Hello everyone!
I am beginning to research international teaching/schools and am interested in teaching abroad in the future. A bit about myself:
Male, 34 years old, married (wife is not a teacher), no kids
Masters Degree in European History (BA in History)
Certification in all social sciences
10 years teaching experience, 7 in IB program in U.S., currently teaching Economics and Theory of Knowledge
Varsity level head coach for 10 years
I spent several weeks in France in graduate school and have traveled to Europe several times and this is the area I would perhaps be most comfortable in but after some research I have found the cost of living and salaries just do not allow for much savings. Assuming you haven't been able to save much (and maybe you have) do those of you who have chosen Western Europe regret your choice? For those who are in Asia (China, Bangkok specifically), did you end up liking the area more than you thought you would?
I realize I haven't provided a lot of information/specifics regarding my experience but with my area being social sciences (not in-demand), is getting a good offer (not necessarily top-tier) possible? We would be living on my salary and would like some extra money for travel, but understand some sacrifices in other areas might be necessary.
Thanks in advance.
Seeking preliminary info about International Teaching
Re: Seeking preliminary info about International Teaching
Also forgot to add that I also teach World History at a community college.
Re: Seeking preliminary info about International Teaching
I can't speak directly on teaching in Western Europe, but I have travelled regularly between there and Asia (where I work) for the past 5 years or so. In a nutshell: I love Asia. I love the cultural differences, I love the low cost of living, I love how many weird (but good) little international schools there are, and I LOVE how much I can save here while still having an extremely high standard of living. Since I do visit family in WE quite a bit, I have looked for jobs in places like Warsaw, Madrid, Munich, and Paris. Ultimately, I always decide to stick with Asia. I think I'd enjoy living in any of these places and some of the schools would be a great fit professionally, but in the end it comes down to money. I have no complaints about my life now, so taking that much of a hit to my savings in order to live in Europe is a bridge I'm not quite ready to cross.
Edit: I should add that, as an upper level math teacher, the salaries I was offered were going to be just enough to pay for an apartment (much smaller than I'm used to), living expenses, and a couple of frugal international trips a year (instead of my current 4-5), while saving about 20,000-30,000 less than I currently do. Granted, I would still be able to put money away, but it just wouldn't be enough at my age to make me happy.
Edit: I should add that, as an upper level math teacher, the salaries I was offered were going to be just enough to pay for an apartment (much smaller than I'm used to), living expenses, and a couple of frugal international trips a year (instead of my current 4-5), while saving about 20,000-30,000 less than I currently do. Granted, I would still be able to put money away, but it just wouldn't be enough at my age to make me happy.
Re: Seeking preliminary info about International Teaching
Jamike,
Your background does make you marketable particularly the economics especially if you have taught IB. I have taught in Africa, Asia, and Middle East. We loved every school and enjoyed each country. Your best bet for having money to travel and savings would be Asia, Middle East or Eastern Europe. You can certainly make do in Western Europe, but you will have limited money to travel and it will be hard to save.
I would advise you to go into the process with an open mind. Focus more on the school and country rather than a set region. There are great places all around the world.
Your background does make you marketable particularly the economics especially if you have taught IB. I have taught in Africa, Asia, and Middle East. We loved every school and enjoyed each country. Your best bet for having money to travel and savings would be Asia, Middle East or Eastern Europe. You can certainly make do in Western Europe, but you will have limited money to travel and it will be hard to save.
I would advise you to go into the process with an open mind. Focus more on the school and country rather than a set region. There are great places all around the world.
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Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Seeking preliminary info about International Teaching
Zero regrets. Being frugal one can save in many places in Europe, and things are so close that one can still travel and do things. Sure, you don't save the way you do in Asia, but people don't generally come to WE with the goal of saving 30K a year. If you want Europe, then make it happen! I agree, you are pretty marketable, and without kids you can absolutely make it work. This board is somewhat Asia heavy, but those of us in Europe really generally do love it.
Nomads mentioned money for travel, but once you are in Europe you need not go far to get to the next cool destination. Paris is a weekend, Oktoberfest is an option, why not drive down to Venice or take a bus to Budapest? Quite frankly, with even just a hint of frugality one can still travel to places like Asia and Africa during breaks as well.
People move here to live the European life (not to get rich), and it really is all it is cracked up to be. ZERO regrets.
Nomads mentioned money for travel, but once you are in Europe you need not go far to get to the next cool destination. Paris is a weekend, Oktoberfest is an option, why not drive down to Venice or take a bus to Budapest? Quite frankly, with even just a hint of frugality one can still travel to places like Asia and Africa during breaks as well.
People move here to live the European life (not to get rich), and it really is all it is cracked up to be. ZERO regrets.
Response
I dont disagree with the prior forum contributors and there isnt anything wrong or invalid with their experience. Much of the issue is in the details.
First, your spouse isnt an IT but you have no kids, is your spouse just going to be taken care of, or is there some profession they practice that they would continue to do so that would increase your income?
One salary will mostly absorb your living costs and expenses. Many career ITs in WE dont need to save very much, because they are banking on obtaining citizenship/PR and collecting their social insurance pension from their WE region. They may have saving in the form of real property they reside in and some investments, but unlike Asia they dont need to save on their own.
