mamava wrote:
> Our very first experience/trip/post out of the US was Tanzania with 3 kids, ages
> 3, 6, and 10. We weren't teachers in our jobs, but our kids went to the international
> school. The thing that saved us was our relationships with people that weren't
> teachers--we had lots of teacher friends (it was small tight community) but it was
> the relationships with people who had lived in TZ long long term that supported
> us. Africa is a beautiful amazing place, but it is also brutal and harsh. There
> were many times I thought about a car accident, an injury....something that would
> become life-threatening just because we didn't have access to top-notch health care.
> Having friendships with people who had raised kids and undergone serious situations
> gave us hope and support.
>
> Our kids roamed wild and free. They played outdoors all day. They interacted with
> multi-generational families at virtually all social events. They learned how to
> weather hurdles with strength and grace. More than any other place we've lived,
> they learned to live cheek to cheek with local cultures, with poverty, and with
> hardship--and learn how to live with joy I would not trade my 3 years with my kids
> there for anything, and it remains the best place of our lives, even with the things
> that happened. We have friends in Kenya, Ethiopia, Mozambique, Uganda, and South
> Africa who say the very same thing. It's not for everyone for sure, but it's a
> great place with chidlren.
Mamava said it all. Well put.
Africa with small kids
Re: Africa with small kids
What is more important, an exciting life for you or safety for your children?
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peachestotulips
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:24 am
Re: Africa with small kids
Mamava said it all really. There are several schools in Tanzania that are quality schools, and very family oriented. The water was safe to drink on the campus and at housing on campus at the school I was at. The local, western-run hospital was a five minute drive away. It was a fantastic environment for children as they were out playing all day, had tremendous learning experiences with the local culture, and an expanded community as many of the international schools in Tanzania come together frequently for sporting events.
However, Tanzania has just put restrictions on the ex-pats who come to work in the country. At the moment teachers can only work there for a maximum of 4 years. Definitely ask about it if interviewed at any schools in Tanzania. I'm actually trying to go back in two years or so! I loved it there.
However, Tanzania has just put restrictions on the ex-pats who come to work in the country. At the moment teachers can only work there for a maximum of 4 years. Definitely ask about it if interviewed at any schools in Tanzania. I'm actually trying to go back in two years or so! I loved it there.
Re: Africa with small kids
"What is more important, an exciting life for you or safety for your children?"
RIght. Because EVERY SINGLE PERSON that chooses the continent of Africa puts their children in mortal peril.....
That's the thing that this forum misses all the time. The decisions that people make for themselves are THEIR decisions. Whatever the conditions...safety, salary, pollution, school quality, etc. etc. etc...the best that everyone can do is collect information and then make the best decision for themselves. Too often this forum berates people who have different ideas or who make different decisions based on their own personal circumstances. Africa is NOT for everyone...we were missionaries there and in the 3 years we were there we saw a number of families flame out and leave because the dream was nothing in the face of the reality. Others survive and thrive. Having lived in TZ, China, and Saudi--three areas that have gotten no end of derision and criticism on this forum--I can only say that that we listened, read, thought, prayed, and then moved forward with what we believed to be the best for us. Very traumatic things have happened to us along the way and yet we haven't said "crap I wish we weren't here" in any situation. Rather than being snarky, wouldn't it be better to just say what your actual experience was and then let the people who are asking collect information and make the best decision for themselves....
RIght. Because EVERY SINGLE PERSON that chooses the continent of Africa puts their children in mortal peril.....
That's the thing that this forum misses all the time. The decisions that people make for themselves are THEIR decisions. Whatever the conditions...safety, salary, pollution, school quality, etc. etc. etc...the best that everyone can do is collect information and then make the best decision for themselves. Too often this forum berates people who have different ideas or who make different decisions based on their own personal circumstances. Africa is NOT for everyone...we were missionaries there and in the 3 years we were there we saw a number of families flame out and leave because the dream was nothing in the face of the reality. Others survive and thrive. Having lived in TZ, China, and Saudi--three areas that have gotten no end of derision and criticism on this forum--I can only say that that we listened, read, thought, prayed, and then moved forward with what we believed to be the best for us. Very traumatic things have happened to us along the way and yet we haven't said "crap I wish we weren't here" in any situation. Rather than being snarky, wouldn't it be better to just say what your actual experience was and then let the people who are asking collect information and make the best decision for themselves....
