Accuracy of School Packages on Search
Accuracy of School Packages on Search
In your experience, how accurate are salary and benefits packages listed on Search Associates' website'? I had assumed that benefits are in addition to the salary indicated, but a few postings seem to contradict what's made publicly available on the schools' websites. And while salary and benefits are just one part of the equation, they are still a consideration - particularly when it comes to what could be considered semi-hardship posts or locations.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Accuracy of School Packages on Search
Obviously it's going to vary a fair bit between schools but I would say that the salary/benefits are generally pretty accurate or at least in the ballpark. There may be some changes (positive or negative) since schools don't always update that information as often as they should.
I would say that the estimated savings potential entry is going to vary even more in accuracy/honesty and should be treated with a bit more skepticism. The good news is that if the package is known (even roughly) then you can do your own savings calculations with a bit of research and legwork of your own and can rule out schools that do not at least meet your minimum needs and expectations.
I would say that the estimated savings potential entry is going to vary even more in accuracy/honesty and should be treated with a bit more skepticism. The good news is that if the package is known (even roughly) then you can do your own savings calculations with a bit of research and legwork of your own and can rule out schools that do not at least meet your minimum needs and expectations.
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global_nomad
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:12 pm
Re: Accuracy of School Packages on Search
Yes, I find that the "savings potential" is often not accurate since it depends on so many variables. Many schools don't bother to update their information for years (after weakening currency, changes in benefits, cost of living increases, etc. etc.), and remember that these sheets are filled out by an upper level administrator (or their secretary who might ask them, "How much can an average person save?" before picking a number quickly out of their head).
And those upper-level administrators can be completely out of touch both ways- being too optimistic or even pessimistic (obviously they have an interest in making their school as competitive as possible, so more are of the optimistic guesses from my experiences). Take it as a ballpark figure at first from the database. However, it is important (if it matters to you like it does most educators), to ask for contact info. for a few teachers at the school to ask about savings potential (before you sign a contract). Chances are the the average opinion of those "in the trenches" teachers will be much more accurate. Also, join an expat website or 2 for that destination to ask about things like cost of living.
P.S.- the good schools will take a survey from current teachers to update this figure yearly. I worked at two such schools (both solid Tier 1s), however, most won't bother.
And those upper-level administrators can be completely out of touch both ways- being too optimistic or even pessimistic (obviously they have an interest in making their school as competitive as possible, so more are of the optimistic guesses from my experiences). Take it as a ballpark figure at first from the database. However, it is important (if it matters to you like it does most educators), to ask for contact info. for a few teachers at the school to ask about savings potential (before you sign a contract). Chances are the the average opinion of those "in the trenches" teachers will be much more accurate. Also, join an expat website or 2 for that destination to ask about things like cost of living.
P.S.- the good schools will take a survey from current teachers to update this figure yearly. I worked at two such schools (both solid Tier 1s), however, most won't bother.
Re: Accuracy of School Packages on Search
I usually look at expat sites to compare school's info with ground reality. Here is an example that give you the latest information: http://www.xpatulator.com
I also contact the local embassy for additional info. Even the most experienced school heads are tactical when it comes to telling the truth. I found UWCSEA to be quite upfront about their health insurance and local housing costs.
I also contact the local embassy for additional info. Even the most experienced school heads are tactical when it comes to telling the truth. I found UWCSEA to be quite upfront about their health insurance and local housing costs.
Re: Accuracy of School Packages on Search
I've long felt that Search and the other agencies do a pretty poor job of defining the terms in their salary/package sections. They could do a much better job that would help people make plans and decisions. How about "basic monthly cost of living for a family of 4 that buys local in the supermarket, usually cooks at home and owns a sturdy but not flashy car". And "basic monthly cost of living for a single person with an active social and sporting life who eats out several times a week, owns a car and also uses taxis regularly". And "cost of a dental cleaning". It wouldn't be too hard to come up with a reasonable list of items that would really help people.
Forget "savings potential". It's just too specific to each person. I've watched people in the same school, on similar salaries, with same size families. One will put away USD30,000 or more into retirement savings each year, while the other gets a little deeper in debt each year and blames the school for misleading her about the savings potential.
So tell us a little bit more about how far our money goes on the local market, and let us make the conclusions about where'd we fall on "savings potential".
The loosey-goosey terms also make it hard for schools to be forthright, even with the best of intentions (and I'm a person who believes that most people really do have good intentions). What number am I supposed to put down for my school on savings potential, if I know the range is between 30,000 and less than nothing? 30,000 is not typical, it takes an unusual person very committed to frugality, but it is possible, and therefore technically counts as "potential". But it's somewhat misleading since I already know that it's outlier. If I put it down, the person reading it later might not understand it in the same way, as "technically possible but not normal". So what do I put down? It would be much better if the agencies gave better definitions of their terms.
