May 2016 IB results

fine dude
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: SE Asia

May 2016 IB results

Post by fine dude »

How do you all feel about your students' IB results this year? How do they impact your career at your current school, especially your contract renewal? We are fortunate to have highly experienced faculty and quite academic students and our subject grades are significantly higher than the world average.
Dredge
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:25 pm
Location: Three continents, mentally and physically

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by Dredge »

I feel okay about the exams, not the internal assessments. They were atrocious. The whole school is aware of how underachieving this year's seniors were. I felt like I was teaching 7th graders. I am looking forward to this year with the new IA method in my content area. I am not worried at all about it affecting my contract renewal.
sitka
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by sitka »

I was happy for my students. Beat the world average by a fair margin, lots of 6s and 7s.
coughingfurballs
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:41 am

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by coughingfurballs »

What is a "good average"? Could someone give an approximate description of a below average, an average, and an above average class performance?

I don't teach IB, but my child is starting the Diploma program at our school next year.
fine dude
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: SE Asia

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by fine dude »

Getting a 5 in a higher level subject is usually above average. 6 is very good and 7 is the highest grade you can get. 4 is average and 3 is below average. If your child can do really well on the coursework (internally assessed by the teachers) by getting a 6 or 7, that could significantly increase the overall grade.
coughingfurballs
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:41 am

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by coughingfurballs »

Thanks fine dude!

Do the number scores correspond with traditional letter grades? For example, is a 6 a B, etc.?
fine dude
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: SE Asia

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by fine dude »

They don't, but for GPA calculation, some schools use an internal scale to convert the number grades to letters. For example, 7 being an A or A+, 6 being an A- or B+ depending on whether these number grades are on the higher or lower side. It all depends on how rigorous the school's grading policy is.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

@coughingfurballs

The IB publishes the following grade descriptors for its DP subjects which gives a pretty good BARS description:

http://www.ibo.org/contentassets/0b0b7a ... ors-en.pdf

They do not correspond to letter grades, but there is a lot of internal subjectivity to them getting a 6 at one IS is a real rigorous academic accomplishment, whereas at another IS a 6 just means you didnt get a 7, and a 5 means you showed up and turned some work in.

You rarely see 2s and 1s and when you do its almost always from a regulated DS and signifies a student that just isnt IB material or some drastic change in the student. Many IB programs are selective at an IS, its typically an optional track alongside a national track diploma. In BSs and ASs there really isnt any form of external assessment that is required. An AS can offer AP courses but the students take those exams externally. The same is similar in a BS, the IS can issue its own diploma and the students can register for IGCSE and A level exams. The IB is different you cant get an IB diploma without completing an IB program and exams, as such the IB program is often seen as an honors program for students (though some ISs have open IB programs) a lot of value in an IB IS is judged on the success of its students exam performance, ISs are naturally very protective of this and they wont admit or retain a student in the IB program who cant do the work. As a result you see a lot of high and above average scores due to range restriction.
fine dude
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: SE Asia

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by fine dude »

@PsyGuy
IB does offer certificate courses for students who don't want to do the diploma, where they don't have to do the extended essay, TOK, CAS etc. and still get to be in the same class as regular Diploma students.
IB also offers the career-related program (CP) for students interested in a skill-based career path right after high school, similar to apprenticeship model.
IB isn't really an honours program. People are just not aware of the alternative paths offered by the IBO.
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by Thames Pirate »

PsyGuy, that's not quite correct. At NO school does a 6 mean you just didn't get the 7. A 6 is always an academic accomplishment, and just turning in the work will not earn you a 5 since the score is based both on submitted work AND a test, but not on daily classwork. These are not scores given by a school or internally subjective. These are tests and other assessments sent out for scoring and internationally normed. Even the internal assessments are subject to international norming. For example, we upload the oral commentaries and our scores to a portal. IB selects a range and independently scores them to moderate our scores. If we are pretty much spot on as scorers, they leave them. If we score a tad high or low, they adjust the scores accordingly. If there are major problems with the scores, they review all of them. The same is true for all submitted IAs. Thus there is NOT subjective scoring by school. The whole thing is moderated and normed.

