Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

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josh2588
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:11 am

Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by josh2588 »

Hi everyone,

Been browsing this forum for a while now and am really appreciative of all the guidance and knowledge that is on here. Thanks!

I would like to get some advice regarding my current situation. It’s currently my first year teaching at an IS in China. To be honest, I’m very appreciative of my current job. I got it through a stroke of luck – I was hired a week into the school year due to a sudden increase in student enrollment, and the fact that I am a dual Hong Kong Chinese citizen (the other being Canadian) allowed the school to hire me quickly and skip the paperwork as I don't require a visa. Although I’m not sure how to verify it, I’m guessing my school is 2nd to 3rd tier. Before that, I had been teaching English at language schools for several years.

My long-term career goal is to be work in an educational leadership/administration position, preferably at an IB school. Short-term, I’d like to become a PYP teacher at an IB IS school or at least a reputable IS.

I currently don’t have any postgrad certs nor teacher certification, so I’m trying to work out what my next academic step should be to get me as close as possible to my professional goals. So far the potential options I’ve worked out are:

A) Do the Teach Now program (either the 9-month teacher certification or 12-month M.Ed, any advice on which is more recommended?) so that I can get teacher-certified in DC despite not being an American citizen, which will help as a basic requirement for future IS school applications. Hopefully me being a HRT in an IS right now will get me accepted for their field work requirement.

B) Do the PGCEi from the Uni of Nottingham. I actually have an offer from them to start the course this March but am hesitant as to whether or not I should take it. I heard the course is pretty straightforward but I am a bit turned off by the fact that it doesn’t contain any practical elements and that it doesn’t seem to be a very well-respected qualification with higher-tier IS’s.

C) Apply for an online M.Ed or postgrad course at an IB-affiliated university that contains the IB Certificate in Teaching and Learning (PYP concentration). I’m assuming such a course would not lead to teacher certification, but I think the plus side is that it would help me get my foot in the door as an IB teacher in 2017 when my contract at my current school ends?
So I’m currently at a fork-road and would love to hear from you guys what you think would be the best option for me, or whether there would even be other options. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and I look forward to hearing from you!

So I’m currently at a fork-road and would love to hear from you guys what you think would be the best option for me, or whether there would even be other options. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and I look forward to hearing from you!
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by shadowjack »

Do the Teach Now. However, don't ever expect that any certificate you get will qualify you to teach in Canada without jumping through a lot of hoops, Canadian citizen or no. All that matters is credits in teaching areas. If you don't have the credits and equivalencies, you won't get Canadian certification.

But it will be all good for teaching overseas. Just my two halalas,

shad
josh2588
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:11 am

Re: Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by josh2588 »

Thanks for your advice, Shadowjack.

From reading around on the forums, I gather that the Teach Now certification would be more valuable than the iPGCE. So I'm going to be applying for that course, hoping that they'll accept my school for the 12-week field work requirement.

It would definitely be ideal if the Teach Now teacher certification could be transferred to Canada or Hong Kong, as I am a citizen of both countries and would perhaps end up teaching there one day. I guess I would have to make an inquiry with their respective educational authorities.
overseaslifer
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:55 pm

Re: Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by overseaslifer »

In general, from my experience, having certification in a Western country (UK/Canada/USA/Australia/NZ/) will pretty much remove any technical barriers between you and a job. You will be able to get an employment visa easily and a school will be reassured by your certified status that you are competent to the task of teaching.

If you do not have certification from a Western country, from a school's perspective there are a few elements to consider:

1) Immigration requirements.

Many countries have minimal requirements to award an employment visa for teachers. It might be a higher degree such as a Bachelor or two years' prior teaching experience. If your qualifications will enable you to get an employment visa in that country, that's a great start.

2) Ministry of Education/government requirements.

Usually reflected in the general visa requirements but sometimes there are variations. For example, a public or government-run school versus a private school.

2) The school's discretion.

Many, if not most schools, have discretion in hiring as long as they know they can satisfy immigration requirements for the person in question. If they have faith in you and your abilities and they know they can get you a visa, you will find yourself with a job offer.

In other words, you may be able to get away with not being certified in a Western country.

Personally I am a trained librarian who is not a certified teacher, but who is employed as a teacher and on a teaching contract (and I consider myself to be a teacher). Most schools are happy with my teaching abilities based on interview, references and the PD I have done. However, there have been one or two instances where schools were either 'suspicious' of me for not being Western-certified OR they just could not offer me a teaching contract for reason (1) or (2) above.

At the end of the day it is very difficult to become certified in a western country if you do not live there permanently or have family connections and/or do not have a money tree in the backyard!
tinopener
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:57 am

Re: Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by tinopener »

Hi Josh258,

Last year I was in exactly the same position you are now, so did a lot of research and asking questions of people who had done some of the qualifications.

I emailed someone who had just finished the iPGCE and he confirmed that, whilst it helped him with teaching, it offered little in the way of practical knowledge, and as such he would struggle to teach in a different school or system. As it is not geared to any sort of nationally-recognised curriculum and is purely online, it's less appealing to employers, especially with little experience.