Re: Africa with small kids
It appears I have touched a nerve. All I gave was my humble opinion.
I don't agree with your suggestion of telling other forum members what they should write.
Each to their own I guess.
I don't agree with your suggestion of telling other forum members what they should write.
Each to their own I guess.
Response
The only locations in Africa that are worth going to as an IT is JBurg/Cape Town, and thats more so with young children.
Ive stated this before and the same contributors have argued against it. My experience is that ITs who go to Africa think its going to be some Disney safari adventure where your children grow-up in the world with a unique perspective on humanity and nature, a holistic eco globalism, instead of living their young lives attached to "screens". I rarely see that happen, its usually a long term lesson in over coming adversity and "building character" as a mask for what is otherwise hardship. All of those adventures sound great until you have a life threatening emergency and then medical aid is half a day away. From there its just a daily test of your internal fortitude. Some ITs thrive on that, Im not one of them. Africa is a third world country and its earned that designation, that fact is part of everyday life and your going to be living it. Its everything from stable electricity and internet to availability of imports.
Only of the most common pluses/pros/advantages is the "safari" aspect, the nature, the wild life, the living on the savanna, its over glamorized, and you dont need to live in it to experience it. Take the kids on that safari during holiday and they can watch a lion hunt down a gazelle, or a cheetah streaking across the plan, and they can pet the elephants (by the way Hippos are mean, like snarly, ornery, kill you for the sake of removing your existence from their view mean). You can get all the best out of Africa or what most ITs think Africa is on holiday. The benefits just dont outweigh the costs, some ITs want that challenge, again Im not one of them.
Oh and nine year olds and everyone else can get AK assault weapons everywhere.
Ive stated this before and the same contributors have argued against it. My experience is that ITs who go to Africa think its going to be some Disney safari adventure where your children grow-up in the world with a unique perspective on humanity and nature, a holistic eco globalism, instead of living their young lives attached to "screens". I rarely see that happen, its usually a long term lesson in over coming adversity and "building character" as a mask for what is otherwise hardship. All of those adventures sound great until you have a life threatening emergency and then medical aid is half a day away. From there its just a daily test of your internal fortitude. Some ITs thrive on that, Im not one of them. Africa is a third world country and its earned that designation, that fact is part of everyday life and your going to be living it. Its everything from stable electricity and internet to availability of imports.
Only of the most common pluses/pros/advantages is the "safari" aspect, the nature, the wild life, the living on the savanna, its over glamorized, and you dont need to live in it to experience it. Take the kids on that safari during holiday and they can watch a lion hunt down a gazelle, or a cheetah streaking across the plan, and they can pet the elephants (by the way Hippos are mean, like snarly, ornery, kill you for the sake of removing your existence from their view mean). You can get all the best out of Africa or what most ITs think Africa is on holiday. The benefits just dont outweigh the costs, some ITs want that challenge, again Im not one of them.
Oh and nine year olds and everyone else can get AK assault weapons everywhere.
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
Re: Africa with small kids
PsyGuy wrote:
> Africa is a third world country
This is a bit much, even for you.
> Africa is a third world country
This is a bit much, even for you.
Reply
@chilagringa
Dont see why its a widely accepted position that Africa is one of the third world regions. Many of the countries in Africa are listed as developing nations by the UN. Yes, I know Africa is a continent composed of countries, and not in itself a country, meh.
Dont see why its a widely accepted position that Africa is one of the third world regions. Many of the countries in Africa are listed as developing nations by the UN. Yes, I know Africa is a continent composed of countries, and not in itself a country, meh.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Africa with small kids
J'burg has a pretty high crime rate. It is one of the less safe places in Africa in that respect.
