@Thames Pirate
Your experience isnt congruent with mine. You either are at "home" saving on housing living costs and paying tuition or youve got much lower tuition in the EU but have much higher living costs. Its 6 of one or half a dozen of the other. We disagree the English programs have higher tuition fees.
English is not a Germanic language its in the same family as the Romance languages as its basis are in Latin. Norwegian, Finnish, Swedish, my friends from IE camp say its very difficult to learn.
Its not cheaper fees and living cost in the EU would be about the same as resident tuition and living at home, and again assuming you find such an English program, which outside the UK for a first degree program is much harder to find.
Affording College Costs in the US
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Thames Pirate
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Re: Affording College Costs in the US
Well, since German unis have NO tuition, yes, they have lower tuition. I did say the price tag is in cost of living, but you will pay that anywhere that isn't at home. Yes, finding an English language program is a bit of a challenge depending on country, area of study, etc. So each family will need to do their own math. The idea here is to help the OP find options.
But sure, you can be right on this if it makes you happy. The OP can now do research and figure out what works best for them.
And of course English is a Germanic language. It does have a heavy infusion of Romance due to William the Conqueror bringing over his French, but the language comes from the Saxons. Do you know where Saxony is? Hint: The modern state of Saxony has a capital city called Dresden. English is a Germanic language, which is part of the Indo-European language family. If you look at the foreign service ranking, it categorises Norwegian as a level 1 (easiest) to learn. Swedish is also in this category. Finnish, however, is a weird one--not Indo-European, but Uralic. It is a category 4, and it is not closely related to Swedish or Norwegian.
But sure, you can be right on this if it makes you happy. The OP can now do research and figure out what works best for them.
And of course English is a Germanic language. It does have a heavy infusion of Romance due to William the Conqueror bringing over his French, but the language comes from the Saxons. Do you know where Saxony is? Hint: The modern state of Saxony has a capital city called Dresden. English is a Germanic language, which is part of the Indo-European language family. If you look at the foreign service ranking, it categorises Norwegian as a level 1 (easiest) to learn. Swedish is also in this category. Finnish, however, is a weird one--not Indo-European, but Uralic. It is a category 4, and it is not closely related to Swedish or Norwegian.
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@Thames Pirate
Yours isnt an option with a difference, either you need to speak the local language or pay higher comparable tuition costs or you study abroad and pay living costs or you study at home and dont.
English is not a Germanic language it is a Romance language (its actually in the category of special romance languages). I know where Saxony was, English is a (special) Romance language. I am familiar with the DOS rankings, Norwegian is not an easy language to learn.
There are simply two schools of thought one that English is largely based on Latin (64% of the vocabulary is Latin and only 12% Germanic) and therefor a Romance language and the school of thought that English is a Germanic language because of how grammatical structure (mostly based on verb arrangement). There is a lot of disagreement on particles and proto-words, and loan words vs. universals.
Go learn Norwegian then and tell us how easy it is, i never have and the people I know that did (to some level of fluency) described the process as very draining and difficult.
Yours isnt an option with a difference, either you need to speak the local language or pay higher comparable tuition costs or you study abroad and pay living costs or you study at home and dont.
English is not a Germanic language it is a Romance language (its actually in the category of special romance languages). I know where Saxony was, English is a (special) Romance language. I am familiar with the DOS rankings, Norwegian is not an easy language to learn.
There are simply two schools of thought one that English is largely based on Latin (64% of the vocabulary is Latin and only 12% Germanic) and therefor a Romance language and the school of thought that English is a Germanic language because of how grammatical structure (mostly based on verb arrangement). There is a lot of disagreement on particles and proto-words, and loan words vs. universals.
Go learn Norwegian then and tell us how easy it is, i never have and the people I know that did (to some level of fluency) described the process as very draining and difficult.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: Affording College Costs in the US
Corrections:
You can study tuition free in a number of places. Cost of living is your problem. Meeting program requirements (including language) is your problem. Germany, France, and Norway are good places to begin your search.
According to linguists, English is Germanic. Saxony "was" not in Germany; it still is.
Norwegian is also Germanic and has many similar linguistic features to English. This makes it easier to learn for native English speakers than many other languages, though of course learning a language is always "draining and difficult". Just less so than, say, Finnish. And it's not a DOS ranking, it's a foreign service grouping or categorization. It's category 1.
