Hello everyone,
I am currently teaching physics (AP-level) at an international school in China. This was my first teaching job since getting certified grades 6-12 math, 10-12 physics, and 9-12 history. This is my second year of full time teaching.
I am looking to teach with the DoD (particularly DoDDS) mainly because of the benefits, the fact that I was raised a military kid myself, and the opportunity to continue living abroad.
I've been reading quite a few of the other topics, and here's a few things I've gathered (correct me if I'm wrong):
(a) DoDDS is very competitive to get hired with
(b) DoDDS rarely hires inexperienced teachers (2 years FT exp minimum)
(c) Most DoDDS teachers don't move around so much, if at all
(d) DoDDS teachers are not necessarily the cream of the crop (hard to believe this one)
(e) Students in the DoDDS/DoDEA system aren't typically very high achieving, with some schools possibly having some AP programs. I attended the high school at Lackland; there were those who wanted to do well, and those who just wanted to do the bare minimum; many enlisted right there on the spot after graduation.
Now, I'm not bothered by (c) through (e), but (a) and (b) are a bit troubling for a low-experienced teacher like myself. If I wanted to work with them next school year, I'd have just finished 2 years of full time experience. With Chinese students, no less, but I guess it's still experience to them.
So, here are my questions:
1. What is the demand like for math and physics teachers in DoDDS? Is it enough to warrant hiring someone with as little experience as me?
2. How exactly do I get the EAS system to send an email to a supervisor for a reference form? I've been trying repeatedly and they don't get it in junk or anywhere.
3. Besides DoD, are there other teach-abroad programs that offer retirement pensions?
If anyone has any input for any of these, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
DoD inquiry for math/physics/history teacher
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10thmandown
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:17 pm
Response
A) Yes, its very competitive and their a re a few major contributing factors: 1) ITs are highly compensated, 2) there is no mandatory retirement age, 3) Given the workload there isnt anywhere to really go 'up' from DoDDS.
B) True, most selectees have 5+ years of experience and many closer to a decade. I know of only 2 that were filled with 2 or less years of experience.
C) They use to move around a lot more, the trend was to get hired wherever you could (often PAC) and then transfer at the end of your tour to EUR, at which point most ITs would remain. Recently the transfer program has experienced a lot of shrinkage. There just arent the opportunities there used to be.
D) They arent, many of them are very old school, and have little or non-existant technology skills. In addition the tenure (permanent status) system provides little motivation to excel. Its nearly impossible short of committing a crime to be dismissed once you are permanent.
E) True, DoDDS kids are average, they come from an average demographic.
1) No, there is no such thing as high needs in DoDDS. SPED, especially multiple categories has the highest demand, and there are some esoteric combinations that would be difficult to fill. The idea that high needs in DoDDS though is anything like a public/maintained DS is incongruent. Science has higher demand/need than primary, but there isnt a vacancy that EAS cant fill.
You would need all science, plus math and ICT before youd be visible to DoDDS with your experience. You need about 6 areas not to be invisible and 9 before your noticed.
2) Its not a reference form its a link to a survey essentially. Try using a different email address for the reference, but its all automated.
3) This is why many ITs plan for WE/EU later in their career, you want to be in a country with a social insurance scheme that provides a social insurance pension. Some of the larger more chain like ISs offer retirement programs as well. In addition elite tier ISs generally offer some kind of program.
B) True, most selectees have 5+ years of experience and many closer to a decade. I know of only 2 that were filled with 2 or less years of experience.
C) They use to move around a lot more, the trend was to get hired wherever you could (often PAC) and then transfer at the end of your tour to EUR, at which point most ITs would remain. Recently the transfer program has experienced a lot of shrinkage. There just arent the opportunities there used to be.
D) They arent, many of them are very old school, and have little or non-existant technology skills. In addition the tenure (permanent status) system provides little motivation to excel. Its nearly impossible short of committing a crime to be dismissed once you are permanent.