Africa is a big place, so you would have to research individual countries and schools. People who lived there often really love it, but those speaking out against it on here are the people who have a) never lived there, and b) prefer urban/modern to anything that might be different.
Nobody expects teaching in Africa to be "pet the elephants." But hey, if you think that safaris are all there are to Africa, your loss.
Africa is a big place, so you would have to research individual countries and schools. People who lived there often really love it, but those speaking out against it on here are the people who have a) never lived there, and b) prefer urban/modern to anything that might be different.
Nobody expects teaching in Africa to be "pet the elephants." But hey, if you think that safaris are all there are to Africa, your loss.
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
Re: Africa with small kids
I knew a family that lived in Zimbabwe for maybe 4 years. They moved there when the kids were about 6 and 8. They loooooved it there and the kids missed it dreadfully when they left.
Re: Africa with small kids
We lived in Tanzania for 3 years and were never subjected to war or famine. There are some diseases there that we had to careful of, but as Westerners we were well-vaccinated and had no problems with health there. We filtered our own water, but you could buy it bottled, just as people do in many countries around the world. We weren't teachers, but the school had generators so teachers had access to internet there. We did have to work through very frequent electrical shortages. We are not hippies, we don't want to be one with nature, and being able to go on safari (which is not really that inexpensive, even if you live there) would not be in the top 10 reasons we loved it.
There's hardship for sure, but no one on this forum has ever expressed what the real hardships are there, possibly because people commenting may not have lived there. We have good friends at both Ethiopia and South Africa who traded elite Tier 1 Asian schools for life there because it met their needs.
If you have lived in an African country and have personal experience, your information would be really helpful to people trying make that decision to go. If you haven't you should just take a freaking pass on the thread.
There's hardship for sure, but no one on this forum has ever expressed what the real hardships are there, possibly because people commenting may not have lived there. We have good friends at both Ethiopia and South Africa who traded elite Tier 1 Asian schools for life there because it met their needs.
If you have lived in an African country and have personal experience, your information would be really helpful to people trying make that decision to go. If you haven't you should just take a freaking pass on the thread.
Re: Africa with small kids
I think we should accept all opinions in a civil manner, no need to try and limit opinions.
Africa is known for tyrants, coincidence?
Africa is known for tyrants, coincidence?
Re: Africa with small kids
@mamava
Why should we - just so you can close your eyes and ears to alternative opinion? The fact is that the vast majority of negative opinion is going to come from people who haven't lived there, simply because the majority of IT's would never even consider moving to Africa. The ones that do are generally the...umm...shall we say eccentric/alternative types.
No child wants to live somewhere that the water isn't clean, the internet doesn't work regularly, and they can't play outside because of the risk of getting kidnapped.
Why should we - just so you can close your eyes and ears to alternative opinion? The fact is that the vast majority of negative opinion is going to come from people who haven't lived there, simply because the majority of IT's would never even consider moving to Africa. The ones that do are generally the...umm...shall we say eccentric/alternative types.
No child wants to live somewhere that the water isn't clean, the internet doesn't work regularly, and they can't play outside because of the risk of getting kidnapped.
Re: Africa with small kids
Hi everyone! OP here. Thank you for your responses. I really appreciate especially those that spoke about specific locations.
PsyGuy, South Africa is out for us as explained in the OP. I mean, if people disagree with what our family member told us, I'm open to that--I'm not going to base any decisions on what just one person says, as far as possible.
I personally have been interested in eastern Africa for some time and quite honestly didn't even consider the "safari" aspect. But I also do want the experience to overall be positive for the kiddos. So my priorities are a generally safe community (as safe as you find in most US cities, which isn't always extraordinarily safe, you know? But the kind of thing where if you know the spots to avoid, you're okay), and not too much risk of exposure to diseases you can't get vaccinated against, like malaria. We've ruled out Malaysia for that reason. It would be nice if in terms of hardship, it was a rare-ish occurrence. So based on that, would anyone be willing to revisit the lists of places already mentioned and narrow them down a little? Doesn't have to be eastern Africa at all.
