my 2 years of experience? If I teach at an UNaccredited international school in China, can I use this to transition later toward the better schools? I have been in contact with a Chinese recruiter, but I am worried that the experience in China will not count in the eyes of real international schools.

There are a lot of schools in my state looking for P.E. teachers, and I believe I could land one of those, but I agree with joe30, in that I dont wan't to be miserable teaching in the U.S.A. for 2 years. Life is short, besides I don't even know if I'll be alive by then, we could die at any time. It's all about the moment RIGHT NOW. What I do know is that I am very passionate about this subject. I studied P.E. simply because it is entertaining to me. My advisor told me, "Do what you love and the rest will fall in place," so I changed my major to P.E. and never looked back. Any interviewer could look into my eyes and see my passion. I live it and breathe it. I am willing to work for very little, so long as I can cover the essentials.

PsyGuy you are correct in guessing my references are academic and student teaching only. It sucks, but what can I do. I have been to Mexico and I really like it there. Oddly enough, Mexico and China seem to be major markets for P.E. teachers at the moment. Not sure why. I am going to continue researching and sending out resumes, but right now, it looks like I will have to pursue Mexico and China for a P.E. position at a school that may not be accreditted. I appreciate the advice guys, Thanks a lot.
joe30
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:10 am

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by joe30 »

That stuff about following your passions isn't entirely true. Yes, you should have a lifestyle goal in mind and set out to achieve it. I also do not believe in burning precious years doing something that makes you miserable just because it looks pretty on your CV. However, at some point you may have to make some compromises to make your dream a reality. Is your passion PE teaching, or is it working abroad? If it's both, which one is most important?

If I'd followed my 'passion', and did a PGCE in my degree subject, I knew I'd find it much more difficult to get a job since there's no market for my degree subject abroad. That's why I've done it in Primary/Elementary instead - because by far the bigger goal for me is to live outside the UK rather than anything teaching or education related. You need to decide what's most important to you.
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

HighHo wrote:
> Thanks for all the replies (b12r, thames pirate, joe30, dude, PsyGuy). I
> have been sending out my resume to any ads that I see online about P.E.
> positions. Im still new to the IE circuit and I find it quite odd that
> there are a lot of P.E. positions in China. Why is China so desperate for
> P.E. teachers more than any other country? Would these schools count
> towards gaining my 2 years of experience? If I teach at an UNaccredited
> international school in China, can I use this to transition later toward
> the better schools? I have been in contact with a Chinese recruiter, but I
> am worried that the experience in China will not count in the eyes of real
> international schools.
>
> There are a lot of schools in my state looking for P.E. teachers, and I
> believe I could land one of those, but I agree with joe30, in that I dont
> wan't to be miserable teaching in the U.S.A. for 2 years. Life is short,
> besides I don't even know if I'll be alive by then, we could die at any
> time. It's all about the moment RIGHT NOW. What I do know is that I am very
> passionate about this subject. I studied P.E. simply because it is
> entertaining to me. My advisor told me, "Do what you love and the rest
> will fall in place," so I changed my major to P.E. and never looked
> back. Any interviewer could look into my eyes and see my passion. I live it
> and breathe it. I am willing to work for very little, so long as I can
> cover the essentials.
>
> PsyGuy you are correct in guessing my references are academic and student
> teaching only. It sucks, but what can I do. I have been to Mexico and I
> really like it there. Oddly enough, Mexico and China seem to be major
> markets for P.E. teachers at the moment. Not sure why. I am going to
> continue researching and sending out resumes, but right now, it looks like
> I will have to pursue Mexico and China for a P.E. position at a school that
> may not be accreditted. I appreciate the advice guys, Thanks a lot.
===========================
I wouldn't overthink the whole accredited bit. If a school is a K-12 environment and makes any pretenses towards being an int'l school (e.g. calls itself that, is part of an int'l dept. of a larger local school/university, etc.) then many/most future potential employers will "count it" as legitimate teaching experience as long as you are teaching a specific subject area (as opposed to teaching English in an ESL environment). And the odds are that virtually all schools you would be applying to will be accredited by someone, somewhere and/or are "applying for" accreditation by someone, somewhere.