Forget "savings potential". It's just too specific to each person. I've watched people in the same school, on similar salaries, with same size families. One will put away USD30,000 or more into retirement savings each year, while the other gets a little deeper in debt each year and blames the school for misleading her about the savings potential.
So tell us a little bit more about how far our money goes on the local market, and let us make the conclusions about where'd we fall on "savings potential".
The loosey-goosey terms also make it hard for schools to be forthright, even with the best of intentions (and I'm a person who believes that most people really do have good intentions). What number am I supposed to put down for my school on savings potential, if I know the range is between 30,000 and less than nothing? 30,000 is not typical, it takes an unusual person very committed to frugality, but it is possible, and therefore technically counts as "potential". But it's somewhat misleading since I already know that it's outlier. If I put it down, the person reading it later might not understand it in the same way, as "technically possible but not normal". So what do I put down? It would be much better if the agencies gave better definitions of their terms.
Response
Not very accurate:
1) The information is all self reported by ISs and they have an interest in presenting their IS in as positive a light as possible.
2) Much of the information reported is outdated and hasnt been updated in a long time.
2) As far as salary goes, your getting two data points BA+4 and MA+8 which doesnt tell you very much. There are ISs that even if you were exactly one of those two data points the salary quoted would likely be different.
The savings potential as previous contributors have detailed is really just a number plucked out of the air. Even if an IS does a survey, there is nothing requiring them to use an average, they can be looking for the highest reported savings potential. Even then the average has a lot of factors, longer ITs have learned how to live on the economy, and locals can live much more cheaply than an expat can. Even an IT on their second year can save more after factoring for start up costs incurred the first year. The teachers that do get those surveys generally dont put a lot of thought into the number they report, its another piece of work for them to do, so even a good IS that doe a survey is mostly going to contain numbers that arent very meaningful. How do you define savings? Is that what the salary dispersant is? How much an IT has left at the end of the month? Does it account for lifestyle choices, family size, etc.? Theres also the social desirability factor, ITs mostly believe they are underpaid, and anytime leadership asks questions about coin, the tendency is to present a survey result that indicates compensation is low and should go up.
Expatulator is a good resource and so is Numbeo, you can get (sometimes small sample sizes) but realistic ideas of what things cost. Expatulator tends to focus more on expats that are on multinational or government compensation packages so they tend to be higher (a better resource and more representative if your at a tier 1 or better IS). Numbeo tends to be built more on a student/backpacker contributor base (more representative if your at a 3rd tier IS.
I would advise ignoring the savings potential reported and use other sources, at best the salary can do for you is to compare the range of salaries available in a particular region. Salary reports for a profile page are NOT binding.
I find @sid a bit disingenuous, an IS can always include a better explanation of its saving potential in its description. Most ISs chooses instead to use it as filler for the information in their advertising material thats already available on the ISs website such as their accreditation, size, etc. (information thats more relevant to parents). Leadership could use that space to provide more informative descriptions of its compensation package, and the context for its values. Few choose to do this, and even updating the information annually is too much a chore for many leadership.
As @finedude indicates upper tier ISs (tier 1/elite, some tier 2 ISs) rarely have anything to hide and a number of them openly publish their compensation package and salary scale, but as a group those are a very small minority (and they are a small group to begin with). Leadership is rarely disciplined for saving an IS coin by hiring at the lowest possible cost for quality, its in their interest to keep as many factors private as possible, which doesnt create an environment for "the best of intentions" contrary to @sids proclamation.
1) The information is all self reported by ISs and they have an interest in presenting their IS in as positive a light as possible.
2) Much of the information reported is outdated and hasnt been updated in a long time.
2) As far as salary goes, your getting two data points BA+4 and MA+8 which doesnt tell you very much. There are ISs that even if you were exactly one of those two data points the salary quoted would likely be different.
The savings potential as previous contributors have detailed is really just a number plucked out of the air. Even if an IS does a survey, there is nothing requiring them to use an average, they can be looking for the highest reported savings potential. Even then the average has a lot of factors, longer ITs have learned how to live on the economy, and locals can live much more cheaply than an expat can. Even an IT on their second year can save more after factoring for start up costs incurred the first year. The teachers that do get those surveys generally dont put a lot of thought into the number they report, its another piece of work for them to do, so even a good IS that doe a survey is mostly going to contain numbers that arent very meaningful. How do you define savings? Is that what the salary dispersant is? How much an IT has left at the end of the month? Does it account for lifestyle choices, family size, etc.? Theres also the social desirability factor, ITs mostly believe they are underpaid, and anytime leadership asks questions about coin, the tendency is to present a survey result that indicates compensation is low and should go up.
