Hi There!
My husband and I are starting to look into this IT thing. I am k-8 certified with 6-8 science my husband is secondary social studies with 5 years all in AP classes. He also has his masters in Admin. We are not too picky on where we end up location wise but we do want to be in a good school. We will be bringing children with us ( one of which is school aged )
From all the research we have done, we keep seeing both ends of the spectrum for EVERYTHING!!! Locations, types of schools, where to look for jobs, likely-hood of us finding jobs ect.
I am hoping for hear from someone who has a similar back story to us. Two teachers, 10+ years of experience, children in tow.
Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!
Advice on where to start!!
-
Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Advice on where to start!!
Well, this is going to sound generic, but here we go!
1) Sign up with an agency like Search. That gives you access to their databases, which will help tremendously as you do your research on which schools you like. You can check accreditations, get a vague idea of packages (keeping in mind that schools may not be entirely accurate when reporting), check the student body (is it truly international or mostly host country?), compare schools across a country or region (for example, what is a "good" package for Thailand or do all schools in a country have a threshold number of host nation students because of some random statute?), etc. It gives you a place to consolidate your documents and references, and it allows schools to see you easily.
2) Cast a wide net. Aim high, but don't be surprised if you don't hear back, particularly from top schools. Many of them will reject you outright if you don't have British/IB curriculum or international experience, but you never know and it can't hurt to put your name out there. If the school meets what you want, go ahead and apply for any vacancies or even ask to be put into their applicant pool. But also aim for more realistic schools, knowing the top schools are likely to be wary.
3) Be persistent, positive, patient, precise, and realistic. Don't be easily discouraged by frequent rejections, and don't take any of it personally (as PsyGuy, our negative nancy but also very realistic poster likes to say, some schools get 1000 applications for each vacancy). It's not personal, and a rejection now doesn't mean a rejection later, when you have experience with IB or living abroad or whatever. There are TONS of schools who will see your profile who will contact you; don't be afraid to turn them down if they are not what you want (but of course be polite and take the time to write them back). Recognize that it may take a year or so two if you are willing to wait for the right job, but don't hold out hope that IS Bangkok is going to suddenly decide it wants you without IB experience. Just keep sending out applications. Make sure to follow directions to the letter--it's just one way schools weed out applicants.
4) Get more experience/certification. You are already in good shape here, but you can do more. Have hubby get IB training and become an IB grader if there is nowhere to get experience locally (the AP is huge, but social studies is a competitive area). If he can get some leadership experience to go with his degree, great! For you, make sure you have experience in as many fields as possible as well. Get PYP and MYP certified, get experience in lacking areas (if you've only ever taught elementary, teach MS science, for example). If you can add a certification in something else (MS math maybe, or some high school?), all the better. Being flexible is a wonderful asset. Heck, become an IB grader yourself if you can!
5) Get more "extras"--marketable extracurriculars look great on a resume. Model UN is a big one, but student government, coaching (especially sports popular on the IS circuit),and drama/music are also good. Clubs are less of a thing because everybody can run a chess club or a crafts circle. Leadership roles such as curriculum coordination or technology implementation are also helpful.
6) If a good school is important, be cautious of for profit models. There are some out there better than others, but be cautious. That doesn't mean all for-profits are fine, either--but the better schools are not for profit.
As a teaching couple with what sounds like a pretty good entry level resume, you'll find something suitable. Good luck!
1) Sign up with an agency like Search. That gives you access to their databases, which will help tremendously as you do your research on which schools you like. You can check accreditations, get a vague idea of packages (keeping in mind that schools may not be entirely accurate when reporting), check the student body (is it truly international or mostly host country?), compare schools across a country or region (for example, what is a "good" package for Thailand or do all schools in a country have a threshold number of host nation students because of some random statute?), etc. It gives you a place to consolidate your documents and references, and it allows schools to see you easily.
2) Cast a wide net. Aim high, but don't be surprised if you don't hear back, particularly from top schools. Many of them will reject you outright if you don't have British/IB curriculum or international experience, but you never know and it can't hurt to put your name out there. If the school meets what you want, go ahead and apply for any vacancies or even ask to be put into their applicant pool. But also aim for more realistic schools, knowing the top schools are likely to be wary.
