Hello forum – We have decided that international schools are a step we want to take and are just getting out feet wet. Looking to start for the 2017-2018 school year. So, of course, this is a new world to us – and I have questions.
My husband comes from a background of teaching special education for years. Was a special ed coordinator in a huge district for 5 years. Next was an elementary school principal for 3 years . The school had a huge ESL group and he loved that. He is now a Special Education Director for the whole district.
He wants to go the administrative route so, question, what services are best for admin entering into the International School realm? It looks like job hunting for this must commence far earlier – is this true?
I am a bit more complicated. I taught with a vocational license for two years in middle and high school – technology. I started having babies and left, with the intention to come back and convert all that to a “real” teaching license. Didn’t happen because I got an amazing job with the Library of Congress developing curriculum (primarily for Social Studies) and creating PD for teachers. I fell in love with libraries and so now I have an MA in Educational Technology from before and an MLS (Masters in Library Science).
We moved to the mountains, here in Colorado, and I took a part time position teaching Social Studies – with a sub license currently.
So, my question – is there any chance that I could teach at an IS school rather than being considered a “dependent.” I have seen some interesting licensure options mentioned. I am just not sure I have the time to spend in a teacher’s classroom this next year, especially with the remote location we are in and my current responsibilities.
We have three kids– they will be 11th, 8th, and 4th grade if we do this in 2017. Oldest is high functioning Autistic so, while he does well and is an amazing kid, words like “rigor” freak us out for his sake. I am not sure that he would survive at some of the schools I have seen. He is on a 504 plan here so – he does well enough to not need special ed services but he does get some accommodations. Do the International Schools have any kids like this? How can you tell if a school may be better for a student with difficulties than others?
Getting ready to jump in
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Getting ready to jump in
Welcome. Others may have other opinions/feedback but here is mine, FWIW.
Search Associates is generally considered reputable and reasonably effective for both teachers and administrators. Recruitment for admin may be a little earlier than for teachers since Search has a job fair for admin. in November 2016, for the 2016-2017 school year.
The good news is that that your background is a bit unconventional actually may work better for you with your husband going for an admin role. Schools can be a bit more accepting/flexible when dealing with the spouse of an admin candidate (if they are really interested in that candidate, of course). Anecdotally, I have know at least 5 different admin's spouses who worked in the school library. Some were the actual librarians, some were assistants but it seems to be fairly common.
Obviously it would be ideal if you could be hired as the actual librarian (Information Specialist, etc) both financially and career-wise. Some schools may be open to this, given your relevant background but many schools (possibly some of the better schools) will still want someone with an appropriate certification as the official teacher for that area/department. To optimize your chances I would definitely continue exploring viable options to get certification to go along with your experience. Other posters may have more helpful advice on this.
As for advice about your oldest son, much has been written about this in the forum. You may want to do a search for some VERY detailed and helpful threads on the subject of learning support/special needs services available at int'l schools over the last couple years. We also have a son with special needs and although it has not been easy to have a successful and rewarding int'l school career, we have had a great life (and our son is much more involved than yours.
In general, a school's website can be fairly enlightening when it comes to their attitudes about students with disabilities. Many/most schools will have some type of learning support services but the majority will still be inclined to only accept students (even paying ones) with only mild disabilities that can be met in the general education classroom, with some inclusion support and/or limited resource room instruction. The easier you can make the case for your son, the easier it will be for you as you look for schools that will be a good fit for your family.
There are some schools around the world that are more accepting of and also more effective in educating students who do not fit the typical int'l school mold but we can no longer name schools on this forum. You might want to join ISR (if you haven't already) as the forum on the other side of the wall is more open and we can be more specific. If you are job hunting then you probably want to be reading reviews anyways.
Good luck and keep asking questions!
Search Associates is generally considered reputable and reasonably effective for both teachers and administrators. Recruitment for admin may be a little earlier than for teachers since Search has a job fair for admin. in November 2016, for the 2016-2017 school year.
The good news is that that your background is a bit unconventional actually may work better for you with your husband going for an admin role. Schools can be a bit more accepting/flexible when dealing with the spouse of an admin candidate (if they are really interested in that candidate, of course). Anecdotally, I have know at least 5 different admin's spouses who worked in the school library. Some were the actual librarians, some were assistants but it seems to be fairly common.