PsyGuy, South Africa is out for us as explained in the OP. I mean, if people disagree with what our family member told us, I'm open to that--I'm not going to base any decisions on what just one person says, as far as possible.
I personally have been interested in eastern Africa for some time and quite honestly didn't even consider the "safari" aspect. But I also do want the experience to overall be positive for the kiddos. So my priorities are a generally safe community (as safe as you find in most US cities, which isn't always extraordinarily safe, you know? But the kind of thing where if you know the spots to avoid, you're okay), and not too much risk of exposure to diseases you can't get vaccinated against, like malaria. We've ruled out Malaysia for that reason. It would be nice if in terms of hardship, it was a rare-ish occurrence. So based on that, would anyone be willing to revisit the lists of places already mentioned and narrow them down a little? Doesn't have to be eastern Africa at all.
Discussion
@Thames Pirate
JBurg has a high crime rate because theres materials worth stealing and expats with coin. Not a big market for hut mud. Lived in Africa.
@chilagringa
I have no doubt they loved it there, but if theyed been in Moscow, or Geneva, or Paris, etc. they probably would have loved it there too. Four years, kids 6 and 8 meaning when they got there would have probably loved anything if it didnt hurt them. You can give kids that age an empty box and some markers and theyll love it.
@mamava
Vaccines are not a guarantee, you dont get vaccinated against even influenza and then you are guaranteed not getting influenza, and while more people died of Influenza than say Ebola (but a lot more died from Cholera), I dont want any of them and the best practice is to eliminate, or limit exposure. Not around people with Ebola and you drastically cut your probability of getting Ebola.
How does having a generator give you access to the internet? Generators provide electricity, not data.
I like stable electricity.
For a lot of expats safari is what they see as the positive side of Africa.
Lived in Africa.
None of our contributors require your consent or counsel to post. You dont get to delimit the only viable experiences as those who have lived there for X amount of time.
@OzGrad
Well the US has a current tyrant, and Germany had a pretty historically popular one for a while. Lets not forget Britain either they were pretty tyrannical for a LONG time.
@Nutella
I completely understand I dont endorse S.Africa as a whole, Im specifically suggesting Capetown and JBurg. These are some of the most affluent areas, have the strongest European influence, and are more or less "civilized". Its not the rest of S.Africa and its not the rest of Africa in general. These locations are like living in a compound/enclave in the ME.
JBurg has a high crime rate because theres materials worth stealing and expats with coin. Not a big market for hut mud. Lived in Africa.
@chilagringa
I have no doubt they loved it there, but if theyed been in Moscow, or Geneva, or Paris, etc. they probably would have loved it there too. Four years, kids 6 and 8 meaning when they got there would have probably loved anything if it didnt hurt them. You can give kids that age an empty box and some markers and theyll love it.
@mamava
Vaccines are not a guarantee, you dont get vaccinated against even influenza and then you are guaranteed not getting influenza, and while more people died of Influenza than say Ebola (but a lot more died from Cholera), I dont want any of them and the best practice is to eliminate, or limit exposure. Not around people with Ebola and you drastically cut your probability of getting Ebola.
How does having a generator give you access to the internet? Generators provide electricity, not data.
I like stable electricity.
For a lot of expats safari is what they see as the positive side of Africa.
Lived in Africa.
None of our contributors require your consent or counsel to post. You dont get to delimit the only viable experiences as those who have lived there for X amount of time.
@OzGrad
Well the US has a current tyrant, and Germany had a pretty historically popular one for a while. Lets not forget Britain either they were pretty tyrannical for a LONG time.
@Nutella
I completely understand I dont endorse S.Africa as a whole, Im specifically suggesting Capetown and JBurg. These are some of the most affluent areas, have the strongest European influence, and are more or less "civilized". Its not the rest of S.Africa and its not the rest of Africa in general. These locations are like living in a compound/enclave in the ME.