In a recent conversation with other international teachers, the topic of ageism in schools came up. This was not visa related (when a teacher can't be hired due to age restrictions in place for government issued work visas), but more about attitudes of other teachers towards teachers with more years of experience. Respect for experience seems to exist sometimes, but I also heard complaints. I was surprised at the negativity, especially since I know and admire several outstanding older teachers, and one in particular is more knowledgeable than most about the latest developments in education. By older, I mean from the late 40's and on.
What have your experiences with ageism in schools been, either domestically or internationally? Do you see it where you are? What are the reasons for it? Are older teachers threatening?
Ageism in education (not visa related)
Re: Ageism in education (not visa related)
Of course this is the case when school heads want to get cheap but energetic looking teachers. There are whole schools with no expat teachers above 35-years-old. It's also a great way to take advantage of young wide-eyed teachers who won't complain as much about bad housing, hr policies, etc.
Reponse
I dont disagree with @reisgio, at about 50 an IT really needs to be settled where ever they are going to retire out. At that point an IT is often a very expensive hire, they have a high number of steps in experience, more likely to have an advance degree, and the big one have kids and a spouse. These are the ITs that are much more concerned about their retirement, paying for their kids education, and medical health care becomes a more likely issue. Compared to younger ITs who are less likely to recognize their value, are cheaper, and a degree of naivety that promotes whatever the status quo is, is normal/average.
Where my POV differs is tha this is less an issue of ageism or discrimination, but applied stereotypes. You can find various forms of trends in ISs globally, but at the locust of those trends and behaviors is that clients, ownership and leadership have an image of what they see as a desirable stereotype that they identify with. Stakeholders might value younger ITs for their technology skills (even if those technology skills dont go past social media), or they might value a more mature and older parental type (even if there wisdom and maturity is atrocious outside the IS), they might value a couple as more stable and hearthy (even if their marriage is in shambles). An EC PYP IS I was working with recently had all young ITs, all of them were in their 20s, and all female. The HOS did that because thats what clients (parents) wanted, they wanted more a nanny stereotype than a maternal stereotype, Its what pitched and sold to the moms.
There are significant staffing and recruiting factors that are not based on merit, and favor certain perceptions dependent on the recruiting and staffing vision. Another primary example is the lack of ethnic diversity in IE, its largely a white profession, part of that has to do with the ability of education in general to recruit minority DTs, but another significant factor is that western education in a large part of the world mean white education, and thats what clients/parents want to see in the classroom.
My personal perceptions (stereotypes):
1) Technology: Older ITs are less likely to engage with technology in the classroom regardless of their proficiency (unless they are basically a technology geek). Technology based instruction takes more work, requires deeper collaboration and is more likely to fail. Take something very basic as accessing a text (book). Doing the technological version requires: creating accounts, locating materials, reliable network structure, coordinating access across devices, and the maintenance of those devices (I forgot to charge my tablet last night after playing candy crush). The non technology version requires: opening book (smart ITs keep desk sets in the classroom, and students can access digital versions at home, no forgotten books). Its just a lot of work and more experienced ITs have figured out that figuring out how to work less is key to longevity in the profession, and that technology for the sake of technology doesnt add anything. Younger ITs tend to believe that there are synergy skills and objectives to using technology in of itself. Its not just a literature lesson, its a digital literacy lesson. They also realize that older leadership types can be distracted by the technology in a classroom and its utilization, and that you can do a lot of nothing and make it look like something if your using technology.
2) Sourcing: Older ITs are more likely to create something for use in the classroom from concept to product and then reuse it repeatedly, lesson after lesson year after year. This often results in higher quality lessons (greater degree of innate understanding) but less likely to be updated and revised with any regularity (it was good enough last year, its good enough this year). Younger ITs are more likely to search for materials and then borrow/appropriate them for their own use. This results in lower quality lessons, as lessons are then structured to fit the material (you find an awesome youtube video, now what to do with it), this means results in more active revision and adaption as the resources put into the lesson and material is very low (you structure the lesson around the awesome video, and then at sometime you find a better video and substitute it).
3) Collaboration: Younger ITs are more likely to work together and collaborate, simply as a means of sourcing material. They have less of an ownership in their lesson production. Older ITs tend to be far more protective of what they have produced, and generally see colleagues as intruders or spies into their classroom.
