This is one of those “How do we stack up?” questions.
My wife and I want to teach at an international school in within the next two years. We are currently full-time faculty for an American university that that has a cross-boarder program in China.
QUALIFCATIONS
-- 7 years teaching abroad (China) for an American university
-- ME: MA in TESOL
-- WIFE: MS in Instructional Technology, MFA in Creative writing
-- We will pursue licenses from Massachusetts or Wisconsin. Massachusetts will grant us licenses after passing the MTEL test (preliminary license). Wisconsin requires a teaching dossier and two years of full-time university teaching for licensure (License based on Equivalency Pathway).
-- We are both full-time university faculty for an American university with a cross-border program in China teaching Composition I and Composition II to Chinese university students who are earning their Chinese university degrees and American university degrees simultaneously.
-- Both of us have done academic research and have presented at international conferences, such as JALT and AsiaTEFL.
-- Both of us have led in-house PD workshops for the cross-border program.
GEOGRAPHIC PREFERENCES (in order)
-- Taiwan
-- Thailand
-- Japan
-- Malaysia
-- Hong Kong
-- Mainland China
-- We are open to Vietnam or Korea
STRIKES
-- No K-12 experience
-- We have a preschool-aged son
Ideally, we want to get hired by a decent (vague term, I know) school in one of the countries listed above. Our first choice is Taiwan because we speak Chinese and we have visited there several times.
Thanks.
University faculty transitioning to international schools
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eion_padraig
- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:18 pm
Re: University faculty transitioning to international school
It's not entirely clear from your post what you and your wife want to teach. Will you be looking to teach ESL and your wife teach English? What are your undergraduate degrees in? When are you looking to make the move? You'd need to move fast to get certification and get your job search underway if you're looking for a Fall 2017 job. It's not too late, but you'll need to get moving.
If you're both looking to teach the same subject that can be tough as there are usually a limit to the number of subject teachers needed. Also, some schools will be hesitant to have a married couple working in the same department in the same division.
University teaching, generally, isn't looked at in the same light as teaching in primary or secondary schools. While it's probably looked at a bit more favorably than teaching ESL in language schools or in foreign national schools, it's not probably far off. If the university is famous, big name one that's well regarded in the regions you're looking to teach, that might be a small advantage (NYU, Duke).
Some schools may not consider you to have their two year minimum teaching experience since your teaching experience was done with university aged students. You'll need to convince recruiters that you can adjust to students that are at a developmentally different stage. They'll want to know what experience you've had with your target age group, even if it's been through something like coaching or substitute teaching or running boy scouts (whatever).
The Chinese (I'm going to assume Mandarin and not something less uncommon) may help you more if you're working with a large number of students who are Chinese nationals or ethnically Chinese. The cultural understanding is a good angle to play up.
If you are both able to be hired to teach, one dependent kid shouldn't be a big issue unless the school doesn't have room at all for kids of teachers which is a bit unusual.
Taiwan, in my opinion, has one really good school, a couple of decent schools, but most of the rest are rather crummy places to work from what I've heard. People do like Taiwan, but you only hear them praise a handful of schools. There are more than 3 international schools, but the quality drops off quickly mostly in terms of the owners and administration.
You might be able to land at a decent place. Given where the jobs are and where people want to take jobs, you'll be more competitive in Mainland China, Vietnam, and Korea. Do you mind Christian schools? A lot of the Korean schools are Christian. Malaysia may be a bit easier because their economy has tanked and people are losing lots of money with the Ringet exchange rate tanking.
So a bit more information make help with people giving you more information. Opinions here will vary too. You'll probably need to work your way up like a lot of people do, but depending on how selective you are I'm sure you'd get offers. However, buyer beware. If you've made it to this forum, you're ahead of a lot of newbies.
Good luck.
Eion
If you're both looking to teach the same subject that can be tough as there are usually a limit to the number of subject teachers needed. Also, some schools will be hesitant to have a married couple working in the same department in the same division.
University teaching, generally, isn't looked at in the same light as teaching in primary or secondary schools. While it's probably looked at a bit more favorably than teaching ESL in language schools or in foreign national schools, it's not probably far off. If the university is famous, big name one that's well regarded in the regions you're looking to teach, that might be a small advantage (NYU, Duke).
Some schools may not consider you to have their two year minimum teaching experience since your teaching experience was done with university aged students. You'll need to convince recruiters that you can adjust to students that are at a developmentally different stage. They'll want to know what experience you've had with your target age group, even if it's been through something like coaching or substitute teaching or running boy scouts (whatever).
The Chinese (I'm going to assume Mandarin and not something less uncommon) may help you more if you're working with a large number of students who are Chinese nationals or ethnically Chinese. The cultural understanding is a good angle to play up.
If you are both able to be hired to teach, one dependent kid shouldn't be a big issue unless the school doesn't have room at all for kids of teachers which is a bit unusual.
Taiwan, in my opinion, has one really good school, a couple of decent schools, but most of the rest are rather crummy places to work from what I've heard. People do like Taiwan, but you only hear them praise a handful of schools. There are more than 3 international schools, but the quality drops off quickly mostly in terms of the owners and administration.
You might be able to land at a decent place. Given where the jobs are and where people want to take jobs, you'll be more competitive in Mainland China, Vietnam, and Korea. Do you mind Christian schools? A lot of the Korean schools are Christian. Malaysia may be a bit easier because their economy has tanked and people are losing lots of money with the Ringet exchange rate tanking.
So a bit more information make help with people giving you more information. Opinions here will vary too. You'll probably need to work your way up like a lot of people do, but depending on how selective you are I'm sure you'd get offers. However, buyer beware. If you've made it to this forum, you're ahead of a lot of newbies.
