I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

cms989
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm

I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by cms989 »

I have a CELTA and 2 years EFL teaching experience abroad, 1 in a decent (well known) language school. I know that counts for little but there it is.

I'm U.S. state-certified in history and my degree is in history. I have student teaching experience only.

After about 75 applications, mostly Search and some TIE, mostly history/social studies, I had 1 interview and got rejected. Since last year when I started applying, 3 of 4 of my interviews have been for schools in one ME country - not by choice I applied everywhere.

More recently I've been applying to ESL/EAL positions. I actually prefer it but before signing up for Search didn't think most IS hired them. I understand currently I'm not qualified for these positions but I figure if a school has a pull out or hybrid ESL program they might be interested. I understand these roles differ from a classroom EFL teacher in many cases, and are more learning support.

I actually really enjoy where I'm living now but am career-minded. I figure getting an M.Ed in TESOL would make me competitive for the EAL positions, move me up on pay scale should I go to the U.S., and make me more competitive in the U.S. I think I made sort of a wrong turn attempting to get into history and am dismayed at the reality of the job market that I would have to deal with for the rest of my career there. The M.Ed would also lead to state ESL endorsement (thought I could get that through simpler means). On a personal level I'm happy to keep living where I am.

Worst case I could get one of those university prep teaching positions in China that pay somewhere between a language school and an IS.

I'm posting this to get thoughts on my marketability (home or abroad) post-M.Ed or if I'll be back here in two years making the same post. Thanks for your thoughts

tl;dr how competitive is this person:

M.Ed C&I - TESOL

U.S. state certified - history; ESL

3-4 years EFL teaching experience, in a language school (I'd continue at my current school while studying)
Teach1010
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Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:25 am

Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by Teach1010 »

I think part of the problem is that you don't technically have two years of classroom teaching experience. As I'm sure you know, experience at a language school (even if it's well-known) doesn't count for much around here. Maybe consider teaching ESL full time at a public or private school in the US for two years. It shouldn't be hard to find a job in the US, especially if you're willing to consider all 50 states. You could probably even do Teach For America or a similar program and get your Master's paid for. If you did that while you got your M.Ed., you would have two years of experience and certification in two subject areas. That could be valuable to a smaller IS that doesn't have the enrollment to support hiring a full-time teacher in only history or only ESL. It probably won't be a Tier 1 school, but it might get you in the door somewhere and help you build your experience even more.
cms989
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by cms989 »

You make a good point. The problem is I'd have to pay $1,200+ to get ESOL certified because I'd have to fly back to the U.S. to take the exam. Yes, cheaper than a $10k M.Ed, but I plan on getting a master's someday anyway and my current position allows some good schedule flexibility to make that happen.

Theoretically I could get that first ESOL job in a year, halfway through my M.Ed also. I have personal reasons for not wanting to leave here too soon.

With that said I do think you've suggested what is the most efficient option career-wise.
cms989
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by cms989 »

Also it should be noted I don't really feel qualified for a learning support-type ESL role, I've only ever been a classroom teacher. So that's partly why I am interested in the M.Ed as well.
chilagringa
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm

Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by chilagringa »

You might be luckier later in the hiring season. Right out of my teacher training, I got offered three different jobs in three countries... one in February, on in April and one in May. I ended up turning them down to do a year domestically, but I think that all three of them could have been decent gigs starting up. The following year, I got offered the job I have now in April... so again, past peak hiring. After all, I didn't have a ton of experience so they had to settle for me. Now I'm happy where I am. If you are willing to wait, I think you will get some offers!
chilagringa
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Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by chilagringa »

I'll add that I teach history.
cms989
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by cms989 »

@chilagringa you may be right, last year I got two offers (bad offers, but offers) but I was severely limited due to an October start date. No doubt I would have had more interviews if I could have started earlier last year. That's what I'm referring to in my 3 of 4 interviews I (probably confusingly) referred to in the OP.

I'd say it's not only that I haven't got a job yet, though, the whole experience of actually signing up for Search and seeing what's there led me to reflect a bit. I'm already good at ESL teaching, I know about it, it's more in demand . . why stick with history? I think I got some bad advice before I started my cert that ESL teachers were forever second class even in IS, which is not true.

The M.Ed doesn't start til fall so I do have some more time to wait it out.
PsyGuy
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Response

Post by PsyGuy »

How successful has the ESOL applications been?
ESOL language school experience isnt worth anything. Hagwon and Eikaiwa experience doesnt transfer to IE. As you say though there it is.

