Credential Question

fitlee
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:03 pm

Credential Question

Post by fitlee »

After reading more than dozen of posts, I think I have little bit of basic idea how this credential hunting game works. However, each person situation can be different. Please allow me to share my situation.

Most of my work/education experiences are from the States. My bachelor degree was in electrical engineering which I never used it. Instead, I taught piano privately for 10 years. After that, I studied my master in music education. Then, taught two years k-8 music in a private church school in CA. During that time, my school helped me to apply a temporary teaching certificate from ACSI (Association of Christian Schools International) which was expired in Jan 2016. This school year, my third year, I am teaching a 3rd tier IS in China. Although my current contract is one year, I will do one more year to avoid a 1 year job experience on my CV. And, I have dual citizenship in HKG and USA.

When I research into which program I want to study, I run in to some program only offer secondary or elementary level. However, I do not want to limit my future by age group. So far, I feel that I like both older and younger kids.

My short term goal: To have a teaching credential before hiring season for 2017-2018. So that, I may find a better job in HK/Singapore/Taiwan/Malaysia. Preferably, get my credential done before Oct/Nov 2016. But, putting on resume that I am working toward that credential is still good because I believe I can get it before school start in Aug 2017 if not sooner. After teaching internationally, I kind of like it and have no plan to move back to States with a lower salary and the excitement yet.

Originally, my 6 weeks summer plan is to go back to the States and study 3 weeks in two music classes, do some volunteering works and travel in South America. Now, I may want to dedicate sometimes for the credential thing like preparing for the PRAXIS if I needed to.

---
Enough of my background, here is my brief understand of different state program. I listed it in the order that I think it fit my situation the best.

HI: I will have three years experience by the end of this school year (2 in CA , 1 in IS China). No need to go through a prep program. But, not sure what other procedure I need like do I need any PRAXIS exam.

CT: No prep program, no subject specific exam but PRAXIS 5001 exam

NJ (New Jersey): a CE (Certificate of Eligibility), No need to go through a prep program but need to take appropriate PRAXIS exam

FL: Teacher Ready

DC: Teacher Now. My friend loves it since you can get a Master degree in global teaching (?) if you do the one year program. But, I am not sure I really need another Master???

I guess my question is whether there are any states that do not require test and prep program base on my experience/education.

If not, how do I prepare a music PRAXIS exam? Usually how long does it take to prep it?

Thanks!!!
PsyGuy
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Response

Post by PsyGuy »

1) HI requires an EPP/ITT (program).

2) NJ would require you meet the Hygiene component (its a short test, but you have to take it in NJ). There is also an additional meds/peds course called the 24 hour course, again youd have to take it in NJ but its only a week/weekend long.

3) Dont listen to your friend. The Teach Now Masters programs and degrees are essentially unaccredited, they arent worth much more than the paper they are printed on, and they arent worth the fees/tuition.

CA has a experiential route to certification but it is NOT recommended.

With your background Music PRAXIS preparation would involve not having a hangover and getting plenty of sleep the night before, eat a light breakfast. The test is essentially: A) To determine you arent tone deaf and B) Can read sheet music.
fitlee
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:03 pm

Re: Credential Question

Post by fitlee »

Thank so much PsyGuy for your insight and encouragement.

Seems like I am going to spend sometime in NJ this summer :-)

1) After doing some more read up on the website and your opinion, it seems like the quickest and easiest to get the credential would be doing the NJ route. Any drawback?

2) As I read from other posts, the strategy after getting the NJ CE, I should then apply the UK QTS? And that's it? Maybe CA as well?


3) Any idea how long does it take to get the CE after I finish everything?

4) Since I didn't do my undergard in music, I may miss some topic in the PRAXIS. Any idea on Test prep for PRAXIS?

5) According to http://www.state.nj.us/education/educat ... ctcert.htm

"Achieve a cumulative GPA of at least 2.75 when a GPA of 4.00 equals an A grade in a baccalaureate degree program, higher degree program or in a State-approved post-baccalaureate certification program with a minimum of 13 semester-hour credits;"

My Uni which I get my bachelor GPA is 2.5 (about 4 years), community college is 3.8 (my first college year; 1 year), grad school 1 is 3.00 (1 year) , grad school 2 is 3.15 (1 year)... When I average out, it is 2.85. Am I OK?

Thanks!
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@fitlee

The CT program would be my recommendation.

The drawbacks of the NJ CE program is that you have to travel to NJ and complete credentialing requirements in NJ. The other issue is that the CE is more likely to encounter recognition issues.

You would certainly want to try and apply for QTS, you have a lower probability of being granted QTS with a NJ CE than you would with a CT initial certificate. The current NJ system only recently changed, the recognition of a CE by the TCL hasnt really been tested sufficiently.
However if approved yes thats it.