A few successful years of teaching at most any lower tier school will help your future applications significantly. If you are comfortable with Mexico then I would certainly focus your efforts on schools there as the cost of living and local entertainments will help to offset the traditionally lower salaries being paid. China will always have many openings across the board due to the vast numbers of int'l schools (and those aspiring/pretending to be int'l schools). If you are feeling adventurous and up for a challenge (and can deal with the pollution for a few years) then apply to any school there with an opening. You may or may not have problems with applications in China as many provinces have a two year experience requirement for visas, etc.

You might also consider some places in the ME and even Egypt if you are not that picky about where you start your career.

As for following your passions, I would generally agree with that. It is all well and good to go into a field that offers a higher likelihood of being hired but you then have to actually do the job (and hopefully do the job well to better your chances at future applications). There are probably some jobs/subjects I that do not interest me where I could do a decent enough job but I prefer to actually really enjoy my time at work and look forward to going to school everyday (even though I also really do enjoy my time off as well). Good luck with your job hunting.
OzGrad
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:43 am

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by OzGrad »

I started off overseas and have come back home to get my full licence. In hindsight it would have been better for my teaching to have just done the two years straight off the bat. There is much better support/resources in comparison to where you would be teaching. The time flies, you get 12 weeks holidays each year and at the end of two years you are fully licenced. This will make you a much stronger candidate as opposed to the other pathway. Of course there are exceptions but think of it like building a house, you want a strong foundation before anything else.

If you are anything like me you will just head straight off regardless, either way, good luck!
joe30
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:10 am

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by joe30 »

@OzGrad

You're fully qualified as soon as you have your teaching licence. The 2 years thing is just what many/most international schools want to see.

It's true you won't be competetive for the higher end schools without the 2 initial years - but even the lower tier places pay significantly more than 'back home' when you figure you're paying less/no taxes and have your accomodation paid for you. Working in a US or UK DS is a third tier option in itself, I don't think you're any worse off jumping ship right away. For instance, the IS I've ended up getting a job (as an NQT for the next academic year) at is one of the lower payers in the country. But when factoring in the value of accomodation, my after-tax takehome at the 'third tier' school is twice what I'd have after tax in the UK. That's an extremely significant difference and one that is often not weighed up by contributers who blindly state 2 years at home is the best route.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@HighHo

China is a big country, and while a hardship post it has a lot of vacancies to fill. Why PE and certain other subjects and not other more academic subjects. A lot of those PE vacancies are really just ET positions. Youre doing an English lesson and using sports as the vehicle for the lesson. The other issue is that PE is typically part of an ISs enrichment program, its not a subject they really care about. No ones taking exams at IGCSE or AP, etc.. in PE. Its a filler subject for primary and constructed recess for secondary students. As such many ISs at lower tier ISs will hire anyone to do the job.

Im sure the IS is accredited by someone, even if its only that regions MOE. If they truly arent accredited by anyone then what are they? Are they a cram ES or an EAP ES? What are you doing? Are you providing an English class through athletics (an EAP program) or are you providing an academic EP, it might be hard to determine based on your vacancy, but what about everyone else. Are there actual maths, science, humanities courses, or does it look like a group of students who are essentially studying and the ITs are just monitoring or giving some type of ESOL lesson. You can probably look through their website and figure it out.
If however they are accredited by someone even locally or regionally than the experience will count as IE experience, though the risk is often greater that some IS on the circuit will do the coin flip and determine the experience doesnt count for them. This happens, some lower tier ISs are entirely cost focused, and if they can get you cheaper they likely get a bonus or at least get to keep their job by keeping costs down.
So yes, you likely can use this to transition to other better ISs.

I have to reinforce the forum consensus that going to teach in a DS is highly advised. Even if the coin wasnt there, the reality is that ISs and IE in general is not resourced or mentored very well to provide the "apprenticeship" a noob IT/DT needs. So much of the job is very different from what you are trained to do, and IE expects you to it the ground running with little to no hand holding. Parents pay significant coin in fees for their children to get the best education they can afford, and not serve as a lab for a noob IT to make their bones. Your first year as a DT is just muddling through it, you have two objectives: content delivery and classroom management, and you really dont have the tools to do both of them to any level of competence. Your second year is doing the second objective you neglected during the first year. DE is prepared for that, extra prep time, a mentor, leadership that understands the growing pains, etc..

