Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

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Keiora
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:15 pm

Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

Post by Keiora »

Just a quick question, any help would be greatly appreciated!

It's my understanding that the basic difference between "Bilingual" schools and "International" schools is that the is a much higher percentage of local students at bilingual schools. In my search of these forums, it seems to me that, in general, bilingual schools seem to be viewed as considerably less prestigious.

My question is this. As a newly qualified teacher with no real experience outside of student teaching but who aspires to make IT a lifelong career, is it advantageous to work at a bilingual school for a couple of years to gain experience before trying to move up to a "real" international school?

I know that the BEST option is to gain my experience at home for a couple years first, but teaching jobs in my province are non-existant. The average amount of time a teacher spends on the sub list before getting their own classroom is currently sitting at a really discouraging 10 years. The story isn't too different in the other provinces of Canada, and I figure if I'm going to have to move anyway, might as well make it a big one!

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this, any help/suggestions/input is greatly appreciated.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Thats not true, most ISs are predominately domestic students. You dont really see ISs with predominately International students until you get to the 1st tier/elite tier ISs. In most ISs the international students are ITs children.
A Bilingual IS in IE is an IS that is providing an English immersion academic program (English LOI Facilitated), these are students with a high degree of BICS proficiency, who are building CALP proficiency. This differs from an EAP (English for Academic Purposes) IS where students are really in an ESOL program that uses classical academic subjects as the medium for English lessons (English LOI Moderated). Students who are at GE level in CALP can enroll in ISs that are English LOI Mediated ISs. When students achieve fluency then they can enroll in English LOM (Language of Media or LOI Independent) ISs.

Bilingual ISs are mostly 3rd tier ISs, so yes they are typically less desirable appointments in IE.

No, well maybe. Maybe in that it would depend on the bilingual IS. If you were at a bilingual IS that was western accredited, and had a non-negative reputation then you would be able to potentially move up the tiers sooner/faster.
Professionally no, lower tier ISs are usually poorly resourced, and have minimal if any capacity for mentorship and PD. You wouldnt have a lot of resources to go to for lesson planing, classroom management or organization. You might have an IT who will give you a few minutes of their time, but other words your just going to be imposing on other ITs good will. They make take some pity on you, but they arent likely to sit down with you and review your lesson plans that you wrote, because you were trained to write them for submission to a professor, not something you yourself will or can actually use. You may find yourself in an IS with a lot of NQTs, there might not be anyone with anymore experience in your subject than you. An IS organized in this fashion might not care very much about academic growth as long as parents are happy, and as long as parents are happy and youre on time, your reference will probably be positive, it might not be worth much depending on the reputation of the IS. If the IS is perceived more as an ES and the academic program is just a facade for an English language program, than a recruiter doesnt know if you can teach your subject, which if you stayed and taught domestically they would know you can manage a classroom, effectively deliver your content program, and are a strong employee.
A bilingual IS may exert unreasonable stresses for an NQT, and your failure as leadership perceives it may be reflected in your letter (which may be the entirety of your evaluation), whereas in a DS for an NQT there is some understanding that as an NQT your going to make mistakes and the standards your measured against will be those of other NQTs.

Shovel all that aside. You should absolutely pursue IE, the sooner the better, because sitting around for X number of years isnt going to accomplish anything. Suffering through the grinder of a bilingual IS in some hardship location, with a high probability of becoming a train wreck, can at least be framed from the candidate side of future interviews as a growth experience.
newbies2
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:26 pm

Re: Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

Post by newbies2 »

Hi there!

I think I'm in a similar situation: graduated from Ontario in 2015 and told it would be 9 years of supply/LTO work before landing full time. I wanted to start teaching as soon as possible and gaining experience in order to work in an international school but that wasn't going to happen at home. I started looking overseas half way through my BEd and realized that 2 years experience seemed to be the minimum unless I was wiling to go to some very undesirable locations (personally, maybe you would be open to the middle east?). I ended up applying to bilingual schools where having a BEd was basically a guaranteed job. I was hired within a month of looking and I was being picky, I started teaching full time in Thailand less than a week after finishing my last exam.

My school is a privately owned English Programme school with 95% local students, so not considered international, but I get to teach full time and am loving the entire experience (Just signed on for a second year). I see it as a great transition, a chance to gain tons of experience in a less serious and intimidating environment. Although many jobs at ESL schools is Asia hire backpackers with no experience who are expected to follow pre written lessons for a few hours a week, I was very careful about avoiding these. Most of the teachers at my school have teaching degrees but either prefer this environment, teaching esl or are also using it as a stepping stone. Just like back home I write my own lesson plans based off their provided curriculum, I teach math, english (reading, writing, speaking) and science, I write reports, have parent teacher interviews, work collaboratively with staff, coordinate shows and field trips, manage my own classroom, etc.