Obviously it would be ideal if you could be hired as the actual librarian (Information Specialist, etc) both financially and career-wise. Some schools may be open to this, given your relevant background but many schools (possibly some of the better schools) will still want someone with an appropriate certification as the official teacher for that area/department. To optimize your chances I would definitely continue exploring viable options to get certification to go along with your experience. Other posters may have more helpful advice on this.
As for advice about your oldest son, much has been written about this in the forum. You may want to do a search for some VERY detailed and helpful threads on the subject of learning support/special needs services available at int'l schools over the last couple years. We also have a son with special needs and although it has not been easy to have a successful and rewarding int'l school career, we have had a great life (and our son is much more involved than yours.
In general, a school's website can be fairly enlightening when it comes to their attitudes about students with disabilities. Many/most schools will have some type of learning support services but the majority will still be inclined to only accept students (even paying ones) with only mild disabilities that can be met in the general education classroom, with some inclusion support and/or limited resource room instruction. The easier you can make the case for your son, the easier it will be for you as you look for schools that will be a good fit for your family.
There are some schools around the world that are more accepting of and also more effective in educating students who do not fit the typical int'l school mold but we can no longer name schools on this forum. You might want to join ISR (if you haven't already) as the forum on the other side of the wall is more open and we can be more specific. If you are job hunting then you probably want to be reading reviews anyways.
Good luck and keep asking questions!
Re: Getting ready to jump in
Thank you - Sorry it took me so long to reply I wound up being away from computer all weekend.
I will look into Search Associates right away. I also starting combing over past posts here - loads of helpful info!
I will look into Search Associates right away. I also starting combing over past posts here - loads of helpful info!
Re: Getting ready to jump in
Hi Huntchaos,
I agree with pretty much everything wrldtrvlr wrote in regards to your situation.
One point to keep in mind is that not every international school is set up to handle special needs cases in the ways that those in the coming from the States would like. It's not that the schools are uncaring or not supportive, it's just they don't have the money or resources to meet those needs. It appears that that this trend is changing--in my last go-round at a job search I saw more special needs services being offered from schools, but it is important to know that schools aren't necessarily mandated to provide the services that parents in the public schools in the States are accustomed. You know your son and what's best for him, and if you think he can handle the changes with possible limited support and accommodations, then certainly consider jobs overseas.
Another point--just because it's called an international school doesn't make it so. Some schools that call themselves international have a very large national population where the national culture dominates; these are particularly true of schools in South America or the Middle East (of course, not all). These schools primarily cater to the national elite, and it can be hard for kids outside the culture to fit in, and more so for those with learning needs. When looking at schools check population statistics if they are available, and also ask questions of specific schools in the paid section of this site. Generally speaking, the more truly international the school the easier it will be for all of your kids to fit in given the diversity and transient nature of the school culture. Hope this helps, and good luck to you!
I agree with pretty much everything wrldtrvlr wrote in regards to your situation.
One point to keep in mind is that not every international school is set up to handle special needs cases in the ways that those in the coming from the States would like. It's not that the schools are uncaring or not supportive, it's just they don't have the money or resources to meet those needs. It appears that that this trend is changing--in my last go-round at a job search I saw more special needs services being offered from schools, but it is important to know that schools aren't necessarily mandated to provide the services that parents in the public schools in the States are accustomed. You know your son and what's best for him, and if you think he can handle the changes with possible limited support and accommodations, then certainly consider jobs overseas.
Another point--just because it's called an international school doesn't make it so. Some schools that call themselves international have a very large national population where the national culture dominates; these are particularly true of schools in South America or the Middle East (of course, not all). These schools primarily cater to the national elite, and it can be hard for kids outside the culture to fit in, and more so for those with learning needs. When looking at schools check population statistics if they are available, and also ask questions of specific schools in the paid section of this site. Generally speaking, the more truly international the school the easier it will be for all of your kids to fit in given the diversity and transient nature of the school culture. Hope this helps, and good luck to you!
Response
You have a more uncommon scenario than most ITs.
