How do i know a schools tier?

PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@fine dude

DTs were never very attractive many western woman the ones guys want to be with want 6 figures, 6 feet tall, and at least 6 inches. Many DTs cant do that, go into IT and ITs do better, in some regions they are some of the highest compd professions.

@joe30

I dont agree with the requirements to be a banker, I know a number of people who are VPs or bank managers at local banks that never went to an Ivy, never got an advance degree, just started out in the loan department, moved to customer service, then finance and eventually moved to bank manager. Is it the Bank of England (or whatever the central bank is in the region) but they are still bankers and make 6 figures. I dont know many of the Bankers even in executive offices who have anything more than a masters. Research divisions such as risk ana1ysis and asset control have some Ph.D. but many just have bachelors degrees.

I do agree many ITs and DTs didnt have those options, because teaching was the most reasonable option they could find and pay bills. Art/Theater/PHE and many others find teaching as being a success. Not everyone can make a living as a professional artist or actor or athlete, and if you cant and want to stay in your field teaching lest you do what you love, to a degree. I know one art IT that sees her job as little more than access to a free studio.

@chilagringa

You also understand then that those female ITs are either marrieds or they do poorly socially outside of the LCSA. Ive seen woman that were 8s that their husbands left them for a local girl, and ended up moving back to their HOR.
joe30
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Re: How do i know a schools tier?

Post by joe30 »

When referring to 'banker' in this context (bankers getting loads of money and women) I assumed we were talking about investment banking (for example, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs). Because local branch bank managers just earn middle class salaries for the most part, and after considering taxes they're not significantly better off than many ITs. To get a job at Goldman at the IB entry level...well, I'm not saying no one outside the Ivy League/Oxbridge has ever got in, but those unis make up the overwhelming majority of their intake. It's the same deal with Magic Circle law firms - I don't doubt their employees earn far more than ITs, but most ITs would have had their resumes thrown in the bin if they had applied there. The top jobs in the big financial and business centres of the world were never realistically an option for most teachers.

So, with that established, our average person has to do something to pay the bills and put food on the table, and teaching abroad ain't a bad option. If you're working in Asia you'll be earning many times the average salary, have access to tons of women that want to get to know you better, and you'll have have plenty of holidays. Not an elite tier career for sure, but a very comfortable life can be chiselled out in a fairly stress free environment (providing you don't end up working at a slave driving school).
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@joe30

I still disagree, my local banking branch manager makes $117K after taxes, maybe thats middle class in some places. What do you define a s a good job even in investment banking, sure there are the portfolio managers who make major coin in the 7 figures, but there are also client reps at Goldman and other investment who make very average middle income in the $50K range and junior employees can make $30K. Most people with ivy league degrees dont work in those finance houses, they start their own business or they work for business operations divisions in multinationals. There are a lot of investment bankers with humble education backgrounds that didnt go to Ivy league Unis.

The law firm example is different its not a broad a field as business is, there isnt much you can do with a law degree that isnt law (or politics). Yes the big magic circle firms are a pretty closed group, but thats because most law school grads cant afford to support themselves without a trust fund as the current condition is interning for a firm for half a decade for no salary while competing for a junior associate position. You need a network or connections take shortcuts.

I concur with your general benefits I got into DE for the holidays and the vacations and got into IT for the social opportunities.
joe30
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Re: How do i know a schools tier?

Post by joe30 »

I'm sure we can both agree it's far more difficult to get into investment banking than teaching though? IB jobs get hundreds of applicants per vacancy from some of the best and brightest of the generation (as it's well known these big finance houses pay big bucks). Whereas competition to get only post grad PGCE courses is largely non existent.

I'd define the good jobs in IB as working in the front office helping out on deals (the revenue generating side of the business). A new grad there can make 6 figures in their first year including bonuses - obviously much better than a teacher but most teachers wouldn't even get an interview for a job like that.

Teaching doesn't have anywhere near the same draw as the traditional high paying careers. If you had a degree from Harvard for example, teaching is a sub optimal move compared to other careers you could realistically have a good shot at. If you got your degree from some no name uni however, the general package of the ITs would look quite attractive.

In short the answer to the question 'if it's all about the money, why didn't you do career 'x'?' is frequently 'because 'x' was beyond my skillset'. It's a very small minority of people that can just walk into any career they choose - most just have to pick something that aligns with their general abilities and make the best of it.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@joe30

We would agree its more competitive to get into investment banking than teaching. Elite tier ISs can get a 1000 applications for a single vacancy. Otherwise thats false equivalency getting into an academic program (PGCE) is not getting a job. PGCE programs are no more or less competitive than PG business programs. Sure the PGC program at LoE is more difficult to get into but so is the PGCE program at Oxford.

Most bankers wouldnt get interviews and would get their applications binned at the 1st tier BSOs as well.

Again, what did you do at Harvard? Did you study theater arts, if so your not likely to be doing much more than any other theater arts student that didnt attend a NYC or CA Uni. Ill take Juilliard over a Harvard grad in that case.

We dont actually disagree, most DTs and then ITs basically couldnt make it in their profession doing whatever they studied either the market demand is extremely tight and requires substantial fortune or connection to get into, or their field is difficult to monetize. Science and STEM get a lot of attention but the job prospects in physics of a BS grad in classical physics is extremely low.

I would say its beyond the candidates education and experience profile, not their skill set. I know a number of engineers who have the maths competency to be investment bankers and financial advisors, but they cant walk into that field because they dont have the experience or education to competitively transition.
I also know an ICT DT/IT who went into law as a second career. He got a law degree, passed the bar and does administrative juvenile cases.
I would further argue that the opportunity burden is more a challenge factor then skill set. There are lots of business graduates that would be successful in investment banking but they dont have the opportunity either through connections or fortune to enter those fields without substantial challenges.
reisgio
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Re: How do i know a schools tier?

Post by reisgio »

Remember that forum contributor last year who just got a top job at a really high paying private school (I believe) in the US? I think that example demonstrates that water seeks its own level, meaning that if you are great, you will find the right fit for you (whether that be dictated by lifestyle or money). If you are average, you will also find average options. If you are below average you will find below average options in terms of money and lifestyle. As most international schools are average or below average educational institutions, it goes to figure that those that last longest in them are average or below average educators who are fine being surrounded by average or below average colleagues and/or students. It was heartened to find out that there are some great paying schools out there that pay well to great educators. There are also some amazing locations to live that attract great educators who are looking for that city's/country's lifestyle. I think the US election results will actually make the IT market become saturated by educators who are average to below average who are running from the new administration. This in turn will mean that International Schools will become more average to below average compared to domestic ones.
chilagringa
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Re: How do i know a schools tier?

Post by chilagringa »

@PsyGuy fine, I guess you're probably right about LCSA (although friends have also told me that Europe is decent for women), but, regardless, saying that access to easy-to-bed women is a main draw for most ITs is silly when most ITs are interested in men.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@chilagringa

Those female ITs that are interested in men are marrieds. When you look at the single social seeking IT pool it leans more towards men.
senator
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Re: How do i know a schools tier?

Post by senator »

Man, Psyguy, how many times have you been divorced?
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@senator

::giggle::
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