E) True, DoDDS kids are average, they come from an average demographic.
1) No, there is no such thing as high needs in DoDDS. SPED, especially multiple categories has the highest demand, and there are some esoteric combinations that would be difficult to fill. The idea that high needs in DoDDS though is anything like a public/maintained DS is incongruent. Science has higher demand/need than primary, but there isnt a vacancy that EAS cant fill.
You would need all science, plus math and ICT before youd be visible to DoDDS with your experience. You need about 6 areas not to be invisible and 9 before your noticed.
2) Its not a reference form its a link to a survey essentially. Try using a different email address for the reference, but its all automated.
3) This is why many ITs plan for WE/EU later in their career, you want to be in a country with a social insurance scheme that provides a social insurance pension. Some of the larger more chain like ISs offer retirement programs as well. In addition elite tier ISs generally offer some kind of program.
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10thmandown
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:17 pm
Re: DoD inquiry for math/physics/history teacher
Well, thanks for the pointers. I suppose I'd be better off getting more experience instead of trying to add more certifications. If I really wanted to, I could add certifications in other sciences just by taking Praxis II tests (per Wisconsin certification rules), but I get the feeling that the DoD would want to see supporting coursework for that.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: DoD inquiry for math/physics/history teacher
10thmandown wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am currently teaching physics (AP-level) at an international school in
> China. This was my first teaching job since getting certified grades 6-12
> math, 10-12 physics, and 9-12 history. This is my second year of full time
> teaching.
>
> I am looking to teach with the DoD (particularly DoDDS) mainly because of
> the benefits, the fact that I was raised a military kid myself, and the
> opportunity to continue living abroad.
>
> I've been reading quite a few of the other topics, and here's a few things
> I've gathered (correct me if I'm wrong):
>
> (a) DoDDS is very competitive to get hired with
> (b) DoDDS rarely hires inexperienced teachers (2 years FT exp minimum)
> (c) Most DoDDS teachers don't move around so much, if at all
> (d) DoDDS teachers are not necessarily the cream of the crop (hard to
> believe this one)
> (e) Students in the DoDDS/DoDEA system aren't typically very high
> achieving, with some schools possibly having some AP programs. I attended
> the high school at Lackland; there were those who wanted to do well, and
> those who just wanted to do the bare minimum; many enlisted right there on
> the spot after graduation.
>
> Now, I'm not bothered by (c) through (e), but (a) and (b) are a bit
> troubling for a low-experienced teacher like myself. If I wanted to work
> with them next school year, I'd have just finished 2 years of full time
> experience. With Chinese students, no less, but I guess it's still
> experience to them.
>
> So, here are my questions:
>
> 1. What is the demand like for math and physics teachers in DoDDS? Is it
> enough to warrant hiring someone with as little experience as me?
>
> 2. How exactly do I get the EAS system to send an email to a supervisor
> for a reference form? I've been trying repeatedly and they don't get it in
> junk or anywhere.
>
> 3. Besides DoD, are there other teach-abroad programs that offer
> retirement pensions?
>
> If anyone has any input for any of these, it would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks!
As for the quality of DoDDS teachers it runs the gamut from poor to outstanding. In my experience this is true in all schools even in many of the so-called elite schools like ASIJ (although the majority would run from mediocre to outstanding I suppose).
1. What is the demand like for math and physics teachers in DoDDS? Is it enough to warrant hiring someone with as little experience as me?
I disagree a bit with PG. Some areas are more in demand and are easier to get into (although I agree that the demand is relative since DoDDS can choose from a wide pool of very qualified candidates). Math and Science are some of those areas (as is SPED). Having certs and coursework in both would be an advantage over having certs and coursework in ELA and Social Studies. I know many teachers who teach only math or science, as well as many who teach both. As for whether the demand is enough to overcome your lack of experience on top of your lack of US public school experience I would say probably not (although it is possible). I know of DoDDS schools right now with long term subs in place for Math/Science. Partly this is due to HR being so inept but it is worth keeping in mind.