There are no two schools of thought on language family. English is Germanic despite its heavy romance influence. This is because languages are grouped by origin rather than vocab or grammar or loan words. This origin often gives them related vocab/grammar, but languages evolve over time, particularly through outside influence and isolation, eventually becoming distinct.
You can study tuition free in a number of places. Cost of living is your problem. Meeting program requirements (including language) is your problem. Germany, France, and Norway are good places to begin your search.
According to linguists, English is Germanic. Saxony "was" not in Germany; it still is.
Norwegian is also Germanic and has many similar linguistic features to English. This makes it easier to learn for native English speakers than many other languages, though of course learning a language is always "draining and difficult". Just less so than, say, Finnish. And it's not a DOS ranking, it's a foreign service grouping or categorization. It's category 1.
There are no two schools of thought on language family. English is Germanic despite its heavy romance influence. This is because languages are grouped by origin rather than vocab or grammar or loan words. This origin often gives them related vocab/grammar, but languages evolve over time, particularly through outside influence and isolation, eventually becoming distinct.
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@Thames Pirate
Not corrections.
1) All costs are your problem. Coin is coin whether you give it one label or another. To that end everything is your problem, including language requirements. Thank you for agreeing with me.
2) According to other linguists English is a Romance language, not Germanic. I agree with this school of thought. We disagree.
3) Norwegian is Germanic, which is why its difficult for romance language speakers such as English to learn. French is far easier for English speakers to learn than Norwegian.
4) The DOS operates the foreign service.
5) There are two schools of thought. English is Romance language with some Germanic influence. Origin is your schools criteria, vocabulary and root words is another criteria, and why English is a Romance language based off of Latin.
6) Yes, language evolves, water is also wet.
Not corrections.
1) All costs are your problem. Coin is coin whether you give it one label or another. To that end everything is your problem, including language requirements. Thank you for agreeing with me.
2) According to other linguists English is a Romance language, not Germanic. I agree with this school of thought. We disagree.
3) Norwegian is Germanic, which is why its difficult for romance language speakers such as English to learn. French is far easier for English speakers to learn than Norwegian.
4) The DOS operates the foreign service.
5) There are two schools of thought. English is Romance language with some Germanic influence. Origin is your schools criteria, vocabulary and root words is another criteria, and why English is a Romance language based off of Latin.
6) Yes, language evolves, water is also wet.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: Affording College Costs in the US
Linguists categorize English as Germanic. Norwegian is category 1, along with a few other Germanic languages such as Dutch. Romance languages like French are also category 1 because the grammar and syntax are similar to most Germanic languages. There are not two schools of thought in linguistics when it comes to language families. Origin counts. But hey, if you want cognates, try good morning/god morgen, house/hus, etc.
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@Thames Pirate
There are two schools of thought, other linguists categorize English as a romance language. Your list of categories is just one organizations 9the Foreign Service) subjective opinion on degree of difficulty. Germanic languages are also similar to Romance languages, of Which English is one of them. This is how similes work. Origin counts more for your school of thought. Mine it doesnt.
There are two schools of thought, other linguists categorize English as a romance language. Your list of categories is just one organizations 9the Foreign Service) subjective opinion on degree of difficulty. Germanic languages are also similar to Romance languages, of Which English is one of them. This is how similes work. Origin counts more for your school of thought. Mine it doesnt.
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Thames Pirate
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Re: Affording College Costs in the US
English is a Germanic language. It's really not up for debate, even if there are credible ties to the Romance languages.
Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language, within a family of languages with less recognition factor. It is hard to for English speakers to learn. This language family is indeed undergoing discussion about whether it really is a true language family. But for now, it is officially Finno-Ugric.
Norwegian is a Germanic language. It is not so difficult for English speakers to learn - I've given it a try and found it on par with Spanish and French.
And so what? Attending university in any of these languages would be beyond most high school graduates unless they had been studying it for quite some time. Learning one of these language between high school and university just means another year or more of school. A silly trade to make.
Please, put this petty fight about language families to the side.
Finnish is a Finno-Ugric language, within a family of languages with less recognition factor. It is hard to for English speakers to learn. This language family is indeed undergoing discussion about whether it really is a true language family. But for now, it is officially Finno-Ugric.
Norwegian is a Germanic language. It is not so difficult for English speakers to learn - I've given it a try and found it on par with Spanish and French.