Summer in the US is always a busy time for application processing, it could take most of the summer before the CE is issued.

You have a Masters in Music Education and have been teaching Piano for 10 years, there really isnt much to prepare for. If you can read music and your not tone deaf you will do define.

Sure... Your GPA is okay.
fitlee
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:03 pm

Re: Credential Question

Post by fitlee »

@PsyGuy
"The other issue is that the CE is more likely to encounter recognition issues. "

Just talked to my current principle today. He has a very negative impression on CE.
I guess you get what you pay for. Less effort, then less recognized.


----------------------------------------------------

1. ) Since getting QTS through NJ CE has a lower chance, can NJ CE do any reciprocity with other states' credential ? If not, it seems like a dead end.
2.) If NJ CE can not help me to get other state credential, I am seriously consider Connecticut credential.
3.) But I am really confused with the requirement like
a. Statement of Preparing Higher Education Institution; and/or
 b. Statement of Professional Experience and
c. copy of out-of-state certificate/license for applicants with prior teaching experience

And, I am evaluating different options for my career and job changing opportunity for 2017-2018 school year
1.) pursue Connecticut credential and then QTS, back to CA
2.) Do Teacher Ready/Now
3.) Do NJ CE first and then see what happen with my job search and QTS reciprocity
4.) Do NJ CE first and then start doing Teacher Ready/Now for maximum job opportunity
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@fitlee

1) I share some of the same feelings as your Principal. What it does is give you a lifetime credential (no renewal at all) that is just on the right side of legal educator. Its absolutely true that the CE meets eligibility requirements to work as a professional educator in the HOR jurisdiction, and unlike many other states that have a similar credential, the NJ CE does not expire. That doesnt mean there arent recognition issues.

Potentially Yes, the NJ CE would likely be accepted for reciprocity in Texas. Texas only has one class/level of educator certification. You would apply for a reciprocity review, have finger prints done, and then take the Texas certification exams and you would then have a Texas Standard license. D.C. would potentially offer a similar pathway. The change in NJ rules was very recent and reciprocity using the CE hasnt really been tested.
The other option is that a number of states would recognize the CE as an equivalent initial license. You could use the CE teach for three years and then be eligible for a HI standard certificate. You could use the CE, teach for 2 years, add ESOL (actually a second CE) and complete a masters and then be eligible for a CA CLEAR credential.

The CE may very well be a dead end, but it might be at a place your comfortable with. If you were a couple and a spouse who is a IT got a last minute offer in June, but they need the other spouse to teach primary or EC, the CE is a credential you could complete over the summer, and meet the offer requirements.

2) There isnt much difference between the CT initial credential and the NJ CE credential, they are both NASDTEC class 2 credentials. The only difference is the CT credential requires experience and the NJ credential requires course work. Both of them require PRAXIS testing and a Bachelors degree. The CT credential is going to have better recognition, the NJ credential has lifetime validity.

3) There are two routes to CT certification one by completing an EPP/ITT program, the other by experience. If you apply by completing an EPP program you complete the "Statement of Preparing Higher Education Institution", its the UNIs recommendation form for certification. If you are applying though the experience route (2 years K-12 classroom experience as HOR) than you complete "Statement of Professional Experience" completed by your employer.
If you have a prior/previous teacher certification, than you need to include that as well (if you dont than you dont send them a copy of a certificate you dont have).

4) Start with the CT credential (assuming you have the 2 years experience) its the route you can be done in a week, with the least amount of cost and effort. Register for the appropriate PRAXIS exam, and get your application documents in order.
Then determine the cost in travel, time and fees for the CE.
There is no reason to do Teach Now or Teach Ready if you can get one of those two certifications.
fitlee
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:03 pm

Re: Credential Question

Post by fitlee »

Thanks PsyGuy again

1) Recognition is a huge problem. My principle (a Brit) doesn’t even believe CE is a credential. That is huge problem if I want to use that to find a new job.

1a) BTW, what is HOR?
From what I read somewhere online, I think the NJ CE is changing again with more hours in the prep course. If I did not misread, it will be from the 24 hours course to 200 hours by 9/1/2016.

1b) Also, what is ESOL (actually a second CE) ? I am interested in CA CLEAR credential. My principle also confirmed that he heard that CA credential has a higher prestige on their credential. And, I may want to retire in CA. It may not be a bad idea to be a sub teacher or part time. And, it can be my 5 year career goal.
Yeah CE seems to be a good emergency backup plan

4.) With my situation, CT seems like a easier choice. It got no hygiene test, 24 hour teacher prep course and requirement to fly to NJ.