4) Leadership: This category has a lot of variation, my safest observation is that younger ITs see older leadership more as a mentor relationship. Getting a member of leadership on your side means protection and favors. Younger ITs see younger leadership as peers, team members who do different tasks (and I blame leadership for this trying to be everyones friend, and not their supervisor, and not establish the dichotomy in that relationship). Older ITs tend to see older leadership as either the enemy or at best a mediator (I have a problem, fix it) a sort of gentle adversity. Older ITs see younger leadership as basically incompetent, incapable or some type of nepotism (experience matters, I have more). Of course you dont have to like someone or respect someone to appreciate the consequences of insubordination. I once saw an older IT just under 50 get a new AP who was mid 20s and they just didnt work together. The new AP wanted to flex their ego and the IT just didnt respect the AP. It came to a head when they were in a disciplinary meeting with the senior principal. It was very cordial, the senior principal was very direct and says this is your AP, when they give you a directive its because I instructed them too. The IT said they need to find someone else, call it pride or ego but they just didnt respect the AP who had been teaching for only a few years and the IT had a couple decades of classroom experience, the IT walked.
Where my POV differs is tha this is less an issue of ageism or discrimination, but applied stereotypes. You can find various forms of trends in ISs globally, but at the locust of those trends and behaviors is that clients, ownership and leadership have an image of what they see as a desirable stereotype that they identify with. Stakeholders might value younger ITs for their technology skills (even if those technology skills dont go past social media), or they might value a more mature and older parental type (even if there wisdom and maturity is atrocious outside the IS), they might value a couple as more stable and hearthy (even if their marriage is in shambles). An EC PYP IS I was working with recently had all young ITs, all of them were in their 20s, and all female. The HOS did that because thats what clients (parents) wanted, they wanted more a nanny stereotype than a maternal stereotype, Its what pitched and sold to the moms.
There are significant staffing and recruiting factors that are not based on merit, and favor certain perceptions dependent on the recruiting and staffing vision. Another primary example is the lack of ethnic diversity in IE, its largely a white profession, part of that has to do with the ability of education in general to recruit minority DTs, but another significant factor is that western education in a large part of the world mean white education, and thats what clients/parents want to see in the classroom.
My personal perceptions (stereotypes):
1) Technology: Older ITs are less likely to engage with technology in the classroom regardless of their proficiency (unless they are basically a technology geek). Technology based instruction takes more work, requires deeper collaboration and is more likely to fail. Take something very basic as accessing a text (book). Doing the technological version requires: creating accounts, locating materials, reliable network structure, coordinating access across devices, and the maintenance of those devices (I forgot to charge my tablet last night after playing candy crush). The non technology version requires: opening book (smart ITs keep desk sets in the classroom, and students can access digital versions at home, no forgotten books). Its just a lot of work and more experienced ITs have figured out that figuring out how to work less is key to longevity in the profession, and that technology for the sake of technology doesnt add anything. Younger ITs tend to believe that there are synergy skills and objectives to using technology in of itself. Its not just a literature lesson, its a digital literacy lesson. They also realize that older leadership types can be distracted by the technology in a classroom and its utilization, and that you can do a lot of nothing and make it look like something if your using technology.
2) Sourcing: Older ITs are more likely to create something for use in the classroom from concept to product and then reuse it repeatedly, lesson after lesson year after year. This often results in higher quality lessons (greater degree of innate understanding) but less likely to be updated and revised with any regularity (it was good enough last year, its good enough this year). Younger ITs are more likely to search for materials and then borrow/appropriate them for their own use. This results in lower quality lessons, as lessons are then structured to fit the material (you find an awesome youtube video, now what to do with it), this means results in more active revision and adaption as the resources put into the lesson and material is very low (you structure the lesson around the awesome video, and then at sometime you find a better video and substitute it).
3) Collaboration: Younger ITs are more likely to work together and collaborate, simply as a means of sourcing material. They have less of an ownership in their lesson production. Older ITs tend to be far more protective of what they have produced, and generally see colleagues as intruders or spies into their classroom.
4) Leadership: This category has a lot of variation, my safest observation is that younger ITs see older leadership more as a mentor relationship. Getting a member of leadership on your side means protection and favors. Younger ITs see younger leadership as peers, team members who do different tasks (and I blame leadership for this trying to be everyones friend, and not their supervisor, and not establish the dichotomy in that relationship). Older ITs tend to see older leadership as either the enemy or at best a mediator (I have a problem, fix it) a sort of gentle adversity. Older ITs see younger leadership as basically incompetent, incapable or some type of nepotism (experience matters, I have more). Of course you dont have to like someone or respect someone to appreciate the consequences of insubordination. I once saw an older IT just under 50 get a new AP who was mid 20s and they just didnt work together. The new AP wanted to flex their ego and the IT just didnt respect the AP. It came to a head when they were in a disciplinary meeting with the senior principal. It was very cordial, the senior principal was very direct and says this is your AP, when they give you a directive its because I instructed them too. The IT said they need to find someone else, call it pride or ego but they just didnt respect the AP who had been teaching for only a few years and the IT had a couple decades of classroom experience, the IT walked.