Your best bet is really to go back to the states and work for a couple of years. Then go back overseas while waiting for DoDDS to happen if that is what you prefer.
2. How exactly do I get the EAS system to send an email to a supervisor for a reference form? I've been trying repeatedly and they don't get it in junk or anywhere.
If the online system is not working for you then just mail the correct form and a self-addressed stamped envelope to the person and then keep following up until they take care of it.
3. Besides DoD, are there other teach-abroad programs that offer retirement pensions?
Some elite schools and/or schools in countries in Western Europe etc have some type of pension programs. All of these will also want more experience from you to give you serious consideration.
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am currently teaching physics (AP-level) at an international school in
> China. This was my first teaching job since getting certified grades 6-12
> math, 10-12 physics, and 9-12 history. This is my second year of full time
> teaching.
>
> I am looking to teach with the DoD (particularly DoDDS) mainly because of
> the benefits, the fact that I was raised a military kid myself, and the
> opportunity to continue living abroad.
>
> I've been reading quite a few of the other topics, and here's a few things
> I've gathered (correct me if I'm wrong):
>
> (a) DoDDS is very competitive to get hired with
> (b) DoDDS rarely hires inexperienced teachers (2 years FT exp minimum)
> (c) Most DoDDS teachers don't move around so much, if at all
> (d) DoDDS teachers are not necessarily the cream of the crop (hard to
> believe this one)
> (e) Students in the DoDDS/DoDEA system aren't typically very high
> achieving, with some schools possibly having some AP programs. I attended
> the high school at Lackland; there were those who wanted to do well, and
> those who just wanted to do the bare minimum; many enlisted right there on
> the spot after graduation.
>
> Now, I'm not bothered by (c) through (e), but (a) and (b) are a bit
> troubling for a low-experienced teacher like myself. If I wanted to work
> with them next school year, I'd have just finished 2 years of full time
> experience. With Chinese students, no less, but I guess it's still
> experience to them.
>
> So, here are my questions:
>
> 1. What is the demand like for math and physics teachers in DoDDS? Is it
> enough to warrant hiring someone with as little experience as me?
>
> 2. How exactly do I get the EAS system to send an email to a supervisor
> for a reference form? I've been trying repeatedly and they don't get it in
> junk or anywhere.
>
> 3. Besides DoD, are there other teach-abroad programs that offer
> retirement pensions?
>
> If anyone has any input for any of these, it would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks!
As for the quality of DoDDS teachers it runs the gamut from poor to outstanding. In my experience this is true in all schools even in many of the so-called elite schools like ASIJ (although the majority would run from mediocre to outstanding I suppose).
1. What is the demand like for math and physics teachers in DoDDS? Is it enough to warrant hiring someone with as little experience as me?
I disagree a bit with PG. Some areas are more in demand and are easier to get into (although I agree that the demand is relative since DoDDS can choose from a wide pool of very qualified candidates). Math and Science are some of those areas (as is SPED). Having certs and coursework in both would be an advantage over having certs and coursework in ELA and Social Studies. I know many teachers who teach only math or science, as well as many who teach both. As for whether the demand is enough to overcome your lack of experience on top of your lack of US public school experience I would say probably not (although it is possible). I know of DoDDS schools right now with long term subs in place for Math/Science. Partly this is due to HR being so inept but it is worth keeping in mind.
Your best bet is really to go back to the states and work for a couple of years. Then go back overseas while waiting for DoDDS to happen if that is what you prefer.
2. How exactly do I get the EAS system to send an email to a supervisor for a reference form? I've been trying repeatedly and they don't get it in junk or anywhere.
If the online system is not working for you then just mail the correct form and a self-addressed stamped envelope to the person and then keep following up until they take care of it.
3. Besides DoD, are there other teach-abroad programs that offer retirement pensions?
Some elite schools and/or schools in countries in Western Europe etc have some type of pension programs. All of these will also want more experience from you to give you serious consideration.