5.) From my conversation with my principle, he really concern whether the credential actually prove that the teacher has proper teacher training especially on following a mentor. I agree with him. My professor in grad school for my music education degree was my mentor when I was doing my practicum. I learned so much and tried many new strategies for my teaching. With my reflection on my weakness, I also see that I may miss some knowledge like children development/psychology, education theory comparing to those who went through a teacher prep program. Maybe I can take those classes from Summer? Any feedback/recommendation? I may need a lot of PD hours anyway for the CA clear credential.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@fitlee

1) Well its a credential, you can go to the following page, and click on "CE" for any of the major subject areas and one of the first statements found is: "This endorsement entitles the holder to teach __________ in all public schools.". Your principal can think what they will on the quality of the credential, but it meets the legal definition of permitting the IT to provide the designated professional instructional services.

http://www.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/educatio ... type=teach

Are there recognition issues, yes, but they are issues of preference not technical or legal issues of the validity of the credential.

2) HOR = Home of Record, its a DODEA term but it works well when referring to your residence of origin, or wherever you call home is.

3) Its not changing, the 24 hr course and the 200 hr course are different courses at different stages of the process in getting to the NJ Standard credential. There are two pathways of getting to the NJ Standard credential. One pathway involves completing an EPP/ITT program in which case you qualify for a CEAS (Certificate of Eligibility with Advance Standing). The other route is the CE route and its the "experience" based route thats more like an apprenticeship route. The 24 course is the first course you take to qualify for the CE, the 200 hr course is the one you take after you have the CE and are working in a NJ DS doing the induction/training program. The 200 hr course provides the academic meds/peds based content is learned by the DT candidate as part of the in classroom training.

4) ESOL = English to Speakers of Other Languages. Its a generic term that includes various fors of English Language Instruction ESL (English as a Second Language), EFL (English as a Foreign Language), EAL (English as an Additional Language), etc..

There are two main requirements that you need for a CA CLEAR credential, one is a Masters degree, the other is meeting the CLAD (English Learner Authorization). As an out of state applicant the only way to meet the CLAD requirement is by having a state certification in an ESOL area. In NJ with a CE this would mean applying for a second CE in "English as a Second Language". The only additional requirement for this second CE would be passing the appropriate English Language proficiency test.

5) I agree, you can take the PRAXIS anywhere. When applying for the CT certificate apply for the subject area that matches your degree/major.

6) I dont disagree with your principal, 24 hrs is equivalent to about 1.5 credit units, thats about half of a single, traditional 3 credit unit course you would find in a UNI. That doesnt prepare anyone to do much of anything without any work based experience component, or anything else. The issue though isnt what makes a good, high quality preparation program, its what constitutes a valid and legal professional teaching credential, and the NJ CE pathway is the shortest least involved means of obtaining that credential.

Most professors profess the value of higher education, it promotes their job security. Education departments with lots of faculty needs lots of students paying tuition to maintain the salaries of all those faculty.
I would much rather see teacher candidates spending more time on the lectern side of the classroom than the desk side of the classroom. The general consensus in education is that EPP/ITT academic programs dont really prepare candidates for the realities of teaching. Its the primary factor cited for the large degree of attrition in the teaching field. Teaching as its taught just isnt how its practiced in DE.

7) The CA CLEAR credential does not require any PD requirements. Every 5 years you login, certify your suitability, pay your fee and then you get another 5 years.

You can do whatever classes or coursework you want. None of them are particularly valuable to the success of a high performing/quality DT/IT. Child/Adolescent psychology as its taught isnt very useful. Children discover hormones at some point, care about them and listen to them, and the rest is just answers on a test. Piaget's Psycho-Social stages of development isnt very useful in an actual classroom where your students suddenly become fascinated and preoccupied with touching one another, and some student yells "stop touching me". You can contemplate the academics all you want, or you can tell the offender to sit on their hands and if that doesnt work re-seat them. The psychology isnt very useful.
Educational theory consists of the history of Pop.Ed, all the ideas that were just variations on a theme that either didnt work to begin with or does work, and everyone knows it, but you give it a new name and acronym and you can make some coin off it.
Most meds/peds courses focus on creating lesson plans for professors that you would never use yourself, or youd spend half the instructional period just finding the point in the lesson youre at and reading it. Your assessment course will involve statistical terms and concepts that you will likely never use. At best they will help you understand reports and white papers that cite various statistics. Most DTs/ITs just open the book, pull some questions and call it a day.
fitlee
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Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:03 pm

Re: Credential Question

Post by fitlee »

After 5 months, I turned in all my transcripts, passed my praxis, school working proof, etc. CT education department still requires the following:

To meet general education requirements:
A survey course in United States history (of not fewer than three semester hours of credit);

To meet professional education requirements:
An additional 12 semester hours of credit in professional education course work including the following:
Foundations of education;
Educational psychology;
Curriculum and methods of testing music; and
An approved course of study in special education including the gifted and talented.