And so what? Attending university in any of these languages would be beyond most high school graduates unless they had been studying it for quite some time. Learning one of these language between high school and university just means another year or more of school. A silly trade to make.
Please, put this petty fight about language families to the side.
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@Sid
English is a romance language, 67% of the vocabulary is from Latin. Yes there is a debate and disagreement, hence two different schools of thought.
I agree with your claim on Finnish, Norwegian is a Germanic language its difficult to learn, at least from the sources I know who have studied it. Ive only looked at Norwegian briefly, and being a french speaker Id have a much more difficult time learning Norwegian than i did with French.
Agreed but some students planing ahead and anticipating an inexpensive Uni education may very well begin studying a FL early enough to be proficient to handle 1st degree study, and the data suggests that this is increasing.
English is a romance language, 67% of the vocabulary is from Latin. Yes there is a debate and disagreement, hence two different schools of thought.
I agree with your claim on Finnish, Norwegian is a Germanic language its difficult to learn, at least from the sources I know who have studied it. Ive only looked at Norwegian briefly, and being a french speaker Id have a much more difficult time learning Norwegian than i did with French.
Agreed but some students planing ahead and anticipating an inexpensive Uni education may very well begin studying a FL early enough to be proficient to handle 1st degree study, and the data suggests that this is increasing.
Re: Affording College Costs in the US
To the original question, while it's true that college and university in the US is ridiculously expensive and its possible to find schools in other countries - what if your child wants to go 'home' and be close to family? Hopefully you know that most, if not all, private colleges and universities in the US offer financial aid, often enough to put the costs in a more affordable range than public institutions.
Some exceptional schools are not only completely need blind but guarantee that students who earn admission will be able to attend regardless of financial situation. I had a student several years ago who had applied to Harvard just for bragging rights as he had no way to pay for it; he got in and they offered him so much aid he couldn't afford not to go - he paid 6k per year room, board and tuition (this was 7 years ago). I had another student admitted to a great liberal arts college in the midwest with the same policy - a school that cost around 50k per year - have her bill reduced to 2k. Good college counselors will know which schools have this policy, or an internet search will probably do.
While other private schools may not have the funds to guarantee the above, they recognize the need to attract students and offer aid. Our youngest son attends a good, well-established private liberal arts college that is about 50K per year full price. They first offered him 15K aid per year; he wrote and thanked them politely but said that wouldn't be enough as his parents were teachers so he would have to look elsewhere. They doubled it plus a bit, and he has maintained that aid now into his 4th year. This was all grants, btw, no loans - he also qualified for about 10k per year in loans, but we had him decline those as we could handle it. Some of it is earned money with a work/study job, one which pays him $15 per hour and teaches him valuable skills at the same time. This school ended up being less money for us than having him attend a small state public school. He was offered the same deal at another private school, similar costs, further away from home, but chose this one to be closer to relatives and save on travel. We have friends whose children also 'shopped' the best financial aid. It's okay to ask the schools for more than the initial offer - even if they say no, nothing lost.
Aid is based on your FAFSA report of taxable income. As overseas educators, we don't earn enough to have taxable income - I'm aware that some do, but not us. We have always been 100% honest with the school and all income forms; they know what our annual income is and they know we own a home in the US. Still, as that one category in the FAFSA is the main determinate for aid, our score of zero has through the years gotten our children aid well over $200k. That being said, it is true that their U.S. schools were still stupid expensive, and we paid far more than was reasonable even with aid. One child did look to Canada, but as a foreigner, it was not a better deal than the private school with aid he ended up attending and graduating from.
Some exceptional schools are not only completely need blind but guarantee that students who earn admission will be able to attend regardless of financial situation. I had a student several years ago who had applied to Harvard just for bragging rights as he had no way to pay for it; he got in and they offered him so much aid he couldn't afford not to go - he paid 6k per year room, board and tuition (this was 7 years ago). I had another student admitted to a great liberal arts college in the midwest with the same policy - a school that cost around 50k per year - have her bill reduced to 2k. Good college counselors will know which schools have this policy, or an internet search will probably do.