Second, whats your goal?Are you and your spouse just looking to live the EU lifestyle for a couple years, essentially backpacking EU for grownups? You can be somewhere like Belgium and do weekend trips all over the EU relatively inexpensively and quickly. A Friday evening to Italy for espresso and gelato, Saturday in Germany for Oktoberfest and Sunday breakfast in Paris are all doable and are very affordable.
You are likely already vested in your DE pension program, so retiring out in the EU would give you two pensions and a very comfortable lifestyle were you to stay in the WE.
You are marketable to tier 1 ISs and highly marketable to tier 2 ISs (large concentration of IB ISs). You can get to the EU if you want to, and your wiling to sacrifice savings for lifestyle access. You can get past the door to elite tier ISs, in less desirable locations, do a few years there and youd likely be able to early recruit for elite tier ISs in EU.
I disagree with @Nomad, you appear to be the couple that has your heart set on a particular lifestyle that is location dependent. If you want to live the Mediterranean or WE lifestyle, no amount of greatness in an IS in China or Asia is going to substitute. Life isnt about work regardless of how great it is. Always choose location over IS is my rule. You can have a poor work experience but if you have something you love to go home to or leave work over than your just like everyone else who loves their life and hates their job. Thats a much better life than hating where you are, you start living at your IS and your work becomes your life.
Personally, I didnt save very much in the Asian locations I was in, either they were one of the little tigers that had such a high cost of living and living the lifestyle there wasnt much savings or yes there was savings but not much else to do, that didnt cost coin. So much depends on your lifestyle and your frugality, if your a pair of homebodies and your really committed to savings go to the ME or go to the hardship locations in Asia. If your doing this because you want to live the lifestyle, experience culture, sophistication, etc. Then you can pick a major capital city anywhere and find that, Asia tends to be more "psedo authentic", but if you want that EU life you arent going to find it outside the EU, and there isnt a substitution for it.
Only one of the little tigers in Asia would cause me any level of stress in deciding between competing locations compared to the WE. If you are in the right place (and thats really important) in the EU than I fully concur with @Thames Pirate, it really is all its cracked up to be, but outside that the WE tends to be overly romanticized. If you think living in the WE is going to be a Julia Roberts movie or your spouse will be like Kate Winslet stepping off the coach in Titanic, that sort of life is only really available to the wealthy. If sharing a liter of vino or espresso over some crusty baguette in a cafe overlooking the square is what you envision thats realistic.
First, your spouse isnt an IT but you have no kids, is your spouse just going to be taken care of, or is there some profession they practice that they would continue to do so that would increase your income?
One salary will mostly absorb your living costs and expenses. Many career ITs in WE dont need to save very much, because they are banking on obtaining citizenship/PR and collecting their social insurance pension from their WE region. They may have saving in the form of real property they reside in and some investments, but unlike Asia they dont need to save on their own.
Second, whats your goal?Are you and your spouse just looking to live the EU lifestyle for a couple years, essentially backpacking EU for grownups? You can be somewhere like Belgium and do weekend trips all over the EU relatively inexpensively and quickly. A Friday evening to Italy for espresso and gelato, Saturday in Germany for Oktoberfest and Sunday breakfast in Paris are all doable and are very affordable.
You are likely already vested in your DE pension program, so retiring out in the EU would give you two pensions and a very comfortable lifestyle were you to stay in the WE.
You are marketable to tier 1 ISs and highly marketable to tier 2 ISs (large concentration of IB ISs). You can get to the EU if you want to, and your wiling to sacrifice savings for lifestyle access. You can get past the door to elite tier ISs, in less desirable locations, do a few years there and youd likely be able to early recruit for elite tier ISs in EU.
I disagree with @Nomad, you appear to be the couple that has your heart set on a particular lifestyle that is location dependent. If you want to live the Mediterranean or WE lifestyle, no amount of greatness in an IS in China or Asia is going to substitute. Life isnt about work regardless of how great it is. Always choose location over IS is my rule. You can have a poor work experience but if you have something you love to go home to or leave work over than your just like everyone else who loves their life and hates their job. Thats a much better life than hating where you are, you start living at your IS and your work becomes your life.
Personally, I didnt save very much in the Asian locations I was in, either they were one of the little tigers that had such a high cost of living and living the lifestyle there wasnt much savings or yes there was savings but not much else to do, that didnt cost coin. So much depends on your lifestyle and your frugality, if your a pair of homebodies and your really committed to savings go to the ME or go to the hardship locations in Asia. If your doing this because you want to live the lifestyle, experience culture, sophistication, etc. Then you can pick a major capital city anywhere and find that, Asia tends to be more "psedo authentic", but if you want that EU life you arent going to find it outside the EU, and there isnt a substitution for it.
Only one of the little tigers in Asia would cause me any level of stress in deciding between competing locations compared to the WE. If you are in the right place (and thats really important) in the EU than I fully concur with @Thames Pirate, it really is all its cracked up to be, but outside that the WE tends to be overly romanticized. If you think living in the WE is going to be a Julia Roberts movie or your spouse will be like Kate Winslet stepping off the coach in Titanic, that sort of life is only really available to the wealthy. If sharing a liter of vino or espresso over some crusty baguette in a cafe overlooking the square is what you envision thats realistic.