Alcohol

chilagringa
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm

Alcohol

Post by chilagringa »

Is there a big drinking culture at most international schools? I really like my school, and it's got a lively social scene, but it seems like practically everyone is a big drinker! I drink a bit, but not drink-to-get-wasted (at least not that often). I was just wondering if this is the norm? I like the collegiality of being friends with coworkers, though.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Alcohol

Post by shadowjack »

The culture depends on location, availability, staff average age, host culture, personal preference, and more.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

I would say yes, there tend to be two groups the 'singles', and this covers ITs of all ages. Its not just the 20 somethings who need to get their p@rty on, its a lot of divorced/single ITs in their 30s and 40s who came too [insert Asian country) who hit up the local night scene weekly/daily. Then you have the 'marrieds' who basically go home to their spouses and kids. Teaching couples (no kids) tend to do the happyhour Friday crowd but not the all night c1ub activity.

All that said a lot of ITs went into IE because they were running from something and a1coho1 tends to be the self medication of choice.
marina
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: Alcohol

Post by marina »

Every expat except for me appears to be addicted to something at my Brazilian international school. And for good reason - Brazil is an alcohol-soaked mess and the school is even worse! Students throw all-night drug-fueled parties each weekend that apparently cost in excess of $200,000 a pop. Only chronic substance-abusers could stand it, as Brazil is beautiful when on something. Being constantly inebriated would make an expat still slightly more productive than a sober local.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Inquiry

Post by PsyGuy »

@marina

I get the impression from your recent posts that your experience in Brazil and IE was not 'positive'? Care to elaborate (without naming the IS)?

I only ask because I love Brazil, if I could make the coin in Brazil you find in more economically advantageous locations I could retire out in Brazil. Then again Im more the type of person you would describe as part of the problem with Brazil. My reasons why Brazil is so awesome:

1) The Beaches, if your on the coast its a sand and surf paradise.
2) The woman are absolutely some of the most beautiful in the world. Even the average woman is a 7 or 8.
3) Its cheap, if your on any type of decent OSH package you can afford a high standard of living.
4) Brazilians really know how to have fun and relax, its not a work yourself to death culture.
5) Ive been told that for IT single woman LCSA is one of the few places they do as well as men in Asia do as far as a dating scene goes.
6) The food is pretty simple but as long as its hot you wont get sick and its got a great compliment of tropical and spice flavors that few people seem to hate.
7) The standards at ISs tend to be less work compared to their tier level counterparts in other regions. As long as the kids get high marks, the parents are happy, and your leadership is happy. You basically have to work hard your first year and after that youre done.
8) They seem to have a holiday, festival, celebration for everything. There isnt a weekend that goes by that there isnt something going on. Something to do.
9) Domestic help and navigating the culture is pretty easy, you can pay people to do most of the things youd normally do yourself. Theres a lot of English spoken.
10) Its one of the few places that you can get anything in the world if you can afford it. A lot of stuff moves through Brazil.
Monkey
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:59 am

Re: Alcohol

Post by Monkey »

Yes. Or at least it's been true at all of my ISs. All three have been very different schools, so the reasons might be different, but in all three a lot of drinking happened. In the first school, the staff was quite young and single--lots of drinking. Second school, youngish and mostly single--lots of drinking, even though we were in the ME. Third school--staff skews older and married, but still lots of drinking. This time I like to blame it on the high numbers of Australians on staff. ;)

But for whatever reason, ITs like to ..
mamava
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 7:56 am

Re: Alcohol

Post by mamava »

I would agree that I've definitely seen more drinking at international schools than I ever saw back in the States. One of the reasons might be that at international schools colleagues are thrown together socially more and more intensely than we were back in the States, so you see more of what your co-workers do.

On another note, this is the 2nd pretty negative post about Brazil that I've seen and I would like to counter it a bit. We are in our first year here and have not experienced what the poster is saying. Working in ANY country requires an adjustment to the culture, to the ways of doing things, to the people, to the students. A good school goes a long way to making this work, of course, but none of the poster's comments about Brazil are like what I've experienced.