3) Be persistent, positive, patient, precise, and realistic. Don't be easily discouraged by frequent rejections, and don't take any of it personally (as PsyGuy, our negative nancy but also very realistic poster likes to say, some schools get 1000 applications for each vacancy). It's not personal, and a rejection now doesn't mean a rejection later, when you have experience with IB or living abroad or whatever. There are TONS of schools who will see your profile who will contact you; don't be afraid to turn them down if they are not what you want (but of course be polite and take the time to write them back). Recognize that it may take a year or so two if you are willing to wait for the right job, but don't hold out hope that IS Bangkok is going to suddenly decide it wants you without IB experience. Just keep sending out applications. Make sure to follow directions to the letter--it's just one way schools weed out applicants.
4) Get more experience/certification. You are already in good shape here, but you can do more. Have hubby get IB training and become an IB grader if there is nowhere to get experience locally (the AP is huge, but social studies is a competitive area). If he can get some leadership experience to go with his degree, great! For you, make sure you have experience in as many fields as possible as well. Get PYP and MYP certified, get experience in lacking areas (if you've only ever taught elementary, teach MS science, for example). If you can add a certification in something else (MS math maybe, or some high school?), all the better. Being flexible is a wonderful asset. Heck, become an IB grader yourself if you can!
5) Get more "extras"--marketable extracurriculars look great on a resume. Model UN is a big one, but student government, coaching (especially sports popular on the IS circuit),and drama/music are also good. Clubs are less of a thing because everybody can run a chess club or a crafts circle. Leadership roles such as curriculum coordination or technology implementation are also helpful.
6) If a good school is important, be cautious of for profit models. There are some out there better than others, but be cautious. That doesn't mean all for-profits are fine, either--but the better schools are not for profit.
As a teaching couple with what sounds like a pretty good entry level resume, you'll find something suitable. Good luck!
-
wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Advice on where to start!!
You sound like very solid candidates (no Golden ticket certs like Math or Secondary Science but solid areas and not over-lapping with each other). Two school age spots per teaching couple is pretty standard so schools wouldn't really bat an eye if that would be your situation (less would put you in slightly better standing, more in slightly worse).
Sign up for Search Associates. They are a great starting point and the data base will greatly help you in your search/research. Also the opportunity to attend a job fair can be very helpful in closing the deal with a good to great school (but not always necessary).
After you have narrowed the field a bit, you can then start noting job openings that match your areas and start firing off C.V.s and letters of intro. and see what happens.
Sign up for Search Associates. They are a great starting point and the data base will greatly help you in your search/research. Also the opportunity to attend a job fair can be very helpful in closing the deal with a good to great school (but not always necessary).
After you have narrowed the field a bit, you can then start noting job openings that match your areas and start firing off C.V.s and letters of intro. and see what happens.
Response
My reaction is you sound like tourist teachers who instead of wanting a particular location are looking for pampering (it doesnt really matter where, as long as your at or near the top)?
ISs and recruiters avoid tourist ITs.
How many dependents will you be bringing? Kids are high cost and they dont bring much to an IS. In general you can have 2:1 (2 travelers per IT, including the IT) and be marketable, but you are still more expensive and less competitive than singles or childless teaching couples.
AP is marketable, though IB DIP is the gold ring and more marketable. Marketability within social studies is more difficult to qualify, as its a broad subject and at school leaving level you find much more specialization based on an ISs ethos and strategy. Upper tier ISs that need history are going to want a history IT with proven exam results not just a social studies IT with a background in psychology who could teach history. History is more popular in ASs (since they generally offer both American and World history) and geography is more common in BSs. Social sciences are also popular but often requires an IT to have more diverse teaching areas since its a niche subject).
Administration/Leadership is the most significant game changer, thee is the most flexibility in a leadership appointment, such that kids become much less of an issue.
Lower secondary science has much lower utility, the expectation of an IT is that they can teach all secondary in their field. If you can pair science with maths its is more common to find such paired vacancies in lower secondary.
Primary is a very saturated market as is social studies.