Even top schools have average IB scores for full IB in the mid-30s. Students take 6 tests (up to 42 points) plus can earn up to 3 points for their work in TOK and the EE. Furthermore, when schools report this number, they are only counting their full IB candidates, who often score slightly higher than the certificate candidates. They report numbers like 95% receiving their full diploma while leaving out that globally, that number is 80%--simply because those who aren't confident of success often opt for certificates in individual courses (a bit like getting an AP credit) rather than the full IB.

IB pushes toward the middle, so it is correct to say you don't see a ton of 1s and 2s. You see a lot of 3s, a TON of 4s, and a lot of 5s. In 2014, only 208 candidates--0.31%--earned the 45. Over 50% fell in the 26-35 range. For perhaps one of the most popular individual tests, English Lit A HL, only 3% scored a 7 and only an additional 18% scored a 6--and 0% scored a 1 or 2. Almost 80% of the candidates worldwide fell in the 3-4-5 range. In History HL (another popular test), only 2% scored a 7, while 5% scored a 2. The total mean for all subjects was a 4.7.

I hope that helps clarify some of the scoring.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@fine dude

Yes the IB offers certificates for courses, but students still need to be admitted to the IB program and ISs with closed/selective programs wont generally admit a student who cant get the diploma.

The CP program has no influence on IE, there are 114 DSs/ISs offering the CP program 76 of them are in the US, 10 are in the UK, 2 in CAN and 1 in Australia, of the remaining those that offer CP at ISs are:

ASIA:

Prem Tinsulanonda IS
Renaissance College
Shanghai Singapore IS

EUR:

ACS Egham IS (UK)
Berlin Brandenburg IS
BIS Stavanger
Broadgreen IS (UK)
Braeburn Garden Estate Secondary School
IS Geneva
Leipzig IS
Oeiras IS
Ryde School (UK)
BS Netherlands

ME:

Amman Baccalaureate School
Deira IS
École Oasis Internationale (FS)
Emirates IS
GEMS Wellington (2 ISs)
Greenfield Community School
Jumeira Baccalaureate School

Thats it 3 Asian ISs, 10 EUR (3 of them independent UK DSs) and 7 ME IS (1 of which is a French School), the others are regulated DSs. That significance is trivial within IE, even within the IB.

Yes, IB is very similar to a gifted and talented program. The CP program is not a viable and available vocational pathway to DIP in IE.

@Thames Pirate

No it is correct, there are a number of ISs where a 6 means you didnt get a 7. No, many ITs in ISs use the same IB marking scheme for internally moderated work. Yes there is externally moderated work and assessments but those are just that external. No the entire process is not normed, there is plenty of coursework that is subjectively marked entirely by the IT.

Those top IB ISs have scores in the mid 30's (which is very good) because as you described they are top IB ISs and they have selective/closed IB programs. Students are rarely allowed to continue in IB on the basis of just getting course certificates and the ones that do are screened for having the appropriate amplitude in the subject, they are not going to allow a student with marginal performance in a subject to attempt an IB certificate.

Thank you for otherwise agreeing with me.
fine dude
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: SE Asia

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by fine dude »

@PsyGuy
There are two kinds of people on this forum: those who speak from experience and other's using a search engine. Which one are you?
The whole point of creating a certificate course is for students who can't do the rigorous work needed to get a diploma. Certificate is neither closed nor selective. There are students who do part AP and part IB certificate courses. You can even take select IB courses these days online through Pamoja Education.

The career path program has influence on students' lives, which means it will impact international education in the long run. Not every IB student wants to attend a 3 or 4-year college. Some just want to take up a skill that they are passionate about and make a living right after high school.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@fine dude

There are more than two groups of contributors to the forum membership, there is for example a third group that divides the forum into variations of two groups of contributors.

That may very well be the IB intent on a white paper (and actually Ill concede that it is) but how the IB program functions in DE as part of a regulated education system and how it functions in IE which is predominately independent education the two are different creatures. No parent is going to say my child isnt up to the IB program, and if the parent still wants to drop the coin on fees there is an internal IS track that will give that student a diploma.