When I've commented on a place I that wasn't a good fit for me I try to phrase it as "We found that _____ was a big challenge in living there" or "For us, it was hard to work with the issues of ___________" rather than pick up a brush and paint a country and a people. Some of the things we hated about living in the ME were absolutely not a problem for so many other people living here--and presumably not for others who are thinking of going there. I'm only 1 perspective.
senator
Posts: 384
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:53 am

Re: Alcohol

Post by senator »

In one of the schools I taught at in China, you could smell the alcohol coming out of the pores of some teachers every morning.

Asia, due to the permissive and tropical life, combined with the crazy cheap beer, easily lends itself to abuses.

Who really cares? Let them drink themselves into an incompetent stupor - you may have to compete with them for a job one day and the weaker they are the better for you.
chilagringa
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm

Re: Alcohol

Post by chilagringa »

Interesting responses!

At my school, I've heard the rumor that high school students will take bets on who will come in to work hungover after the staff parties. Not sure if it's true or not.

Is it just an expat thing? Is there something about being an expat that makes people go wild?
heyteach
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 3:50 pm
Location: Home

Re: Alcohol

Post by heyteach »

I think part of it is an expat thing, and also what mamava said about being thrown together with your colleagues more.

I lived in Ecuador for several years, which is touted as a retiree paradise for North Americans. I met quite a few of those expats or potential expats, and they often expressed being bored or unhappy at home. The potentials had all these grand dreams (become fluent in Spanish, have an organic truck garden, take up painting, etc). All too often, the ones that had made the move and been there a couple of years, after the initial excitement had worn off, were drinking before noon because they were...bored and unhappy.

So I think you need to ensure you already have interests, or the flexibility to develop new ones, before you insert yourself into a school overseas. It'll be fun playing tourist the first few months, but eventually you'll be spending weekends at home, and what will you do? In another country with a large expat population (workers, not retirees), I joined the women's guild just to get to meet people who weren't my (hard drinking) colleagues, and even created a plein air painting group under its auspices.
marina
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:31 pm

Re: Inquiry

Post by marina »

PsyGuy, let me disabuse you of a few, but not all of your notions.

A. I am at one of the top two international schools in Brazil; it has been a positive and negative experience
B. It is possible to make coin here if you are single and live on the local economy

Specifically in response to your points.

1. True
2. True physically, though mentally is another story; the best catches want Brazilian men, not expats
3. True
4. True, but if you have high standards as an educational professional, you will be frustrated
5. True if you are an outgoing woman eager to speak/learn Portuguese
6. Food sucks except for fruit, which needs to be treated before eating
7. True, but again, if you actually have high standards and want your students to learn you will run into issues
8. True
9. Domestic help is cheap BUT English is not spoken by almost anyone other than those affiliated with the international school and hotels + the culture is not Western or Eastern; it's Brazilian. Nothing else like it on Earth. Impossible to penetrate the web of social networks that exist above and below the surface
10. Wrong - only super rich can afford anything, everyone else has to suffer in mercantilist closed economy that benefits the powers that be. Sure, order something on Amazon for $100 that you can't find in Brazil and be ready to pay $400-$600 import fee on top to make your total cost up to $700. A teacher can't do this but your students' parents who own OGLOBO or PHONE COMPANY can. Most basic items that can be found in 2nd and 3rd world countries can't be found in Brazil and quality of local products is horrible.

Overall, Brazil is great for the right person. I have nothing against it, but it is certainly an acquired taste and remember that Brazil is not for Beginners.

