Bizarre interview process, but great offer

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cms989
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by cms989 »

I'm a new IT in an oversaturated subject and have been recently having little success in my search.

However, I recently interviewed at an "international" (98% local) school. I was offered a position and the pay is great. The location is "undesirable" but to me really interesting, so win win. And it's an IB school.

Some red flags:

-I can find almost no information on this school from a teacher's perspective, except that it is legitimate.

-I was offered the job about 5 minutes into the Skype interview. I'm a good looking guy and think half of it was just appearance and being friendly.

-They offered me the position without terms. I had to ask what compensation and job duties were (still require some clarification on the last bit, all I know is the subject and level). Overall poor HR practices.

Counter red flags:

-It does have a website. It does have a legitimate organization backing it up and a sister school (under the same org) that is on ISR and gets decent ratings, including ok comments about the overall administration. I can find a few sets of non-professional photographs of children and teachers happily doing activities at the school I'd work at.

-I'm not sure if they've had foreign teachers before, maybe that explains the lack of info out there. Maybe they just have little/no process of hiring foreign teachers and see it as a box to tick, explaining the quick offer.

Honestly, as crazy as it sounds . . I like the location, the pay is awesome, and it's IB experience for my first job . . what's the worst that could happen? Given the overall org gets ok reviews on ISR I assume they will pay on time (comments say they will pay on time).
helloiswill
Posts: 75
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:39 am

Re: Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by helloiswill »

I don't have too much to say about this other than I agree with you that this sort of behavior in the interview process seems pretty "bizarre" relative to what I have experienced. Can you think of a reason why the school would be desperate? Usually, location alone is not enough to make a school bite your hand off to sign a contract, especially when, as you said, they pay well and are IB.

My Next Steps would be:

I think I remember from you previous posts they you are, like me certified in ESL. Ask if you can speak with another teacher who teaches in your content area or grade-level at the school. While they will undoubtedly say positive things, if you read closely you can probably figure out if it is genuine or if there is a gun to there head, so to speak.

See if you can find some information on the school from an expat forum specific to the city the school is in. You can usually find this some info after some detective work. This may be from the perspective of parents or community members but still may be useful.

Are you signed up with with Search or ISS? Ask your associate if they know anything about the school and mention the peculiar interview. On two instances my associate steered me away from a school because it probably "wasn't a good fit for me." It was pretty easy for me to pick up on the subtext behind this statement that read, this school is a crap place to be teaching.

Good luck and let us know what you uncover/decide!
cms989
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by cms989 »

@helloiswill Reasons? I have two theories, both of them just theories. One of them was that their instant offer was an attempt to trap me - I am with Search and a simple 'yes' verbal acceptance over Skype, from what I can tell, would open me up to some pretty heavy obligations to teach at the school. That theory is bunk because they followed through with a generous offer.

My second theory is that the director has little experience in overseas hires and can't be bothered with it. She may not be fully aware of the "rule" that my ESL experience is supposed to be useless according to Gods of IT (actually it's an asset at this school anyway). When she sees a friendly guy, knows my background, has my references (solid), that's enough. Maybe admin is somewhat hands off to boot. Under this theory I'd be going into a school where I'm something of a novelty/dime store curiosity but still getting access to some experience that looks good on my resume, and hopefully can enjoy myself. This is sort of my best reasonable expectation of working there.

I've already done some of the stuff you mentioned, and I think a previous teacher is a no-go, but didn't think to talk to my associate. Actually I assumed his motive would be to close the deal so he wouldn't be worth talking to, but according to your experience that isn't always the case.
joe30
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:10 am

Re: Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by joe30 »

If the money is fine and the location is somewhere you want, take it.

No one here is going to be able to give any guarantees unless you name the school. Location and money are really the only two things you can go off if it doesn't have any reviews. No review on this site is the same thing as a good review anyway, since people only post when they have something to complain about.
global_nomad
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by global_nomad »

Agree with Joe on this one. Don't question it too much- If it checks all your boxes as a newbie international teacher, jump on the opportunity. Worst thing that can happen is that you move on after 2 years (with the "magical" 2 years international experience that a lot of Tier 1 heads seem to covet) and IB experience at that.

I'm guessing that the reason they jumped on you is that you came across in the interview as friendly, professional, and fit the "profile" of what parents expect at that school. You interviewed well, in general, and it's getting late. You'd be surprised how many great international school teachers just don't come across well in interviews and as a result, lose opportunities.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by Thames Pirate »

I also agree with Joe. Nobody can give you guarantees, even with top reviews, etc. We went to a school where everything seemed fantastic only to find them in the midst of a leadership turnover that turned chaotic and led to all kinds of issues for the upper school staff (lower school principal did a great job of insulating the teachers). So if they pay you well and the location is good, it probably isn't bad to take a chance on them, especially if they also enhance your resume.