ISs recruit for ESOL appointments the problem that plagues IE is that so many ETs try to move into IE thinking that what they do in a ES is the same thing in an IS. ISs dont generally do pull out for ESOL, its typically a scheduled course. Either the IS has a small ESOL population and its a scheduled elective, or its a large population and a scheduled part of the core curriculum. Pull out happens when you have a small ESOL population with a sub population of students who are mono lingual and L1 isnt English or a student/small group of students who are early beginner level. In those types of roles your as likely to have inclusion or support (push in) where an IT or TA shadows a student. Those are mostly TAs though, and the ESOL IT has some supervisory duties of monitoring those TAs. The IS may just use a dispatch service for such vacancies. Its very difficult to do any population of ESOL as a pull out, if the population isnt very small. You end up with students of different ability just dropping by and not really getting any instructional time with the IT. ISs that use this method tend to be high on self study materials. In that case the IT is essentially a lab monitor.

To your inquiry, getting an Masters in TESOL is a really, really bad idea at this point. Your problem isnt qualifications and credentials its lack of experience. Adding a Masters at this stage in TESOL is just going to make you an even more expensive hire and further reduce your marketability into IE, especially in TESOL. Recruiters know those degrees dont make better educators they make entry level researchers. they are for native speakers that want to get into foreign Uni systems. If youd applied to those history vacancies with 5 years or even a couple years experience youd have gotten a more favorable response, this is why the forum consensus is that getting 2 years post certification experience in DE is the advised pathway.
Adding a Masters at this point is going to be yet another year your not in a DS/IS classroom.
The problem your going to have is getting a DE appointment in History/Social studies as well, there are plenty of history DTs who cant get a job in DE either. SPED/SEN/LD and ESOL are the easier ways to break into DE, but many US districts want bilingual ESOL DTs not just ITs with a state credential.
Taking the exam is far less expensive and easier, and since you will be there anyway you may wish to consider adding some additional credential areas:

1) SPED/SEN/LD: Its a support role, and with ESOL will be a lot of help and marketable in those ISs that dont do SPED, but get students with diagnosed or hidden diagnosis anyway. It would pair well with ESOL.
2) Adding Literature/Language Arts: In lower secondary specific vacancies they often paired, maths/science, and literature/social studies. Your missing out on vacancies you dont qualify for both. Further, ESOL ITs often find themselves int he position of having ELA tasking.
3) Primary/Elementary: ESOL is essentially a literacy program at early developmental stages, and this is basically what primary education is focused on literacy and numeracy. Primary will open up a lot more vacancies.
4) Social Studies: You state your credential is in History, adding a composite or other fields will expand your marketability. A history IT has very restrictive scheduling options, as it is being able to offer economics, business studies, geography,e tc, will appeal more to recruiters.

You could consider transferring your current certificate to another state that offers examination by PRAXIS, since you can take those exams globally, and wouldnt have to travel back to the US.

The only advantage to the Masters in TESOL is if you wanted to stay in ESOL and move to the Uni level. That being said there are a number of 1 year Masters in the UK that are around £6K that you can do online or by distance.

You should also apply for QTS, as its a 15 minute application and doesnt cost anything. You dont say what your undergraduate degree is in but you could then peddle your experience and current resume as an ESOL IT, and see what response your applications received. Without an ESOL preparation background adding a US credential in ESOL isnt going to add much more utility over an ESOL IT with QTS. Youd hate to spend the coin on the travel and credentials and not get anything with them.

ESOL support is just tutoring. Its easier than a classroom appointment, you dont have classroom and behavior management to deal with, as long as your engaging with the student there going to be engaging back.
cms989
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by cms989 »

@PsyGuy I appreciate the advice and will take it into consideration, some things I think about when I hear what you said:

I don't necessarily have a problem going into DE after the M.Ed TESOL. I'm specifically looking at programs that are geared towards DTs rather than the research programs or programs geared towards foreign uni teachers (i.e. U.S. programs that align with their state's K-12 endorsement requirements). So at least on the DT front I believe the qualifications would be respected.

I think like you said the domestic market is also saturated for history so it kind of seems like throwing good money after bad.

As I started looking for positions I think the truth came out with what I want. I'm not really very excited to go teach history in some charter school somewhere in the U.S. with 35 students per class, you know? I did that in my student teaching and it's not really what I signed up for.

