Visa Question

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b12r
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:47 pm

Visa Question

Post by b12r »

So three different schools in Beijing have placed openings up in the past 2 days which is awesome! However, two of the three schools have an excerpt under "hiring policy" that states a teacher must have 5 years of teaching experience for visa circumstances. I have continued to look and saw that under the "job opening" area that the only requirement for applying is 2 years of work experience.

I would email the school and ask but I feel like the odds of them responding are low. Anyone have any insight on this?
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Visa Question

Post by sid »

If you want to apply, apply. We can make guesses, but we don't have the certain answer.
My guess is that if they say 5 years, they mean 5 years. But what does it cost you to apply?
buffalofan
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:08 pm

Re: Visa Question

Post by buffalofan »

With China being a magnet for newbie teachers, I doubt the 5 year requirement is visa-related. More like the school just wants to cut down on the number of applicants.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

Its one of three scenarios:

1) The IS has a really poor reputation with the ministry of education and labor, and they need ITs with 5 years experience or the risk of the visa being rejected is two high. Usually these are third tier ISs that hired ETs.

2) The only requirement for a foreign expert permit in China is a Bachelors degree, there is no experience requirement. Likely the IS just wants to reduce and limit the number of applications.

3) Its an attempt to be more exclusive than they are and range restrict the salary scale. In such cases either the IS wants to artificially develop some prestige and status, or they will hire you with less experience but on a different salary scale. So the IS may have a salary scale for senior ITs thats 5-15 years, but then they have a junior IT scale thats 1-5 years. There might not actually be separate scales but you might just see a significant difference between year 4 and year 5, and you may find bands within each step that are missing (such as advance degrees) at the steps below 5.
Nomads
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: Visa Question

Post by Nomads »

b12,

The schools in China get the visa from different government agencies and the rules can vary region to region. At one time, the age limit for Shanghai was 65, but in Beijing it was 70. There is no one system. Additionally, the Chinese government has recently increased the requirements. The school I used to work for did indeed go from 2 years requirement to five. In many cases, it is the government requirement and the school does not have any wiggle room.

I agree with Sid, it never hurts to apply.
b12r
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Visa Question

Post by b12r »

Thanks for the advice! I am going to apply anyway just for the heck of it.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@ Nomads

That is incorrect, all visa are issued by the Ministry of Public Security. The rules are all the same, what happens is that different offices interpret the rules differently, and yes some just dont follow the rules, but this doesnt mean there are different rules.
Nomads
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: Visa Question

Post by Nomads »

Psyguy,

Have you worked in China and been responsible for getting staff visas? I have. My school had to go through one ministry and other schools in the same city as well as other schools in different cities when through a different ministry. It all depends upon how the school was founded.

I doubt you know the inner workings of every single school in China and how they get their visas enough to make such a declaration.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Psyguy

Yes, only data matters, every single visa is issued by the Ministry of Public Security. This is what is known as a fact.
Nomads
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: Visa Question

Post by Nomads »

The visa is issued by public security, however they have to be authorised by a different government ministry. For some schools, it is the ministry of education and for others it is the foreign ministry. The ministries have different offices in different parts of the country and when I was there, the offices applied the rules differently.

At my school, we could not get a visa for a teacher turning 65 and a school in another part of the country hired the teacher.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@Nomads

No they arent the Ministry of Public Security issues and authorizes all visas, they do not need authorization from any other ministry. What you are discussing is the channels available for submitting an application. The public access channel for a visa and immigration matters is the Public Security Bureau, but they got overwhelmed and it was a lot of work in many cities staffing immigration with commissioned officers. The Ministry of Public Security moved a lot of the channels to other agencies and ministries but Public security A) Needs no other ministries approval or authorization to issue a visa, and may deny a visa regardless of the endorsement or approval of any other ministry.

There are other Ministries other than Education and Foreign Affairs, that could sponsor a visa when it comes to IE. Ministry of Commerce would be able to sponsor a visa for investor or executive management for a new organization or IS. The Ministry of Cival Affairs could potentially sponsor a visa that may touch on IE. More common, the Ministry of Agriculture sponsors visas for a number of IE related programs in rural areas. A number of of IE programs and organizations in the fine and performing arts are sponsored for visas through the Ministry of Culture.
In general the Ministry of Education is the channel used when an IT is seeking an Experts license as part of their visa and immigration practice, and Foreign Affairs when the IT is not seeking an expert permit (skilled workers) or isnt eligible for one (unskilled workers), though these categories are more broad than those factors.

Yes, offices often apply and interpret rules and policies differently, and the further outside the supervision of the Central authority the more discretion they have. In the vast majority of those situations its the relationship and the resources the IS or organization wants to expand to build those relationships.

Your IS could have gotten a visa for the IT, you just didnt want to expend the resources to do it, the accurate term is you "wouldnt" get a visa for the IT turning 65.
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