With our current job, they didn't jump on hiring us early in the interview, but it was obvious early on that they liked us enough that we were highly likely to get an offer. When they asked us to step outside for five minutes, we knew we were getting an offer. These were experienced recruiters, so they did see that we were a good fit but continued to ask questions that helped them make sure, for both them and us. So if you are a strong candidate (sounds like it) and what they want, I can see why a less experienced recruiter would decide and then immediately move forward.
senator
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:53 am

Re: Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by senator »

You're a "good looking guy"?

Teaching would be a hazard for you. You would have problems with all of your female students being too awed by your fantastic looks to pay attention in class and when their grades suffered, your teaching skills would be questioned. But, if your school head or principal were a woman, you could just use those stunningly good looks to "persuade" her to overlook this.

If I were you, I'd turn the job down and become an international male model - or gigolo. Put those good looks and "friendliness" to better use. You know, go the IM (International Male) route instead of the IB one.

Hope this was helpful.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by Thames Pirate »

It's not unreasonable for someone to be realistic about this being a factor. No need to be snarky. The OP came across as someone concerned with finding a legitimate, quality job. It's okay to be aware of one's positive attributes.

Then again, I did just reread Pride and Prejudice.

OP, yes, looks are a factor sometimes, especially if you are the token white guy. That means your face will grace the brochure and the website. Whatever. If you like the location, the pay is good, it's a resume booster, and the school seems real enough, then great! Cut your teeth, and if you don't like it, move on.
nathan61
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:08 pm

Re: Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by nathan61 »

How many confidential references did you give? I know some directors put a lot of stock in these references, certain things on your resume etc. We all know people who can talk the talk but are actually lazy teachers.

Do you think you are a good catch? Maybe you should be impressed with how clever these guys are for snatching you up so quickly. I was recently participating in interviews and within five minutes I felt like I had a pretty good feel for candidates. Not that anyone was offered a contract right away though.

And there is always that X factor where the director really likes something specific and unique on your resume and you are a shoe-in.
cms989
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Bizarre interview process, but great offer

Post by cms989 »

@nathan61 my references are awesome apparently, another school mentioned it. And yea I do uniquely fit into what they want especially if they aren't discounting some of my experience like more hardened ISs might. You might be on to something . . the other interview I had I didn't feel the questions or my answers accurately represented me as a teacher, and I find interviews in general poor tools of judging a candidate (though we're left with few alternatives).

Just an update; I got more info on the teaching schedule and whatnot and it made the whole thing seem more 'real' to me. So I'm pretty excited and think I'll accept after clearing up a couple more things.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Very little surprises me in IE, and this doesnt either.

1) Ive seen ITs hired because they were the first X number of white people who walked in the door, and its not just a single time.

2) Its very easy for things to "look" real to you. Showing you some paper with schedules on it, and enrollment rosters and all kinds of other documents are just paper. Websites can show whatever they want, the IS controlls the website. It doesnt mean anything when you have your feet on the ground. Have you looked at the IS on Google Earth, is there anything there?

3) You need to look at the contract, and really carefully and then picture yourself as the devil and how youd get out of it. An IS can make the coin and comp look great and then have it go south in so many ways. Something to look for is an over prevalence of "reimbursement", this means you take all the risks and warranty everything about the vacancy.

4) Are they really an IB IS did you check, or are they an IB candidate? Do they really have this relationship with this organization backing it, are they really a sister IS of another IS. Whats the nature of the relationship? Does anyone at the sister IS know anything about the current IS. What happens is that the new IS pays a better IS to affiliate with them, and maybe they exchange some students every few years. Theres a pretty crummy bottom of the barrel IS thats affiliated with a decent CAN Uni and the IS is a train wreck.

5) You have to know that if they are this disorganized its going to be a lot of growing pains, which means challenges and lots and lots of work, that will never get compensated for. They didnt offer you no terms, they assumed you knew the terms, they would pay you and youd do whatever they told you too. This is a locally managed host nationals IS, depending on the region this could basically mean they own you 365/24/7.

Yes it sounds crazy, and im betting you like the offer because you havent had anything better to compare it too?

Only contracts matter, a verbal promise over Skype isnt enforceable by SA/ISS or anywhere for that matter. Leadership cant be hands off, if they liked you on paper why Skype with you at all. Just offer you the position, which they havent really offered you anything, and anything they offer you can vanish. You agree you never get a contract then two months later they withdraw the offer, you complain to SA and they just make up a reason.

Lastly, are there any other ulterior motives, your a good looking guy you say maybe the leadership is considering you as a son in law for his daughter, that wouldnt surprise me either.
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