Good luck.
Eion
Response
Pretty low, you dont have two years post credentialing experience in a K12/KS environment (like many Uni faculty you make a big deal of your "University" experience, but its not worth much in IE). Youre research presentations arent worth anything and your in house PD isnt worth anything.
You will have an even harder time as ESOL is generally treated as poison in IE, and none of your experience is in a K12/KS environment. No ones going to want to touch you without any applicable experience.
You arent competitive at a decent IS, you are very solidly going to find whatever interest you find in third tier IS.
What a recruiter reads is they have two Uni lecturers who want to give their child a top IE education and you are willing to "teach" to get that for them until. Thats basically what is referred to as a tourist teacher.
Your routes are fine, youre working to hard though, get a initial credential from Utah and all you will need to do is take the PRAXIS which you can take in China and have fingerprints taken for a CRB. The UT credential is renewable, but its a moot point. What you will want to do is apply for QTS as soon as you get whatever credential you apply for. WI is way too much work.
Taiwan has 2 upper tier ISs a few floater third tier ISs and the rest are various degrees of poo.
Lots of people want to teach in Thailand and JP and HK are high desire regions. You rally just need to be open to anything in Asia that gets thrown your way. You will basically be intern class ITs.
I disagree with @eion_padraig, your undergraduate degrees/majors arent of much utility, even if you said maths science, design tech its not going to change much.
There isnt anything to really get ready, the premium agencies arent going to be receptive to your application, so really getting your resume together is a few hours. Getting your credential is whats going to take a few months.
You will have an even harder time as ESOL is generally treated as poison in IE, and none of your experience is in a K12/KS environment. No ones going to want to touch you without any applicable experience.
You arent competitive at a decent IS, you are very solidly going to find whatever interest you find in third tier IS.
What a recruiter reads is they have two Uni lecturers who want to give their child a top IE education and you are willing to "teach" to get that for them until. Thats basically what is referred to as a tourist teacher.
Your routes are fine, youre working to hard though, get a initial credential from Utah and all you will need to do is take the PRAXIS which you can take in China and have fingerprints taken for a CRB. The UT credential is renewable, but its a moot point. What you will want to do is apply for QTS as soon as you get whatever credential you apply for. WI is way too much work.
Taiwan has 2 upper tier ISs a few floater third tier ISs and the rest are various degrees of poo.
Lots of people want to teach in Thailand and JP and HK are high desire regions. You rally just need to be open to anything in Asia that gets thrown your way. You will basically be intern class ITs.
I disagree with @eion_padraig, your undergraduate degrees/majors arent of much utility, even if you said maths science, design tech its not going to change much.
There isnt anything to really get ready, the premium agencies arent going to be receptive to your application, so really getting your resume together is a few hours. Getting your credential is whats going to take a few months.
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
Re: University faculty transitioning to international school
A lot of people I know who transitioned from university to K-12 couldn't hack it. Some could, though! Just stay open to the fact that it's a totally different game.
Re: University faculty transitioning to international school
I agree with the Gringa.
The absolute worst teachers I ever had the misfortune to work with were either ex-engineers/scientists or university professors.
The incompetence combined with the dripping arrogance - many go into teaching because they can't hack their old jobs anymore and believe that any moron can teach - is amusing to watch. They rarely ask for help, as they all know so much more than everyone else, and NEVER share what they know - remnants from their back-stabbing days at university.
Once these fools realize that teaching high school or lower grade students requires that they actually be able to motivate and share their knowledge - rather than just have that knowledge - they wilt like daisies in the rain and hurry off with their tails between their legs.
Now, since you two state that you only have Master's degrees and are not REAL university professors, you may be able to do it.
By the way: We all have master's degrees now guys. And in hard core subjects, not TESOL.
The absolute worst teachers I ever had the misfortune to work with were either ex-engineers/scientists or university professors.
The incompetence combined with the dripping arrogance - many go into teaching because they can't hack their old jobs anymore and believe that any moron can teach - is amusing to watch. They rarely ask for help, as they all know so much more than everyone else, and NEVER share what they know - remnants from their back-stabbing days at university.
Once these fools realize that teaching high school or lower grade students requires that they actually be able to motivate and share their knowledge - rather than just have that knowledge - they wilt like daisies in the rain and hurry off with their tails between their legs.
Now, since you two state that you only have Master's degrees and are not REAL university professors, you may be able to do it.
By the way: We all have master's degrees now guys. And in hard core subjects, not TESOL.
Re: University faculty transitioning to international school
I have a pretty similar career path to what you are describing. My wife and I taught in a university for six years before realizing that we enjoy teaching younger kids way more. Went back to school to get a K-6 teaching certification and are now living in Southeast Asia. I had some ESL experience and included it in my resume. But like the other posters said, it really isn't too helpful. I tried to focus more on my student teaching experience in an international school that I had while getting certified.
When it came time to look for my first position my lack of experience was a huge limitation. We ended up at a school with great pay offset by a ton of serious problems (read lower tier 2). I put in my two years and just signed a contract for a much better school. If you are ok spending your first two years at a mediocre school like I did, then finding a position is no problem. Finding a school that will hire you AND give your child a descent education will be a bit tougher.
When it came time to look for my first position my lack of experience was a huge limitation. We ended up at a school with great pay offset by a ton of serious problems (read lower tier 2). I put in my two years and just signed a contract for a much better school. If you are ok spending your first two years at a mediocre school like I did, then finding a position is no problem. Finding a school that will hire you AND give your child a descent education will be a bit tougher.