Purely my opinion, but the impression I got was it was essentially a certificate, and not recognition that you are capable of teaching to standards a government would require. That said (or written), they guy I was in correspondence with was lucky to be working as a classroom assistant in a top-tier school in Tokyo before he started the qualification, had a good relationship with the school, and so they made an exception and gave him a teaching position once he'd completed the programme.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by shadowjack »

Oversealifer - Canadian provinces have different rules - and if you don't have a certain amount of courses in an area - no certification for you.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Ive been contemplating your inquiry its somewhat unique. First to review the general advice:

1) If you have access to a classroom either with an ISs cooperation or already have an appointment (with an accredited IS). Teach Now is the better opportunity. The field experience is three months and thats a very difficult sell to an IS as a guest/visiting IT.

2) If you have a contact with an IS that will let you observe and Ive you a classroom for a week, and are a US Citizen than Teach Ready is the second best option.

3) If you dont have classroom access, than the PGCEi is the last best option for actual professional education and certification. Its entirely academic, and while it doesnt offer a license, you can use th PGCEi to apply for a DC credential and then use that to apply for QTS as an OTT. The PGCEi by itself is accepted as a working credential in many lower tier ISs.

Lastly, there is a very, very new experimental option. NJ (New Jersey) very recently changed its certification scheme, in the past you had to use reciprocity if you could. The regulatory authority changed that and now requires outside candidates to meet NJ standards, this had one highly beneficial outcome: You could now qualify for a CE (Certificate of Eligibility), NJs lowest professional teaching credential without a EPP/ITT, by meeting requirements. While there are some minor esoteric requirements (such as health education and GPA) you can qualify for the CE based on a completed degree/major in a NJ matching teaching subject, completing the appropriate PRAXIS exam in the teaching field, and completing a 24hr contact course in meds/peds (about 1.5 credit hours of study). The CE is a lifetime credential with no expiration, and qualifies the holder to provide instructional services.
You could then potentially use that certificate to obtain QTS and then use the QTS to apply for a professional (standard level) certificate ina US regulatory authority, or just keep the QTS. You never need have stepped in a classroom as a DT/IT to obtain the CE.

Returning to your inquiry, first it is entirely feasible and perhaps practical to get credentialed and licensed in HK. You can get a PGDE at the University of Hong Kong or Chinese University of Hong Kong, and then apply for DT registration. Both programs are one year full time, and they are just as acceptable as working credentials for professional educators in DE and IE. Hk produces some of the best educators in the world.

CAN has a very difficult process, CAN certification is largely determined by credit hours within certain bands. At the lowest level you need a degree, and a year of professional educator academics AND a field experience. Teach Now would give you the credential and the field experience but the program gives you 6 hours or about half of one semester of credit, and its not accredited so it wont count. The PGCEi will give you the credit hours in program, and you can use that to get a DC certification but you still wont have the field experience.

The PGCEi is well respected within lower tier ISs. You can then use the PGCEi and apply for a professional DC certification, then use the DC certification for QTS. Sounds like a lot and it is, that process will cost slightly more, so why do it? You dont have an approved and accredited IS to do your 12 week field experience with Teach Now. There are many ITs working in IE with a PGCEi, is an elite tier BS going to snub their nose at a PGCEi, most likely, but thats going to be the same sentiment you woul get from an elite tier As as well (and they can tell by simply looking at your resume you have no traditional degree/major/coursework in professional education from a Uni), however all of that will matter a lot less 5+ years down your IE path when and if you have solid performance in IE.

Your last inquiry regarding the IB route is appropriate but will be very expensive. You will essentially be doing a masters with dual emphasis (one the IB T&L certificate and the second a professional educator certification program) this will take you three years and the institutions that offer the IB T&L certificate are generally private/independent/non-government supported universities, and you will be limited to a very small handful of Universities though there are some limited options in HK that would potentially provide an IB certificate and a PGDE.

HK MOE only recognizes PGDE qualifications from within HK towards full registration.

@SJ

Its not just credits, you need to have an appropriate field experience as well as traditional academic study.
josh2588
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:11 am

Re: Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by josh2588 »

@overseaslifer

Indeed. I know of other teachers who have transitioned from being language academy/EFL teachers into subject/homeroom teachers at accredited international schools, despite not having a teacher's qualification (save for TEFL certs). The director then encouraged them to get certified the alternative route. I personally know of two who ended up getting certified through Teacher Ready. I certainly consider myself lucky to be working as a teacher at an international school - relating to what you said, I'm not sure if I would have qualified for a work visa under Chinese laws as I only have a couple years of ESL teaching experience and a Bachelor's degree. However, as I'm a Chinese (Hong Kong) citizen, I'm basically visa-exempt and that's what probably landed me this job.
Just curious as to your personal situation. Are you planning to stay in teaching? Will you eventually be looking to get certified?

@tinopener

Thanks for the info. I've also heard similar comments about the iPGCE. I've ultimately decided not to go for the iPGCE from Nottingham as since it lacks a teaching practicum, it will not allow me to register as a teacher in Hong Kong. The iPGCE from Sunderland, however, does include such a practicum and I've heard of some teachers using that to apply for "Registered Teacher" status in HK. I'm still looking into that.
So just out of curiosity, what did you end up doing? Did you end up signing up for any type of qualification?