I dont entirely agree with @joe30, while salaries in the UK are generally dreadful, it depends where you are in the US. Starting salaries for a first year IT hover around $50K in major cities, compared to the average salary in IE (China) of $30K, and much lower when you are looking at LCSA (as low as $15K). Even after taxes thats better than the average total comp you find in IE. There are some other advantages such as being able to coach a sport competitively and gaining that experience. That and teaching PE is not like teaching a class of remedial maths and trying to push, pull, drag students across some benchmark high stakes assessment. Enrichment DTs generally have a much more relaxed time than core academic DTs. At most the biggest headache you will ahve is once or twice a year leadership will do a drive by to make sure the state obesity/nutrition/etc.. mandates are somewhere in your lesson, and you arent torturing kids.
joe30
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:10 am

Re: Reply

Post by joe30 »

PsyGuy wrote:

> I have to reinforce the forum consensus that going to teach in a DS is
> highly advised. Even if the coin wasnt there, the reality is that ISs and
> IE in general is not resourced or mentored very well to provide the
> "apprenticeship" a noob IT/DT needs. So much of the job is very
> different from what you are trained to do, and IE expects you to it the
> ground running with little to no hand holding. Parents pay significant coin
> in fees for their children to get the best education they can afford, and
> not serve as a lab for a noob IT to make their bones. Your first year as a
> DT is just muddling through it, you have two objectives: content delivery
> and classroom management, and you really dont have the tools to do both of
> them to any level of competence. Your second year is doing the second
> objective you neglected during the first year. DE is prepared for that,
> extra prep time, a mentor, leadership that understands the growing pains,
> etc..
>

Didn't we establish in a very recent thread that you actually get more prep time at an IS than a DS? A teacher in the UK is expected to teach 90% timetable, if you're an an NQT it's 80% - giving the NQT 3 hours of prep time a week, whereas the normal teacher (remember you're only an NQT for a year) gets 90 mins.

And I'll tell you now having a 'mentor' can be as much of a downside as an upside. If you get a good mentor that's valuable. A bad mentor will make your life hell. I've had both types so far on my PGCE.

Leadership in a DS, like anywhere, can vary from understanding and hand holding, to overly-critical complete nutjobs who expect you to work 12 hours a day 'for the benefit of the kids'.

And you can't just brush the salary issue under the table like it's not important. We're not talking about a couple of thousand extra here. A UK NQT could easily earn double what they could do at home, when factoring in taxes and the value of accomodation abroad. If you can actually earn $50,000 as a first year teacher in the US my salary point has less weight there admittedly, but for UK teachers it's a huge reason to go abroad right away.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@Joe30

In the UK without a doubt, you get more prep time in IE than you would in a DS. The LW is from the US though, and the average prep time in the US for a DT is about the same as it would be in IE, which is going to be lunch plus a one hour prep period. In some cases this is established by statute or regulation.

I also agree you can have a great mentor experience and you can have an absolute abysmal one, most DTs would get an okay one. Aggregate the good mentors, and the okay mentors and those would be better than no mentor at all. You can always avoid an bad, abysmal mentor with varying degrees of success.

Fully concur you can get total wack job nut cases in leadership anywhere, and some of them are actually an inspiration to work with both in DE and IE.

This is a sample of the starting (step 1, BA) salary schedules from coast to coast in some of the most popular regions:

Los Angeles: $50,368
http://achieve.lausd.net/cms/lib08/CA01 ... le_1-6.pdf

New York City: $51,650
http://schools.nyc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/271 ... rs5116.pdf

Boston: $52,632
https://btu.org/contract-highlights/201 ... -contract/

Houston: $51,500
http://www.houstonisd.org/cms/lib2/TX01 ... edules.pdf

Its entirely possible to earn far less there are still DTs in the US making $30K, but its not difficult to find $50K in the US.
joe30
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:10 am

Re: Fresh certification, but no experience....help!!!

Post by joe30 »

It sounds like the situation is significantly better for US teachers than UK ones.

For UK teachers specifically, I don't think it's sustainable that it's better to do 2 years domestic teaching first. Salary, work-life balance, prep time...all lower in a UK school than the vast majority of IS's.

Ease of avoiding a bad mentor depends on the school. Certainly in your PGCE year there's no avoiding them at all, as they're likely the class teacher, and so you'll be spending several hours with them each day. It's better on the NQT year since you wouldn't be interacting with them as much, but a toxic workplace environment ruins any sort of job. Likely in a large school they'd be easier to avoid. If you're in some small village school with 100 kids in the whole place...yeah, good luck...
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