Disscussion
@10thmandown
DODEA depends on credit hours, mostly. If you can pass a state exam and then add a certification, than the certification will save you 50% of the required hours for DODEA qualification. Thats a pretty good deal since that 50% is typically 12-15 hours of credits. However beyond that DODEA doesnt care how you got the certification or where you got the hours. DODEA doesnt care if you actually were in the field collecting data and writing a white paper of if you took a CLEP test. They dont care if you went to a local college or an Ivy Uni.
I dont generally disagree with @WT123, we do have some outstanding ITs, we also have a higher percentage of dead wood, mainly because of how difficult it is to dismiss an IT and the age of many of our ITs. Many of them truly do care about their students, they just arent going to do the genki dance, and if they are going to go the extra mile the student better be motivated to go the entire journey. There are a lot who are just in it for the coin and benefits.
There are differences in needs and demand, and again I generally agree with @WT123, what I dont want to do is give you the perception that "need" and "demand" are in anyway comparable to how need and demand are generally understood in DE. DoDEA doesnt have to worry about filling any kind of position, they dont have a database of unfilled vacancies.
I know many ITs in DoDDS who only teach maths or science or literature, etc, thats what most ITs in DoDDs do, but that doesnt mean or infer they dont have another 5 or 6 or more full qualifications on file. DoDDS has the highest concentration of ITs who are literally "walking schools" who could teach the entire curriculum if they were assigned too. Thats the difference between what you do and what you need to get noticed and get hired. There are many highly experienced and qualified ITs that wait years and never get hired with DoDDS.
These ISs that have long term subs in place is because its convenient, and easy, these are local hires (spouses).
DoDDS has to be your Plan C, right up there with winning the lottery, and the recruitment window is one of the worst. DoDDS recruits in the summer, often the late summer, meaning youre under contract with a DS by the time you get an offer from DoDDs, and many times you are in limbo with an offer while your waiting and you need to let your DS know and so the IT resigns and then your DoDDS orders never drop.
DODEA depends on credit hours, mostly. If you can pass a state exam and then add a certification, than the certification will save you 50% of the required hours for DODEA qualification. Thats a pretty good deal since that 50% is typically 12-15 hours of credits. However beyond that DODEA doesnt care how you got the certification or where you got the hours. DODEA doesnt care if you actually were in the field collecting data and writing a white paper of if you took a CLEP test. They dont care if you went to a local college or an Ivy Uni.
I dont generally disagree with @WT123, we do have some outstanding ITs, we also have a higher percentage of dead wood, mainly because of how difficult it is to dismiss an IT and the age of many of our ITs. Many of them truly do care about their students, they just arent going to do the genki dance, and if they are going to go the extra mile the student better be motivated to go the entire journey. There are a lot who are just in it for the coin and benefits.
There are differences in needs and demand, and again I generally agree with @WT123, what I dont want to do is give you the perception that "need" and "demand" are in anyway comparable to how need and demand are generally understood in DE. DoDEA doesnt have to worry about filling any kind of position, they dont have a database of unfilled vacancies.
I know many ITs in DoDDS who only teach maths or science or literature, etc, thats what most ITs in DoDDs do, but that doesnt mean or infer they dont have another 5 or 6 or more full qualifications on file. DoDDS has the highest concentration of ITs who are literally "walking schools" who could teach the entire curriculum if they were assigned too. Thats the difference between what you do and what you need to get noticed and get hired. There are many highly experienced and qualified ITs that wait years and never get hired with DoDDS.
These ISs that have long term subs in place is because its convenient, and easy, these are local hires (spouses).
DoDDS has to be your Plan C, right up there with winning the lottery, and the recruitment window is one of the worst. DoDDS recruits in the summer, often the late summer, meaning youre under contract with a DS by the time you get an offer from DoDDs, and many times you are in limbo with an offer while your waiting and you need to let your DS know and so the IT resigns and then your DoDDS orders never drop.