I have been told by many people that this experience counts for nothing internationally and when I begin to apply to international schools, but past co-workers from the same school have moved onto international schools so never say never. Regardless of the future I don't regret making the decision to move over here, I've been able to travel to over 5 countries already this year, made tons of great friends, feel way more comfortable in the classroom and have a chance to visit other schools in person to plan for the future.

We are going to start applying to international schools in the fall/winter for the 2017/18 school year so we'll see what will happen.. let me know if you have any questions!
pinkstar
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:30 am

Re: Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

Post by pinkstar »

I'm sorry about the job problem for teachers in Canada. I've heard that from some other teachers and it sounds awful. As you're Canadian, are you eligible for one of those work exchange/working holiday visas for the UK? You could teach in the UK to get a year or two under your belt before applying for a better international school? I mostly met Australian teachers doing this when I was teaching back home in London but I thought Canadians could get a similar visa? There are tons of jobs if you stick to London.

I'm not sure if you'd be entitled to an NQT year as an overseas teacher- but if you were, even better as you'd get extra support and extra non-class time for planning and preparation. Maybe it's not possible... but if it is, it could be a good way to get experience. You have to wonder what kind of support and professional development you'd get as a new teacher in a bilingual school if a lot of the other teachers are also new.

I also know that some areas of Canada have accredited schools overseas. Not sure if yours is one of them. I'm also not sure if they are any different to being bilingual schools for local children but it could be worth looking into to see if the support/curriculum/resources and so on are any better because of being accredited in some way.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

Post by shadowjack »

You can easily land a job in the UK given that many teachers are leaving the profession as the government downgrades. Latest that my friends are talking about is that there is no mandatory pay scale anymore - raises are at the discretion of the heads. This was for academies only, but recently expanded to all, apparently.

That said, you could do your two years, look at it as a working holiday (or heck, stay 5 and apply for citizenship) and then head overseas (as you will be "overseas" anyways and the UK is brilliant for history and things to do.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@newbies2

Bilingual ISs count, the difficulty is for a recruiter to differentiate a bilingual IS from an IS thats EAP. Some recruiters dont want to bother or dont care. Some ISs are more well known and accepted. Some ITs do a better job of communicating their experience than others.

@pinkstar

A Canadian DT wouldnt qualify for a NQT year if they have full registration or were eligible for full registration, and I dont see how they could graduate without eligibility for full registration.

The Canadian ISs abroad are mostly third tier ISs. Typically Asian DSs that want to buy a western diploma and curriculum. Most Canadians on an expat package would choose the regional embassy AS.

@SJ

I wouldnt want to teach in London on the main salary scale in a maintained DS. A DS cant pay less than the main scale, but they have discretion to offer more.
chilagringa
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm

Re: Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

Post by chilagringa »

Don't teach in the UK! Apply to international schools in Latin America. Mexico/Central America is easy enough to get into with no experience if you aren't shooting for the top. There are a lot of second-tier international schools in Mexico that people I know have used as stepping stones into good ISs. Plus the lifestyle is great!
Thames Pirate
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am

Re: Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

Post by Thames Pirate »

I will say there are plenty of 2nd tier schools that are also quite international, but beyond that I agree that going abroad now will help you move up through IE more quickly. The big counterargument, however, is if you can get curriculum experience in a DS. If you can get IB or AP experience, do that. Otherwise, go abroad.
Keiora
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:15 pm

Re: Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

Post by Keiora »

Thanks for all the input! Sorry for the delay in response, but here goes...

UK - Canadians can teach in the UK on a holiday maker visa... unfortunately I'm too old to qualify, so the UK wasn't an option.

I was offered two positions, one with a bilingual school in the ME and one at a Canadian IS. I ended up taking the job at the Canadian IS for a few reasons:
- As a woman, I was unable to sponsor my husband for a visa into Kuwait, he'd have to come on a visitor visa and leave every three months to renew. This made me antsy... After all, regardless of how likely it was, all they have to do is say no once, right?
- Both jobs came out about equal as far as take home salary is concerned, but cost of living in China is much lower I would be able to save more there, and since I've got my student loan to pay off, that was important.
- I know a couple of people who work for the Canadian IS and was able to ask them a billion questions. I feel really comfortable with the well rounded picture I have of the school, the information wasn't all amazing or all terrible... I think I have a pretty good idea of what I'm walking in to.
-the Canadian IS has a more flexible contract (two years on their end, but I'm able to leave after one with no repercussions if I discover that this isn't my jam). As this is not only my first IS contract, but my first teaching position, this was important as well.