While other private schools may not have the funds to guarantee the above, they recognize the need to attract students and offer aid. Our youngest son attends a good, well-established private liberal arts college that is about 50K per year full price. They first offered him 15K aid per year; he wrote and thanked them politely but said that wouldn't be enough as his parents were teachers so he would have to look elsewhere. They doubled it plus a bit, and he has maintained that aid now into his 4th year. This was all grants, btw, no loans - he also qualified for about 10k per year in loans, but we had him decline those as we could handle it. Some of it is earned money with a work/study job, one which pays him $15 per hour and teaches him valuable skills at the same time. This school ended up being less money for us than having him attend a small state public school. He was offered the same deal at another private school, similar costs, further away from home, but chose this one to be closer to relatives and save on travel. We have friends whose children also 'shopped' the best financial aid. It's okay to ask the schools for more than the initial offer - even if they say no, nothing lost.
Aid is based on your FAFSA report of taxable income. As overseas educators, we don't earn enough to have taxable income - I'm aware that some do, but not us. We have always been 100% honest with the school and all income forms; they know what our annual income is and they know we own a home in the US. Still, as that one category in the FAFSA is the main determinate for aid, our score of zero has through the years gotten our children aid well over $200k. That being said, it is true that their U.S. schools were still stupid expensive, and we paid far more than was reasonable even with aid. One child did look to Canada, but as a foreigner, it was not a better deal than the private school with aid he ended up attending and graduating from.
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@scribe
I dont disagree with your claims, institutional aid (the school discount) is the only real source of non-liability FA aside from a few scholarships (most of them crazy merit scholarships or endowed scholarships), Ive seen it countless times, but for everyone of those there is at least one and arguably more that are "admit-deny" where the student is admitted but without the FA to discount the tuition to something that particular students family can afford, $150K for a first year degree is a significant price tag for a student who is going to study comp lit at one of the seven sisters. All that said you would be really hard pressed to find tuition in the vast majority of cases that hoers around zero. OxBridge tuition for UK/EU residents (thats doesnt require you be a citizen) is a very comfortable £9K a year, and thats before scholarship, thats the cost of resident state tuition.
I dont disagree with your claims, institutional aid (the school discount) is the only real source of non-liability FA aside from a few scholarships (most of them crazy merit scholarships or endowed scholarships), Ive seen it countless times, but for everyone of those there is at least one and arguably more that are "admit-deny" where the student is admitted but without the FA to discount the tuition to something that particular students family can afford, $150K for a first year degree is a significant price tag for a student who is going to study comp lit at one of the seven sisters. All that said you would be really hard pressed to find tuition in the vast majority of cases that hoers around zero. OxBridge tuition for UK/EU residents (thats doesnt require you be a citizen) is a very comfortable £9K a year, and thats before scholarship, thats the cost of resident state tuition.
Re: Affording College Costs in the US
It can be around £14k a year for international students in the UK.
Plus it sorta goes without saying, most kids wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell at getting into Oxbridge.
I'd go with a program in the EU since if you don't have a UK address you won't be able to get the tuition fee loan (essentially making university free for IE's), and the EU is cheaper.
Plus it sorta goes without saying, most kids wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell at getting into Oxbridge.
I'd go with a program in the EU since if you don't have a UK address you won't be able to get the tuition fee loan (essentially making university free for IE's), and the EU is cheaper.
Re: Affording College Costs in the US
Thank you all for your valuable insight and feedback, with specific thanks to @mamava, @eion, and @scribe--it's obvious you've been through this process before!
Nice to know that there are private schools that will offer generous amounts of FA, but at the same time you won't really know what kind of FA a student will get until after he/she applies--and by then its too late to move and try to get in-state tuition at a school in that same year. We may have to consider a move back to the US by the time our kid reaches Grade 11 in order to establish residency. As a previous poster mentioned, an 18 year old attempting to establish residency can be tricky and not at all assured.
Like I mentioned in the original post, we still have some time to consider our options. I truly hope others who are in a similar situation find all of the feedback here helpful.
And to those of families out there who have EU citizenship or whose kids can speak a European language fluently, consider yourselves very fortunate in regards to university choice!
Nice to know that there are private schools that will offer generous amounts of FA, but at the same time you won't really know what kind of FA a student will get until after he/she applies--and by then its too late to move and try to get in-state tuition at a school in that same year. We may have to consider a move back to the US by the time our kid reaches Grade 11 in order to establish residency. As a previous poster mentioned, an 18 year old attempting to establish residency can be tricky and not at all assured.
Like I mentioned in the original post, we still have some time to consider our options. I truly hope others who are in a similar situation find all of the feedback here helpful.
And to those of families out there who have EU citizenship or whose kids can speak a European language fluently, consider yourselves very fortunate in regards to university choice!