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Lastname_Z
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Mon May 20, 2013 12:17 pm
Re: Ageism in education (not visa related)
"Younger ITs see younger leadership as peers, team members who do different tasks (and I blame leadership for this trying to be everyones friend, and not their supervisor, and not establish the dichotomy in that relationship)."
- And why is this wrong exactly? Kind of revealing my age here...
On another note, ageism may also come from the ITs home country. In some countries there are more certified teachers than schools require (a result of disconnect between supply and demand). Many younger ITs are teaching abroad because there were very little jobs in their home country (myself included). The prevailing attitude is that older teachers are the ones holding on to those jobs well into the age of retirement (60s) and are even going back for supply positions. Basically, older teachers are responsible for keeping these jobs away from younger teachers.
This is especially discouraging for younger teachers when they have done practicums in schools as student teachers and have seen full-time, well-paid teachers sit in their desk all day or just be mediocre in general. Younger teachers then take these opinions with them to IT (regardless of whether it applies or not).
- And why is this wrong exactly? Kind of revealing my age here...
On another note, ageism may also come from the ITs home country. In some countries there are more certified teachers than schools require (a result of disconnect between supply and demand). Many younger ITs are teaching abroad because there were very little jobs in their home country (myself included). The prevailing attitude is that older teachers are the ones holding on to those jobs well into the age of retirement (60s) and are even going back for supply positions. Basically, older teachers are responsible for keeping these jobs away from younger teachers.
This is especially discouraging for younger teachers when they have done practicums in schools as student teachers and have seen full-time, well-paid teachers sit in their desk all day or just be mediocre in general. Younger teachers then take these opinions with them to IT (regardless of whether it applies or not).
Reply
@Lastname_Z
It creates the perception that favoritism and nepotism exists even if it doesnt, managing the work group looks more like social networking, policies and directives get interpreted as being relationship based. It creates more work for everyone in the work group as harmony becomes more important than productivity. It will come to a point where steal meets stone and feelings, ego, pride, relationships will be hurt and damaged. You cant be friends with everyone when hard decisions need to be made.
A lot of those older DTs would have been happy to retire, but many of them are still recovering from the 2000 recession, they just cant afford to retire, and if you need to make a living you need to make a living.
It creates the perception that favoritism and nepotism exists even if it doesnt, managing the work group looks more like social networking, policies and directives get interpreted as being relationship based. It creates more work for everyone in the work group as harmony becomes more important than productivity. It will come to a point where steal meets stone and feelings, ego, pride, relationships will be hurt and damaged. You cant be friends with everyone when hard decisions need to be made.
A lot of those older DTs would have been happy to retire, but many of them are still recovering from the 2000 recession, they just cant afford to retire, and if you need to make a living you need to make a living.
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global_nomad
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:12 pm
Re: Ageism in education (not visa related)
I've worked in several international schools and while I am in my 40s, I have always valued working with a mix of veteran teachers (for their knowledge and experience) and newer teachers (for their youthful energy and new ideas from their homes of origin). In my opinion, it's important to keep that balance for an optimal school environment. It's also been my experience that the "better" schools seem to prefer experienced teachers with a proven track record more so than Tier 2 or 3 schools, which prefer younger, "cheaper" teachers.
I worked at one Tier 2 school with mostly younger teachers and some were frustrated with the more experienced teachers as they felt they were too set in their ways. But most of the younger teachers seemed to respect the more experienced teachers especially when it came time to dealing with Administration. I have also worked at several Tier 1s that had sky-high expectations and some of the younger teachers just simply couldn't keep up. It was then that some of the experienced teachers would show frustration at the the hiring of such inexperienced teachers.
I worked at one Tier 2 school with mostly younger teachers and some were frustrated with the more experienced teachers as they felt they were too set in their ways. But most of the younger teachers seemed to respect the more experienced teachers especially when it came time to dealing with Administration. I have also worked at several Tier 1s that had sky-high expectations and some of the younger teachers just simply couldn't keep up. It was then that some of the experienced teachers would show frustration at the the hiring of such inexperienced teachers.