PsyGuy wrote:
> @marina
>
> I get the impression from your recent posts that your experience in Brazil
> and IE was not 'positive'? Care to elaborate (without naming the IS)?
>
> I only ask because I love Brazil, if I could make the coin in Brazil you
> find in more economically advantageous locations I could retire out in
> Brazil. Then again Im more the type of person you would describe as part of
> the problem with Brazil. My reasons why Brazil is so awesome:
>
> 1) The Beaches, if your on the coast its a sand and surf paradise.
> 2) The woman are absolutely some of the most beautiful in the world. Even
> the average woman is a 7 or 8.
> 3) Its cheap, if your on any type of decent OSH package you can afford a
> high standard of living.
> 4) Brazilians really know how to have fun and relax, its not a work
> yourself to death culture.
> 5) Ive been told that for IT single woman LCSA is one of the few places
> they do as well as men in Asia do as far as a dating scene goes.
> 6) The food is pretty simple but as long as its hot you wont get sick and
> its got a great compliment of tropical and spice flavors that few people
> seem to hate.
> 7) The standards at ISs tend to be less work compared to their tier level
> counterparts in other regions. As long as the kids get high marks, the
> parents are happy, and your leadership is happy. You basically have to work
> hard your first year and after that youre done.
> 8) They seem to have a holiday, festival, celebration for everything. There
> isnt a weekend that goes by that there isnt something going on. Something
> to do.
> 9) Domestic help and navigating the culture is pretty easy, you can pay
> people to do most of the things youd normally do yourself. Theres a lot of
> English spoken.
> 10) Its one of the few places that you can get anything in the world if you
> can afford it. A lot of stuff moves through Brazil.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@chilagringa

Its an expat thing. Your an alien in a foreign culture, the pressure to conform and constrain your behavior isnt there since expats dont see themselves as part of the community. That and many expats are running from or towards something.

@marina

A) Heard a lot of negatives, not so much on the positives.
B) Sure you can make coin, but not Swiss levels of coin or ME coin. To that end its not even Asia levels of coin.

2) Im not competitive for the best catches anywhere, and most ITs arent in that category either. Every region has its uber wealthy, ITs might be rich as far as economic parity but theres a wealthy person in that same economy who is paying that ITs salary.

4) I like to lower my standards to the point where Im already meeting them.

5) If your looking for wedding bells sure I can agree with that otherwise not really. Men arent very difficult creatures to understand. Whats there to know? "Want to dance", "Im not married", "Ive had a lot to drink", "Is your place nearby", followed by sweating and animal noises. Its pretty much universal, people recognize other people who are looking to have fun and a good time. The difference is that for male expats that exchange is more globally available, for women not so much.

6) We can disagree on food.

7) See above post about standards, but really if your looking to grow and improve as a professional the whole LCSA region really isnt for you, there are a handful of ISs sure, but otherwise youd be better off in a region where affluence is less controlling or education more competitive.

9) True, domestic help doesnt often understand any English, but once youve managed the instructions the first time (friend, someone at the IS, etc..), there isnt much more use to talk to your domestic help. They come and do their job, pick up the coin, they leave. Leave an extra bonus at holiday time, make sure all the things they need (detergent, etc) is available and there isnt much more to interact with.
Agree about the difficulty of penetrating the social network too deeply, but if your having fun, and distracted why care.

10) I wasnt referring to domestic 'stuff' you would find on Amazon, I was referring more to ""stuff"" in regards to the more backroom, backroom types of market that revolve around various social activities involving recreational . and compensated dating. Brazil is said to be the new Thailand, if you want a bald eagle omelet, theres probably someone who knows someone, whos cousins with someone, whos friends brother recently came into possession of some bald eagle eggs that fell off the back of a truck. Not that Id advocate that. If youve got a particular vice/kink thats itching at your soul, Brazil probably has some way of scratching it.
peachestotulips
Posts: 60
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:24 am

Re: Alcohol

Post by peachestotulips »

In the Netherlands you can find beer and wine in staff lounges at many schools. Of course its not consumed during school hours!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

@peachestotulips

You can find ITs having a drink at lunch just about anywhere.
coin_operated
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:23 pm

Re: Alcohol

Post by coin_operated »

In my limited experience, drinking among international school teachers is associated with places where you make lots of money but there's not much to do. This can make dry countries really bad for people managing a drinking problem, IMO.

The country where teachers had the least destructive drinking habits, in my experience, was Romania. It's not that people didn't drink, it's that there was a lot of social mixing between Romanians and expats, and Romanians tend to have a Latin/Mediterranean attitude toward drinking that is a lot less destructive than cultures that binge drink.
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