I'm really excited! I feel well prepared and now if I can only wade through the tonne of bureaucratic paperwork involved, I'll be set! :)
porter1
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:32 pm

Re: Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

Post by porter1 »

newbies2 wrote:
> Hi there!
>
> I think I'm in a similar situation: graduated from Ontario in 2015 and told
> it would be 9 years of supply/LTO work before landing full time. I wanted
> to start teaching as soon as possible and gaining experience in order to
> work in an international school but that wasn't going to happen at home. I
> started looking overseas half way through my BEd and realized that 2 years
> experience seemed to be the minimum unless I was wiling to go to some very
> undesirable locations (personally, maybe you would be open to the middle
> east?). I ended up applying to bilingual schools where having a BEd was
> basically a guaranteed job. I was hired within a month of looking and I was
> being picky, I started teaching full time in Thailand less than a week
> after finishing my last exam.

> My school is a privately owned English Programme school with 95% local
> students, so not considered international, but I get to teach full time and
> am loving the entire experience (Just signed on for a second year). I see
> it as a great transition, a chance to gain tons of experience in a less
> serious and intimidating environment. Although many jobs at ESL schools is
> Asia hire backpackers with no experience who are expected to follow pre
> written lessons for a few hours a week, I was very careful about avoiding
> these. Most of the teachers at my school have teaching degrees but either
> prefer this environment, teaching esl or are also using it as a stepping
> stone. Just like back home I write my own lesson plans based off their
> provided curriculum, I teach math, english (reading, writing, speaking) and
> science, I write reports, have parent teacher interviews, work
> collaboratively with staff, coordinate shows and field trips, manage my own
> classroom, etc.
>
> I have been told by many people that this experience counts for nothing
> internationally and when I begin to apply to international schools, but
> past co-workers from the same school have moved onto international schools
> so never say never. Regardless of the future I don't regret making the
> decision to move over here, I've been able to travel to over 5 countries
> already this year, made tons of great friends, feel way more comfortable in
> the classroom and have a chance to visit other schools in person to plan
> for the future.
>
> We are going to start applying to international schools in the fall/winter
> for the 2017/18 school year so we'll see what will happen.. let me know if
> you have any questions!

I'm not an expert, but Maple Leaf seemed like a decent operation for a newbie Canadian. I interviewed with them, and was impressed, albeit from a low expectation perspective. For emergency sake, could you give some hints on finding these low-end schools, if need be?
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@porter1

There are several options:

1) Sites such as TIE and Joy jobs.

2) Regional job boards that ascribe to the ESOL market. Daves ESL cafe, Ajarn, FootPrints, Teach Away, Compass, etc. T

3) Many of them are advertised locally, so Google the local/regional English paper or job search database and find the advertisements section. These are usually LH appointments.

4) Take the backpacker pathway, pick a place with a high need that attracts a lot of ETs such as Asia and is a major capital city (largest concentrations of ISs, and go there on a holiday/tourist visa. You will find a number of ISs that are really independent DSs that only advertise locally.

5) Start with the databases like the IBO select a region and then visit and bookmark individual ISs/DSs. You could get lucky.
newbies2
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:26 pm

Re: Bilingual Schools vs. International Schools

Post by newbies2 »

@porter1

To add to Psyguy's response:

I did use many of his option when searching for schools: Tie online, Daves ESl cafe, Teach Away etc. I am also registered on Search Associates but received no interests as I was still completing my BEd.

Other than job boards, I researched cities and areas I was interested in, googled lists of schools in the area, and applied regardless of whether I could find an actual job posting. I ended up being hired for a job that wasn't even advertised yet, or at least not one I came across.

I avoided super touristy areas. As I desired Thailand, I looked into smaller areas outside of Bangkok, Samui and Phuket, where I was less likely to find myself among hoards of backpackers and "tourist teachers".

I looked into the teachers on staff at each school I was interested in. Mainly I was looking for teaching experience and qualifications. If the school and no teachers with a teaching degree I avoided it.

I also contacted teachers who currently work at the school, mostly ones who were also qualified teachers, to get a first hand account of their experiences.

I now also know the difference between and ESL school and and English Programme schools. I'm not sure if the same terms are used around SEA but in Thailand, English programme offers all subjects in English. This means I am actually a homeroom teacher with the same students all day and I teach all subjects in English. This varies greatly from the majority of ESL schools where teachers are responsible for 30 different classes that they see once a week for ESL.

I may have gotten super lucky with where I am, but I don't regret starting in a non-international school or waiting around supply teaching back home. I am not worried about the possibility of moving up to IS and at this point I don't plan on doing it any time soon. I am saving probably more money in my small town than I would at an IS in Bangkok and I've been able to travel and meet great people. And I've gotten to teach wonderful students full time since a week after my BEd so I can't complain about that.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

The rule is there is a job for anyone if you will accept anything. Sometimes that anything isnt so bad (and sometimes its a train wreck).
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