Your spouse is competitive for administration at least at third tier, thats not an issue. The SPED coordinator doesnt mean anything in SPED, most ISs dont have what he would recognize as SPED, its mostly mild needs learning support in the general ed classroom with some pull out for resource/ASP. Some of the large upper tier ISs do have large enough departments to support an HOD for LS/SPED/SEN but its nothing like the district level leadership in SPED. In ISs with small departments that do have SPED the counselor is typically the lead in LS/SEN/SPED/LD.
Leadership/admin recruiting happens earlier typically ISs start the year before when recruiting for senior leadership positions.
As far as you, upper tier ISs are going to want a credential, even if it isnt as a librarian. There are a significant number of librarians who have various credentials, but your MLS is a defacto qualification to serve as a librarian. The issue is going to be that your not a credentialed educator.
The best options for a qualification for you would be D.C. through transcript - or South Carolina using prior experience.
It becomes less of an issue if your spouse is appointed in a senior admin role, in which case he can just hire you, because hes the principal and few boards/ownership would make an issue out of a candidate with your qualifications.
Normally dependents in your age groups would be a logistic challenge but they matter less in leadership.
Your SPED child is likely going to be a serious problem, as the ISs your spouse is going to be competitive for are not likely to have SPED departments or SPEd services that would address his needs. Since your spouse would likely be the principal of the primary division IS and your child served in the senior division IS those ITs are going to be complaining a lot with your child in their classrooms. The expectation in IE is that a student is responsible for meeting the rigor of the IS. Having leadership who isnt your admin/manager putting pressure on an IT not in their division to make accommodations and modifications is honestly going to annoy ITs very fast.
The big generally first tier ISs have the most developed SPED/LS/SEN/LD programs but even they dont come close to anything you will find mandated in municipal education. Depending on the area you may just have to enroll your child in the local municipal DS.
Your spouse is competitive for administration at least at third tier, thats not an issue. The SPED coordinator doesnt mean anything in SPED, most ISs dont have what he would recognize as SPED, its mostly mild needs learning support in the general ed classroom with some pull out for resource/ASP. Some of the large upper tier ISs do have large enough departments to support an HOD for LS/SPED/SEN but its nothing like the district level leadership in SPED. In ISs with small departments that do have SPED the counselor is typically the lead in LS/SEN/SPED/LD.
Leadership/admin recruiting happens earlier typically ISs start the year before when recruiting for senior leadership positions.
As far as you, upper tier ISs are going to want a credential, even if it isnt as a librarian. There are a significant number of librarians who have various credentials, but your MLS is a defacto qualification to serve as a librarian. The issue is going to be that your not a credentialed educator.
The best options for a qualification for you would be D.C. through transcript - or South Carolina using prior experience.
It becomes less of an issue if your spouse is appointed in a senior admin role, in which case he can just hire you, because hes the principal and few boards/ownership would make an issue out of a candidate with your qualifications.
Normally dependents in your age groups would be a logistic challenge but they matter less in leadership.
Your SPED child is likely going to be a serious problem, as the ISs your spouse is going to be competitive for are not likely to have SPED departments or SPEd services that would address his needs. Since your spouse would likely be the principal of the primary division IS and your child served in the senior division IS those ITs are going to be complaining a lot with your child in their classrooms. The expectation in IE is that a student is responsible for meeting the rigor of the IS. Having leadership who isnt your admin/manager putting pressure on an IT not in their division to make accommodations and modifications is honestly going to annoy ITs very fast.
The big generally first tier ISs have the most developed SPED/LS/SEN/LD programs but even they dont come close to anything you will find mandated in municipal education. Depending on the area you may just have to enroll your child in the local municipal DS.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Getting ready to jump in
huntchaos wrote:
> Thank you - Sorry it took me so long to reply I wound up being away from
> computer all weekend.
>
> I will look into Search Associates right away. I also starting combing over
> past posts here - loads of helpful info!
----------------------------------
It's fair to say that your oldest son's educational needs may limit your search to some extent. That being said, that would still leave hundreds of potential schools around the world that would give you a good look. If you ever join the paid site, post a similar thread and people may name some schools that would be a good fit (and/or some to avoid). Also, feel free to PM me on the other side and I will pass on the names of some schools where your son would be much less of an issue.
> Thank you - Sorry it took me so long to reply I wound up being away from
> computer all weekend.
>
> I will look into Search Associates right away. I also starting combing over
> past posts here - loads of helpful info!