@PsyGuy

Thanks a lot for your detailed post. I've learned a ton from reading your posts. I'm going to look into the NJ certification scheme that you mentioned. I wonder whether or not the fact that I majored in French Language Studies would exempt me from this. When you mention using the CE (or another other USA state certification for that matter) to apply for QTS, does this mean that would essentially become a certified teacher in that particular state AND the UK?

I've definitely thought about the PGDE in Hong Kong, However, I'm currently on contract at my IS in China until 2017, so I don't think it would work out. My current line of thinking with regards to eventually earning "Registered Teacher Status" in HK is that I could do either Teach-Now (if they accept my current IS for their field experience requirements) or the PGCEi from Sunderland that, opposed to the PGCEi from Nottingham, carries an assessed teaching practicum module, which is what the MOE seems to require. I've decided not to pursue the Nottingham PGCEi due to the very fact that it is stated on their website that the HK MOE won't recognize it.

Thanks for the info regarding Canada. It certainly does seem a little strict and complicated. I have a Canadian teaching colleague who will be moving back to BC next year and pursuing his teaching qualification full time. He originally wanted to stay on as a salaried teacher and go the alternative route, but I gathered that to him, the route was too difficult/complex/unclear.

As for the IB cert route, I will be scrapping that option too. You are right in that it is expensive, and I also gather that you need IB experience and teacher certification to even be eligible to register for the IB T&L cert, of which I have neither.
Olives
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:37 pm

Re: Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by Olives »

About the IB Certificate in Teaching and Learning... I am currently doing it in conjunction with my BEd. at a Canadian university. I was in your shoes a year ago, with lots of experience, Masters level background, but wanting the best teaching certification possible. I also wanted the option to come home one day.
Now I am on the prowl for a job, and no one, I repeat no one cares about this IB certificate in teaching and learning. I don't think they know what it is. IB schools want year(s) long experience; even though I am doing my practicum in an IB school, it doesn't count as enough experience to make them feel confident to put me in their classroom. I am in the DP stream; perhaps the PYP would be different... just thought I would share my experience, thus far.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@josh2588

1) HK regulation would not have been a barrier to you being hired at an IS, even if you didnt have a HK citizenship. It would have only been a barrier for entry into a DS. Of course as a citizen you dont need a visa.

2) HK MOE does not accept any PGCE towards full registration, all the PGDE programs accepted towards fully registration in HK, come from graduates of HK PGDE programs. The lack of a practicum within the PGCEi would be a irrelevant issue. Again, the PGCEi is the option best suited toward ITs who cant or dont have access to an appropriate field work site such as an IS.

3) The NJ changes were very, very recent, experimental territory.
The requirements for French (1510) have additional requirements including demonstrating oral proficiency by examination. You would never (unless you taught in NJ) be able to advance to the CEAS, so the second language coursework is irrelevant. There is nothing to exempt you from.

As I wrote above, unless the HK MOE changes their regulation they wont accept any PGCE for full registration. The only approved programs are all from HK Unis.

You do not need IB experience to earn an IB T&L certificate.

4) The rule is that no amount of training equals any amount of experience. The value of the IB T&L certificate is when comparing the utility of that IT to one who only has a workshop or nothing at all. Its an 'in' but its not going to compare to an IT with actual IB classroom experience, especially at DP. You would be far better off having A levels or AP experience in your teaching field than an IB T&L certificate.
tinopener
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:57 am

Re: Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by tinopener »

Josh2588,

In the end I bit the bullet and decided to return home, where I'm now midway through a PGCE before heading back to Japan. It was a very tough decision to make, and I absolutely pursued all other avenues beforehand. The overall impression I got was that, when it comes to qualifications, schools are more comfortable hiring someone who has a qualification they know well if that person is unknown to them.

My recommendation is to think about how your current school and experience would be perceived on your CV, and whether it's strong enough to get you were you want to be. My previous school's standing wasn't great and I was severely restricted in terms of curriculum and transferable teaching skills, so I knew I was severely limiting my future options by staying there and pinning my hopes on a certificate that many schools are unsure of. However, if you're teaching IB or any other in-demand curricula and gaining teaching skills you can take to an interview, there's a definite case for going down the online route. As Psyguy said, you're experience tells any future employer far more about your teaching ability than your credential.

Whatever you decide, good luck with it, and if you'd like to know more about the specific schools I contacted and what they said about the qualification, feel free to inbox me.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@josh2588

The consensus of major contributors has been and remains that the traditional pathway of academic preparation in an approved EPP/ITT program with field experience, followed by direct classroom experience in instructional services offers the greatest utility and marketability to those pursing the education profession.
Vaniece
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:53 pm

Re: Teach Now vs PGCEi vs IB Cert

Post by Vaniece »

Hi Josh2588,
Did you enrol to TEACH-NOW 9 months program and became a Registered Teacher(RT) in Hong Kong?
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