I am just wondering is CT still the best route for getting my credential.
joe30
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Re: Credential Question

Post by joe30 »

Wait, so for Americans to get a teaching credential, all they have to do is complete some weekend course? While in the UK we have to do a year?

Out of interest...can anyone fly to NJ and do that weekend course, or is it only open to US citizens?
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@fitlee

That was my main caveat, that the assumption is your experience would be accepted. The CT DOE basically denied all of your work experience making you ineligible for the experiential route, and you have no EPP/ITT program which is why you have full deficiencies.

Fortunately for you, UT (Utah) has a solution for you called the Academic Pathway to Teaching (June 2016). It requires no experience and no EPP program. It requires a degree in the certification field and passage of the PRAXIS exam (exam 5113, passing score 156) in addition to a CRB:

http://www.schools.utah.gov/cert/APT.aspx

Advantages:

1) 3 year credential that is renewable indefinitely.
2) Low fee, only $40
3) No EPP/ITT program and no experience requirement

Disadvantages:

1) The credential has some serious reciprocity requirements, other regulatory authorities are unlikely to accept it. It may be accepted for QTS until the TCL figures things out.
2) You can not add endorsement areas, and you can not receive a K-12 credential, you would receive a secondary (6-12) music credential only.
3) There is no prestige or status with the credential, its going to make you legal and thats about it.
4) Without teaching in UT you would never be able to transition the license to a higher credential.

You will receive more time if you apply in January (after January 1) but otherwise you would be eligible now. You can access the website here:

http://www.schools.utah.gov/cert/APT.aspx

As a further option using the UT license you can work in an IS that the CT DOE will accept towards certification through the experiential pathway and then apply for CT. Once you have the CT credential you could apply for the HI credential, add ESOL as an endorsement through the PRAXIS and then apply for a CA CLEAR credential.
You could also try applying to HI for the entry (initial credential) using the UT credential, but I doubt it would be successful.

@joe30

You dont even need to attend a weekend course, youd be eligible for a UT credential with just a bachelors degree and a PRAXIS (subject exam). No EPP/ITT program, you can then apply for QTS (at least until the TCL figures things out) and receive full QTS (no induction/NQT year).

NJ has some esoteric requirements, your QTS would likely be accepted and then with 2 years experience and passing the appropriate PRAXIS (or other acceptable exam) you would be able to obtain a non-citizen standard credential (5 years) which is not renewable unless you essentially become a US citizen.
Anyone could take the weekend course and the hygiene exam, but you would only be eligible for the non-citizen standard credential, which is practically un-renewable from an IE perspective.
joe30
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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:10 am

Re: Credential Question

Post by joe30 »

Hmm...

Currently pondering why exactly I'm putting up with a year in the UK to do this PGCE when I could have just done some easy exam in the US to get a teaching licence.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@fitlee

Did you ask the CT DOE why they didnt accept your teaching experience towards the experiential pathway?

@joe30

Two years if you do induction.

You still could, there is a PRAXIS testing center in England (with testing centers in London, Bristol and Manchester), theres no reason to even visit the US. Complete the CRB requirement which consists of fingerprint cards beings sent to you and having them rolled at the police, identity services desk. After passing the exam, submit your supporting documents (transcripts) and application. Get your UT credential and apply for QTS as an OTT. You could be done before the term starts in January. Even if you completed the PGCE, youd save yourself an induction year and have full QTS as opposed to having to be a NQT.
joe30
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Re: Credential Question

Post by joe30 »

I won't be doing induction for sure. No way can I handle this country for two years. One is bad enough.

Might be worth getting that QTS via the American route, waiting until January before ditching the PGCE course (since I might as well get the next terms student loan cash). Doing that would seem to save me from having to do the final two placements of my course to get QTS, freeing up those 7 months for something far more important like sitting on a beach in Thailand with a few beers. Then start work at a third tier international next September just like was the plan all along.

Going to look into this a bit more. With the UT credential you can only get certified in your undergrad degree area, yes? If I went the NJ route could I get a general elementary certification? Since my undergrad subject isn't exactly a high demand area at IS's.
PsyGuy
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Post by PsyGuy »

@joe30

You can do induction at an international BSO outside the UK.

Your degree subject does not matter when applying for the UT elementary/primary (K-6) APT credential. Only passage of the PRAXIS exam. For secondary subjects academic preparation matters, while you dont exactly need a degree/major in the certifying field your application can be denied if you dont have sufficient preparation. This is a very new credential (June 2016) and the UT DOE is still working out what definitions mean and their impact.

Yes, you could potentially get the NJ CE, NJ requires a liberal arts preparation with dispersion of courses over a broad range of topics for elementary/primary certification.
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