----------------------------------
It's fair to say that your oldest son's educational needs may limit your search to some extent. That being said, that would still leave hundreds of potential schools around the world that would give you a good look. If you ever join the paid site, post a similar thread and people may name some schools that would be a good fit (and/or some to avoid). Also, feel free to PM me on the other side and I will pass on the names of some schools where your son would be much less of an issue.
Re: Getting ready to jump in
I would agree with what the other posters have said. although students on the spectrum can vary so dramatically in their levels and abilities. I've seen that international school curriculums have a heavy focus on writing and the pace is pretty quick. Lots of homework can be the norm, esp. in high school. Most schools won't make adjustments in the rigor or the content, and it can be challenging to get teachers to see that the rigor of the benchmark is not the same sometimes as the particular assignment that the teacher designed, so getting teachers to modify work in order to meet the required benchmarks or standards can be difficult.
My advice would be not to use the words asperger's, autism, or spectrum at the outset. Those words throw up a lot of red flags, particularly in areas or with people who don't really understand what that means and have a narrow stereotyped view of those issues. I would be very descriptive about his needs and areas where there will be challenges and where he can be independent. I would describe social/emotional needs as well. If he's been on only a 504 plan, then he must be pretty independent. I would describe things in terms of learning difficulties and learning needs and bring up the actual diagnosis later. Eventually they will ask for documentation or paperwork.
My advice would be not to use the words asperger's, autism, or spectrum at the outset. Those words throw up a lot of red flags, particularly in areas or with people who don't really understand what that means and have a narrow stereotyped view of those issues. I would be very descriptive about his needs and areas where there will be challenges and where he can be independent. I would describe social/emotional needs as well. If he's been on only a 504 plan, then he must be pretty independent. I would describe things in terms of learning difficulties and learning needs and bring up the actual diagnosis later. Eventually they will ask for documentation or paperwork.
Discussion
@huntchaos
Your sons SPED issues may very well be a moot point, if your spouse is appointed in a senior or executive leadership role, at which point its his ship and he can directive whatever he wants or needs assuming he can do it within budget. While he wont likely be able to hire staff solely for your son on the ISs coin (could do so yourselves on your own bank), he will certainly be able to issue whatever directives to teachers to make whatever accommodations or modifications your son needs.
If leadership isnt the case I would save any conversation of your childs SPED needs until the point an appointment is offered and you can research the resources and logistics and have the SPED discussion then. At the interviewing or application stages that conversation is likely to be a pass from the recruiter and moving on.
Your sons SPED issues may very well be a moot point, if your spouse is appointed in a senior or executive leadership role, at which point its his ship and he can directive whatever he wants or needs assuming he can do it within budget. While he wont likely be able to hire staff solely for your son on the ISs coin (could do so yourselves on your own bank), he will certainly be able to issue whatever directives to teachers to make whatever accommodations or modifications your son needs.
If leadership isnt the case I would save any conversation of your childs SPED needs until the point an appointment is offered and you can research the resources and logistics and have the SPED discussion then. At the interviewing or application stages that conversation is likely to be a pass from the recruiter and moving on.
Re: Getting ready to jump in
Thank you for all of the great responses. I should have better at clarifying that my son is only on a 504 - which means, he does not qualify for SPED services in the states. He is high functioning and is a great writer. His 504 stipulates things like, longer time to take standardized assessments and the ability to move to quieter/calmer surroundings because that is the sort of thing that throws him off. He struggles collaborating with other students at times and so teachers have changed group projects to individual projects here and there for him.
He does have some issues with math but it tends to be just needing longer on tests - for example, last week he took a very "mathy" chemistry test that he didn't finish and his teacher sent it home with him - he finished at home with no help from us. His needs generally are more social than academic. His teachers always love him though because he follows rules, almost to a fault, and is never a problem in class.
He is at a stage where he does not like anyone to know he is autistic so, we would definitely not mention it at the outset.
I do think if the school was there to serve the local culture - he would really struggle so - I will pay close attention to that.
The quick pace and lots of homework mentioned - that would probably be the biggest hurdle I think for him at the other schools.
I definitely want to walk in with my eyes fully open into any situation so this is all great advice!
