The International Schools Review Forum

Shadowjack, don't bother. Joe30 isn't interested in teaching abroad; it's just a means to an end for him.

You and I appear to take a similar view of things.

My original post opened up some great debate. I think ultimately for me I want to be the best at my job I can be; this means that i want to be valued , trained, challenged and paid well, this is after all a career. So for me working in a tier 1school is a goal and something to aim for. But I also get the work life balance argument and when I think of a return back to the UK I do shudder. Having said that , a good school in the UK state system would put my current 'tier 1 ' school in Colombia to shame. This does make me wonder whether the best teachers are in fact not abroad but at home. It's counter intuitive to say that on a forum like this but perhaps it's true.

joe30 wrote:
> shadowjack wrote:
> > If you want to work at those kinds of schools, please feel free.
>
> I just don't see where the 'stress' is coming from my having to alter a few numbers
> on a spreadsheet.
>
> Whereas I can see the stress that could be placed upon teachers from a school that
> demands world class education take place within its rooms.

I guess if it doesn't stress you out to be unethical, that's fine. I simply refuse to do it or work for an organization that would ask me to do it - or go behind my back and do it. It's a definite deal breaker.

Thames Pirate wrote:
> Shadowjack, don't bother. Joe30 isn't interested in teaching abroad; it's just a
> means to an end for him.
>

All jobs are a means to an end.

bobbydylan84 wrote:
> My original post opened up some great debate. I think ultimately for me I want to
> be the best at my job I can be; this means that i want to be valued , trained, challenged
> and paid well, this is after all a career. So for me working in a tier 1school is
> a goal and something to aim for. But I also get the work life balance argument and
> when I think of a return back to the UK I do shudder. Having said that , a good
> school in the UK state system would put my current 'tier 1 ' school in Colombia
> to shame. This does make me wonder whether the best teachers are in fact not abroad
> but at home. It's counter intuitive to say that on a forum like this but perhaps
> it's true.

I've no doubt about it, since most at 'home' get into teaching because of a love of the job (since you're certainly not getting into it for the paycheck...). I'm going to assume most IE's got into teaching because it provides a nice way to live in foreign countries and travel.

bobbydylan84 wrote:
> Having said that , a good school in the UK state system
> would put my current 'tier 1 ' school in Colombia to shame. This does make
> me wonder whether the best teachers are in fact not abroad but at home.
> It's counter intuitive to say that on a forum like this but perhaps it's
> true.

It's completely true. Very few ISs are up to the standard of good schools at home - and that goes for the US, Canada, Australia and most other countries, as well as the UK. You're far from the first person to say it.

Many of us are teachers first, ITs second, despite what Joe thinks. It is absolutely a passion for many of us (don't let this board fool you--the passionate ones get jobs and don't stay on the board very often). There are some phenomenal staffs in DE across the globe, and there are some really crummy IT staffs. There are also some unbelievable IT staffs. The key is to ask a lot of questions--of other ITs, of heads, of community members and parents, etc. Then remember that you can be good in just about any school. Be awesome, and be awesome in whatever place suits you. With that attitude, I am sure you will have lots of good recommendations to help you land where you want to be.

The vast majority of people aren't 'passionate' about their jobs, they do it for the lifestyle it affords them outside work. I do not see why this board or IE in general would go against that trend.

I'm not passionate either about teaching and quite happily admit I'm perfectly fine being a mediocre educator all my life. I initially got into teaching so I could live abroad, and that motivation has not changed. Sure there's good moments to teaching but there's good moments in most jobs - ultimately I'm still happier when it's 9pm and I'm home, than when it's 9am and I'm at work.

The majority of my coworkers care a lot about teaching. Those that are in it for the money (which, really, is silly because I could make a lot more money doing other things) are lousy teachers and get little respect from their colleagues and students. If not being respected in your job is your thing, feel free.

Also, even the hardest-working teachers at my school (I count myself among them) do NOT work until 9. Once in awhile I'll stay until 5 or 6, and maybe grade until 9 a day or two before report cards are due. Caring about your job and working hard does not disqualify you from enjoying life.

@bobbydylan84

Many ITs are not the teacher of the year ilk. They are average DTs who got tired of testing, or being the locust of motivation, or some other factor. Many of them either A) Wanted to finally travel while they could enjoy it. B) Wanted an easier job. The profession attracts the average (both the slightly above and the slightly below).

If you are passionate, you stand a good chance of being somewhere good. People like Joe don't generally get jobs at the best schools. Hey, if it works for him, that's his business, though of course it is sad for the students. The directors are happy to have a warm body. Passion for good teaching will probably land you a spot with a school that values it, meaning you will be with a staff that values it

Joe30 might be projecting his own views on everybody else? Or perhaps he runs with a similar crowd at schools that keep those teachers around?

The people I know sort of got into international teaching by accident. There wasn't a burning desire to go overseas. Some are international school students themselves, others had a friend who took the leap and they followed them, still others were on holidays and saw "international schools" in their destination and started wondering...

Not too sure that many of my colleagues thought, "I want to work less and take it easy, so I'll go teach overseas."

YMMV.

I've run into no shortage of teachers abroad who hate everything about the west. With good reason, since working and living in the west is terrible. It has the holy trinity of high work standards, high cost of living, and difficult women to get into bed.

Wanting to leave all that is a perfectly valid reason to become an IT. Your job should support the lifestyle you want outside work, it shouldn't be your life. If someone becomes an IT because they want to live near a beach, then more power to them.

When did teachers have the best lay anyway? We ain't no bankers or lawyers. Life is all about what you make the best out of it, not keep running away from hardships and live on self-pity. The most successful teachers know when to find a balance and when to give up sweet spots. In the end, these are the people who teach at great schools with highly motivated students, get excellent results and PD, enjoy great vacations, and still have a decent retirement with access to good healthcare.

fine dude wrote:
> Life is all about what you make the best out of it

I agree, and for most people who become IT's, that combination of salary/workload/women is the best they can do.

Most teachers wouldn't have the skill to be a banker. Let's see, to even get an interview at an investment bank in New York or London you need a degree from an Ivy League university or Oxford/Cambridge/LSE/UCL. How many teachers have such degrees? Same deal with law, top academics and great work ethic is needed. The vast majority of teachers never had the option of doing these careers as they weren't the elite of their generation. I'm not being disparaging here - I include myself and most of the rest of humanity in that group too.

A similar example would be a banker saying one doesn't get into banking for the lifestyle and women, since Premier League footballers are better off in terms of both. But just like most teachers couldn't be bankers, there's not a banker on the whole of Wall Street that could have become a Premier League footballer. They instead made the best if the options avaliable, just like ITs do.

You do realize that the majority of teachers (not to mention half the world) are, in fact, women, and more often and not prefer the company of men?

Then again, I've done pretty darn well for myself where I live, so I guess I'll have to sort of agree with you on that one.