That is wholly wrong, admission to an IB program whether a certificate in DIP or even MYP is solely at the discretion and direction of the IS and specifically the IB coordinator. No one has a right to IB, and there is no self selection route like there is with AP. Yes you can take individual online course (and even courses at other IB institutions through the Open IB) but those services and opportunities much like an ISs are at the discretion and direction of those institutions. If an IS wont permit you to take a course exam for a certificate, then the student cant. ISs have first and arguably foremost a reputation to maintain and their exam results even for certificates, and arguably thats what every student is doing until AFTER all their marks are in and they have completed the IB core (CAS/EE/TOK) and they have enough points to have earned the Baccalaureate Diploma, if you dont have enough points all your left with is some IB course certificates, those ISs can and most of them do run selective admission programs into their IB DIP program.

That is a well parsed statement, sure CP has influence on some students lives, its growing in DE, but again IE is a different creature. The CP program in IB has no significant impact or contribution to IE now, and I dont see it being a major or even noticeable factor in IE at any time in the foreseeable future. Parents arent paying fees so their child can do a vocational career path, they want their kids in the best Uni possible, if that was really where the student was going they wouldnt be in IE, they would be at a local municipal DS. Even the ones that due want a vocational path recognize the value of a secondary school laving certificate and in IE thats either going to be the ISs NC certificate route or the IB Baccalaureate Diploma even if they dont go to Uni.
CP is a curiosity in IE, nothing more.
fine dude
Posts: 651
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:12 pm
Location: SE Asia

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by fine dude »

Only a handful of IB schools can afford a selective admissions policy. There are tons of IB schools who have an open admission policy. They just want more income, pure and simple. Well, they care about results, but not at the cost of their income. I have seen hundreds of EAL and learning support students complete certificate courses, who got 4s and even 3s. Did they bring down the school average? Yes, in some years, but they graduated with a high school diploma. In my DP experience, I have never seen a coordinator who didn't support these students.
Students choosing the IB career path is still a minority and we all know that, but not every expat student can attend a local public school without mastering the foreign language. So, International Schools offering CP can accommodate students' who don't want to pursue a college degree. Some just want to attend a vocational program and their parents are happy about it. Again, I'm speaking from two decades of IB DP teaching experience.
Did you ever teach the DP?
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: May 2016 IB results

Post by Thames Pirate »

@Psyguy

Um, NO. Most schools have a range of students just taking the course, certificate candidates, and full IB candidates. A range of learners can be successful in the program; it is NOT a gifted program. I have taught it at a public school with no selective admissions, and virtually every student can access the learning. The program allows for acceleration, certainly, but it is not a gifted program. Plenty of parents say the full IB is not for their child for a range of reasons, too. Many of these students do, however, opt for certificates in strong subjects. Our experience has been that the IB in DE and IE are remarkably similar in most regards, including this.

Yes, ISs are able to deny admissions, and they often don't take students with the most severe learning disabilities. However, if you look at admissions policies of most schools, you will find that as long as students are not dramatically behind and don't have major behavioral concerns, they can be admitted (provided they can pay the fees, of course!). Furthermore, a quick look at a range of top schools shows that a few require that students sit exams for courses they take, none require the full IB but offer course options. In other words, they don't expect everyone to go for the full IB. However, it is the full IB results they usually publish, so it is in their best interest to allow course only options.

Internal assessments are STILL MODERATED externally. Coursework is coursework, and teachers are free to use whatever marking scheme they want--grade bands that translate the 1-7 into percentages or letter grades, scoring coursework independently of IB work, whatever. That is up to the individual school. IB work, however, is scored according to the standard. So if a teacher hands out 7s like candy on coursework and then turns those into whatever letter or number marks the school uses, that is his or her business. It has no bearing on actual international scores. I suppose theoretically there might be teachers who do that, but no educator I know would hand out 7s on coursework only to change the scoring for the IAs. Talk about creating a problem and inflating grades!

Those top ISs have scores at the top end of the average range, but a score of 35 assumes something like 5s and 6s with perhaps one or two of the extra points. That is really great, particularly as an average! However, that makes it clear that there are students below that number as well as above. In other words, students at these schools are still getting straight 5s or 4s and 5s. Again, this is just for their IB candidates, and I don't know where you are getting the idea that they are not allowing students to simply get the certificates. This is just plain nonsense.
Post Reply