He does have some issues with math but it tends to be just needing longer on tests - for example, last week he took a very "mathy" chemistry test that he didn't finish and his teacher sent it home with him - he finished at home with no help from us. His needs generally are more social than academic. His teachers always love him though because he follows rules, almost to a fault, and is never a problem in class.
He is at a stage where he does not like anyone to know he is autistic so, we would definitely not mention it at the outset.
I do think if the school was there to serve the local culture - he would really struggle so - I will pay close attention to that.
The quick pace and lots of homework mentioned - that would probably be the biggest hurdle I think for him at the other schools.
I definitely want to walk in with my eyes fully open into any situation so this is all great advice!
Reply
@huntchaos
Youre really going to want to explore an ISs LS policies, a lot of those accommodations such as longer testing time seem really easy and reasonable that are just not going to be acceptable. An IT that gives an entire period for an exam is going to collect them from everyone, no one gets to take the exam home and finish it.
Students in IE especially locals in Asia take education seriously. They dont turn work in late if there is a grade penalty, they dont give excuses, they just get it done and get it done right. Students will get corrections bck on a paper and they will redo the paper, they will be happy if they get more points but they will redo it just to have it done right, and if they dont all you need to do is mention it to tiger mom. The student will re-research the entire topic, and submit an original, better paper.
Any abnormality in a class like an exam getting sent home, or anything will be reported back to parents who will make issues of anything and everything involving grading/marking.
Youre really going to want to explore an ISs LS policies, a lot of those accommodations such as longer testing time seem really easy and reasonable that are just not going to be acceptable. An IT that gives an entire period for an exam is going to collect them from everyone, no one gets to take the exam home and finish it.
Students in IE especially locals in Asia take education seriously. They dont turn work in late if there is a grade penalty, they dont give excuses, they just get it done and get it done right. Students will get corrections bck on a paper and they will redo the paper, they will be happy if they get more points but they will redo it just to have it done right, and if they dont all you need to do is mention it to tiger mom. The student will re-research the entire topic, and submit an original, better paper.
Any abnormality in a class like an exam getting sent home, or anything will be reported back to parents who will make issues of anything and everything involving grading/marking.
Re: Getting ready to jump in
As always, you should take Dave's advice with a sackful of salt.
"Your sons SPED issues may very well be a moot point, if your spouse is appointed in a senior or executive leadership role, at which point its his ship and he can directive whatever he wants or needs assuming he can do it within budget. While he wont likely be able to hire staff solely for your son on the ISs coin (could do so yourselves on your own bank), he will certainly be able to issue whatever directives to teachers to make whatever accommodations or modifications your son needs."
If you think you could ever do something like the above without it becoming a matter of gossip among teachers and parents - and eventually Board Trustees, you have no understanding of the "smallness" of an international school community.
"Youre really going to want to explore an ISs LS policies, a lot of those accommodations such as longer testing time seem really easy and reasonable that are just not going to be acceptable."
This is also ridiculous. Many of the better international schools (including ones in Asia) have quality programs for students with mild to moderate challenges and are accustomed to making accommodations and modifications - for internal and external assessments. There are several schools who have, or are planning, self-contained provision for children with more serious needs. If your child is in the mild to moderate bracket, then, as long as you're clear and up front with the school, it shouldn't be an issue.
"Your sons SPED issues may very well be a moot point, if your spouse is appointed in a senior or executive leadership role, at which point its his ship and he can directive whatever he wants or needs assuming he can do it within budget. While he wont likely be able to hire staff solely for your son on the ISs coin (could do so yourselves on your own bank), he will certainly be able to issue whatever directives to teachers to make whatever accommodations or modifications your son needs."
If you think you could ever do something like the above without it becoming a matter of gossip among teachers and parents - and eventually Board Trustees, you have no understanding of the "smallness" of an international school community.
"Youre really going to want to explore an ISs LS policies, a lot of those accommodations such as longer testing time seem really easy and reasonable that are just not going to be acceptable."
This is also ridiculous. Many of the better international schools (including ones in Asia) have quality programs for students with mild to moderate challenges and are accustomed to making accommodations and modifications - for internal and external assessments. There are several schools who have, or are planning, self-contained provision for children with more serious needs. If your child is in the mild to moderate bracket, then, as long as you're clear and up front with the school, it shouldn't be an issue.