Expatulator is a good resource and so is Numbeo, you can get (sometimes small sample sizes) but realistic ideas of what things cost. Expatulator tends to focus more on expats that are on multinational or government compensation packages so they tend to be higher (a better resource and more representative if your at a tier 1 or better IS). Numbeo tends to be built more on a student/backpacker contributor base (more representative if your at a 3rd tier IS.
I would advise ignoring the savings potential reported and use other sources, at best the salary can do for you is to compare the range of salaries available in a particular region. Salary reports for a profile page are NOT binding.
I find @sid a bit disingenuous, an IS can always include a better explanation of its saving potential in its description. Most ISs chooses instead to use it as filler for the information in their advertising material thats already available on the ISs website such as their accreditation, size, etc. (information thats more relevant to parents). Leadership could use that space to provide more informative descriptions of its compensation package, and the context for its values. Few choose to do this, and even updating the information annually is too much a chore for many leadership.
As @finedude indicates upper tier ISs (tier 1/elite, some tier 2 ISs) rarely have anything to hide and a number of them openly publish their compensation package and salary scale, but as a group those are a very small minority (and they are a small group to begin with). Leadership is rarely disciplined for saving an IS coin by hiring at the lowest possible cost for quality, its in their interest to keep as many factors private as possible, which doesnt create an environment for "the best of intentions" contrary to @sids proclamation.
Re: Accuracy of School Packages on Search
Many thanks for the time you've all taken to respond to my post - it's greatly appreciated!
As mentioned, savings potential has definitely been taken with a fistful of salt and I've not been paying particular attention to that section of schools' profiles. Instead, I've done some of my own research and contacted teachers with their feet currently on the ground in locations I'm considering. It's more the accuracy of salary, I guess. Have an interview on Tuesday with a school whose salary ranges on Search are considerably higher than those listed publicly on their website. The very basic math (adding what the school lists as salary plus the numeric value they attach to benefits) equals what Search has indicated as salary only. And while I don't want to be presumptuous in assuming I'll be offered the job, the honest truth is that the total package would have to be what's listed on Search for me to accept the position. Don't really want to talk money on the first date, but may have to ask for clarification at the end of the interview if it seems an offer will be on the table.
Thank you, once again!
As mentioned, savings potential has definitely been taken with a fistful of salt and I've not been paying particular attention to that section of schools' profiles. Instead, I've done some of my own research and contacted teachers with their feet currently on the ground in locations I'm considering. It's more the accuracy of salary, I guess. Have an interview on Tuesday with a school whose salary ranges on Search are considerably higher than those listed publicly on their website. The very basic math (adding what the school lists as salary plus the numeric value they attach to benefits) equals what Search has indicated as salary only. And while I don't want to be presumptuous in assuming I'll be offered the job, the honest truth is that the total package would have to be what's listed on Search for me to accept the position. Don't really want to talk money on the first date, but may have to ask for clarification at the end of the interview if it seems an offer will be on the table.
Thank you, once again!
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nightheron
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:38 am
Re: Accuracy of School Packages on Search
I have had two jobs where the schools have profiles on Search. Both schools listed considerably higher salaries on Search than what they offered. The first school had a habit of being dishonest, so I don't think it is unintentional. The second school was in a country where the currency had fluctuated and they were willing to negotiate my salary, so I think it was an oversight. I think you need to take the profiles with a grain of salt, since they are self-reported. I agree with doing your own research on cost of living. At my first position the cost of renting an apartment was almost twice as high as what the school had told me to expect. On some level all schools (even the not-for-profits) are businesses and they are trying to obtain the best teachers at the cheapest cost possible.
Reply
@MissMe
That approach would be naive, assuming you are one of the two SA points on the IS profile page, if youve looked at their published salary scale and seen a significant difference between the two, then your very unlikely to get the SA compensation value, so unlikely that if its a deal breaker for you, and you dont need the interview practice, then you may wish to consider writing a polite letter to the recruiter for clarification before the interview, otherwise consider the interview as practice.
Its not well advised to use the Q&A time at the interview by making a compensation question, its advisable to wait until youve entered the negotiation phase, and they have expressed an interest/desire to offer you an appointment to bring up the issue of compensation.
That approach would be naive, assuming you are one of the two SA points on the IS profile page, if youve looked at their published salary scale and seen a significant difference between the two, then your very unlikely to get the SA compensation value, so unlikely that if its a deal breaker for you, and you dont need the interview practice, then you may wish to consider writing a polite letter to the recruiter for clarification before the interview, otherwise consider the interview as practice.
Its not well advised to use the Q&A time at the interview by making a compensation question, its advisable to wait until youve entered the negotiation phase, and they have expressed an interest/desire to offer you an appointment to bring up the issue of compensation.
Re: Accuracy of School Packages on Search
Thank you all for the ongoing feedback. The school sent me out a copy of a contract and details prior to my interview which aligns with what's on Search. Now, the waiting game begins!