So I'm probably happy with either outcome - IT ESL position at the end of the program (which you find highly doubtful), or DT ESL position at the end. The masters is something I want to get, someday, anyway, and my job offers more flexibility now than I might can expect in the future in trying to get it. I think when I talk about marketability I'm taking the longer view and saying if I start my career in ESL, rather than history, am I going to be happy I did it in ten years? From statistics I can find about the need for ESL versus history teachers it seems the answer is yes.

I realize getting certified in ESL and taking a DT position this year is the smartest choice but for personal reasons I night not want to move to Nowhere, Texas this year. I'll be better prepared to do that in a year or two (with partner). I need to research this more, though, but seems like a heavy lift this year.

edit: ya I think I'm starting to see the light. I really should figure out how to get an ESL endorsement, or get hired with a school that has faith in me passing the test (so I have some motivation to fly out there and take it). Even 1 year of DT ESL experience is going to be worth way more than a masters at this point, DT or IT market.
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@cms989

I realize you dont have an issue going into DE after the M.TESOL, the problem is going to be finding a DS that wants to hire someone with ES experience who isnt bilingual. In addition doing that job search is going to require you to be local (Im assuming Texas) meaning youd have to relocate back to Texas just do to district fairs and interviews. They wont hire you over Skype like you find in IE. All of that and you might end up with nothing or relocating to a different part of Texas.

Those curriculum M.TESOL degrees are designed for ETs that came to wherever with their degree in Zanshou basket weaving, and never left ET and now want something that gets them a better pay rate or into Uni. You are a credentialed educator you have already had the EPP/ITT training in meds/peds, curriculum, and classroom management. Thats all those K12/KS programs are going to do, your going to pay USD10K to do something youve already done (and youll hate it because it will be SO BORING). If your going to spend that kind of coin do a masters in Ed.Ld that results in a leadership credential or school counseling, or for what would be a closer match for you Librarian.

The issue with the DE market is what you start out doing doesnt have to be what you end up doing, the hardest part is getting in the door. Teaching whatever (SPED/SEN/LD, ESOL) doesnt matter so much, when a vacancy in history comes up internal candidates ALWAYS get preference over external applicants.
You also realize that teaching history in the US DE market means you have to coach.

I agree those 35 student classroom charters are not fun, makes you want to run screaming out of the building. What I believe you do have is a vision of a classroom large bay windows, a semi circle of desks or tables with 15 students, highly motivated and interested in the subject and having unit lessons of mock trials of King Louie after the French Revolution. Working with the cute drama teacher on collaborative historical dramas. Something along those lines?
The issue is that to get to that you have to go through the crud, this is what causes the high attrition rate in education. They were led to believe that education is like it is on television of the movies where DTs are nice bubbling comedy relief who basically cant manage their own lives. Teaching in DE is more like "Dangerous Minds" than "Glee". If you want that dream appointment your going to have to make your way through varying amounts of poo, it does get better, and if you stick with it you can get there.

My problem with ESOL is that your second year as an ESOL IT is going to be very much like your last year, unless you go in a different direction at some point (leadership, etc.), in history or social studies its starts out in the ditch but has potential for much greater professional rewards, if thats were your passion is.

While your out in Texas Id strongly consider adding a few more endorsements to your credential. SPED, ELA, SS Composite, Primary.
cms989
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Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by cms989 »

I think what I'd have to do is find a good Texas job fair. It looks like UT hosts one in early April but I can't go then. I see a number of fairs that seem to simply not be scheduled yet. Go during my spring break (end of april), take the test a few days before the fair, attend the fair, hopefully leave with a job.
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@cms989

Most of them are in May when conducted by the Universities. Thats the time that DTs have taken and passed their PPR exam and know they will complete the EPP/ITT. Most universities are done in early May, and with finals dont want to stress the PPR, so they schedule their PPR when finals are over often during May before the summer term begins. The individual districts usually do theres in April or June.
Teach1010
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Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by Teach1010 »

I think you would find it easier than you might anticipate to get a job in the US, whether it be in ESL or history, especially if you are willing to consider all the states, charter/public/private schools, etc. I realize that's not your goal right now and you're right that teaching in a terrible charter school is no fun, but PG is right about having to wade through the mud for a few years to get to where you really want to be. Don't be fooled into thinking you can't get hired over Skype for a DE job or that they will be unimpressed by your experience. There will be principals in the US who know nothing of IE and have not been trained to think that language school experience shouldn't count for anything (though it likely wouldn't count as years of experience on the pay ladder). There will be some who actually think your ESL experience abroad is "really neat" and may want to hire you just because of it. Everyone in IE and on this forum is well-traveled and has a wealth of diverse experiences in education, so they are much harder to impress. That's simply not the case in the majority of DE schools. People who spent a month teaching English in South Korea last summer might be a dime a dozen in IE, but that's not something most DE principals see on an average résumé. As far as not being certified in ESL, I think you could get hired at a DE school with the understanding that you would take the test and get your paperwork in order before school starts (or even shortly after school starts). Again, the fact that you have a lot of ESL experience will give them confidence that you know what you are doing even though you aren't licensed in ESL yet. You would just need to do your research into which states allow you to add additional subjects to your license by testing. The Master's would probably hinder you more in DE than IE in terms of making yourself too expensive. Many DE schools prefer to hire someone with 0 experience and no Master's to save money. What you have right now is "free experience" because you have been working/teaching for several years but they don't have to pay you for it. I could be wrong about this, but it seems like some ISs value having a high percentage of teachers with a Master's to use as a marketing tool. I've seen several IS websites that advertise that xx% of their teachers have a Master's. DE public schools don't care about you having a Master's because they don't need to impress the parents of their student body in the same way ISs do.

If I were you, I would wait until you're ready to move back to the US to start your Master's. Land your DE job first, and then start the Master's in ESL. Teach for two years, complete your Master's during those same two years, and then you will be ready to enter the IE recruitment process as a much stronger candidate. Of course there's no harm in continuing to apply to ISs between now and then. You never know what might happen, but I think you realize that getting a job at an IS is going to be a long shot until you get your 2 years of (qualifying) experience. Even then your options may be pretty limited just by the nature of your subject area(s) being in low demand.
helloiswill
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Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by helloiswill »

I think it might be useful to share my personal story because you are at very similar point (though you have certification) as I was three years ago. Coincidentally, I plan on accepting an offer at an upper tier school in East Asia tonight.

Three years ago, I was in my second year teaching English in Taiwan (at a chain cram school) but professionally and fiscally my ESL work was unfulfilling/unsustainable. I realized international education was where I wanted to be and I worked backwards to identify the steps I needed to take to be considered for the position. As everyone on this site knows, I needed teacher certification, some experience teaching domestically, and probably a masters degree.

While in Taiwan, I applied to a program in the US called The New Teacher Project, it is a sister program to Teach for America. Shortly after, I was accepted and packing my bags to start my training and later a position as an ESL teacher at an elementary school in the US. This job was difficult because I was teaching in a Title I school an urban environment. A lot of teachers self-removed from the program because of a lack of support from administration, egregious behavior problems, and general frustrations with domestic education. However, I came in expecting these issues, was unfazed when I encountered them, and stuck around for a first and later a second year. After the first year, I applied and was accepted int Johns Hopkins for my masters of science in education. I mention this because you are guaranteed a position in their masters program if you are a TNTP or TFA cohort member.

At the beginning of my second year teaching (this year), I added certifications in English (9-12) and ELA (6-8) and made an account on Search Associates to begin sending applications to some (around 60) schools. I was encouraged by the amount of attention I got. Most of the schools were lower tier but I landed interviews with three or four tier 1/tier 2 schools. I decided on a position in a tier 2 school teaching language arts at the primary level.

So, I know my story wouldn't fit the exact path you want take but I wanted to share it to show you that it's possible. I did have to do some "wading through the mud" for a couple years but I'm coming out the other side non-the-worse and with a pretty solid resume.
Monkey
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Re: I'm not competitive - next step M.Ed TESOL?

Post by Monkey »

It seems like you've more solidified your plan, but I thought I'd add a bit of my own personal experience, since some of my past mirrors yours. I also initially got certified in a classroom teaching area. I taught overseas for a bit in a position that didn't really "count" either. I decided to go back home to get "real" teaching experience. I did get hired via phone (this was back when Skype was too new for widespread use). Then I got my M.Ed in ESL while home. I've been abroad for years now, sometimes teaching in my academic area, and sometimes teaching ESL in the primary area. Don't be fooled, most intl schools have ESL/EAL positions. Good luck!
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