I advise against a premium agency such as SA or ISS at this time, peak recruiting season is almost passed, and without knowing your family situation you could easily be wasting money. In general a premium recruiting agency offers the most utility when you have a broad job search and/or a you definitely want to attend a recruiting event. The more restricted and limited your job search the more likely you will need to spend considerable time doing an exhaustive search and a premium agency will provide you a handful of ISs. If your focus is upper tier/elite ISs a premium agency will be a waste even if your not selective about location. The elite tier ISs are easy to identify (and create your own list), they have very low turnover resulting in a handful of vacancies that are readily published on their own sites, and lastly, most elite tier vacancies are filled in early recruiting. The only scenario at this point that makes a premium agency marketable, is if an IS wants a meet and greet in first night recruiting, requiring attendance at a fair, and even then you could rouge the fair. At that point a premium agency is just convenience.
If you do choose a premium agency based on the limited information you presented, you would be better served perhaps with ISS over SA. Otherwise at this point in recruiting I would start with TIE ($40), TES which is free and easy (no application required) and COIS (very similar process of candidate screening as SA/ISS and is free, they also have a recruiting event during peak recruiting season). I would see what interest you can generate and then use that as a basis for determining if a premium agency is worth the cost.
The cost of application is cheap, almost zero, however you need to get/be very comfortable with rejection, many ISs dont bother with you if they arent interested regardless of the stage of the screening/selection process. You can have what you think is great interview, and then hear nothing. It can become very frustrating.
The easiest expansion right now for the two of you as a couple is either for you to add an all secondary science credential or a lower secondary maths credential (and preferably both). It is also easy for both of you to obtain QTS. More medium term goals would be moving into IB and building experience, especially in PYP. It is also relatively easy to qualify as an IB examiner in DIP. No amount of training, however, equals any amount of experience.
Administration experience is more a long term goal, your looking at three years in senior leadership (minimum AP/VP/DP level) before you can sell that.
ASPs arent really an advantage, everyone does them and unless the IS has a marketable need for your particular skill all ASP experience does is make it easy to choose what ASP you are going to offer, it doesnt add marketability.
The issues and likely major point of frustrations for you will be: 1) Your expectations exceed your marketability. The Iss interested in you arent going to be a majority of elite tier ISs, they will be lower tier ISs that are going to fall short of your current scenario, essentially you will be taking a salary cut to go overseas. 2) Your fields arent in high demand and with kids and their cost your going to be an expensive option. Second place means nothing, there is a good medal and offer and nothing else.
ISs and recruiters avoid tourist ITs.
How many dependents will you be bringing? Kids are high cost and they dont bring much to an IS. In general you can have 2:1 (2 travelers per IT, including the IT) and be marketable, but you are still more expensive and less competitive than singles or childless teaching couples.
AP is marketable, though IB DIP is the gold ring and more marketable. Marketability within social studies is more difficult to qualify, as its a broad subject and at school leaving level you find much more specialization based on an ISs ethos and strategy. Upper tier ISs that need history are going to want a history IT with proven exam results not just a social studies IT with a background in psychology who could teach history. History is more popular in ASs (since they generally offer both American and World history) and geography is more common in BSs. Social sciences are also popular but often requires an IT to have more diverse teaching areas since its a niche subject).
Administration/Leadership is the most significant game changer, thee is the most flexibility in a leadership appointment, such that kids become much less of an issue.
Lower secondary science has much lower utility, the expectation of an IT is that they can teach all secondary in their field. If you can pair science with maths its is more common to find such paired vacancies in lower secondary.
Primary is a very saturated market as is social studies.
I advise against a premium agency such as SA or ISS at this time, peak recruiting season is almost passed, and without knowing your family situation you could easily be wasting money. In general a premium recruiting agency offers the most utility when you have a broad job search and/or a you definitely want to attend a recruiting event. The more restricted and limited your job search the more likely you will need to spend considerable time doing an exhaustive search and a premium agency will provide you a handful of ISs. If your focus is upper tier/elite ISs a premium agency will be a waste even if your not selective about location. The elite tier ISs are easy to identify (and create your own list), they have very low turnover resulting in a handful of vacancies that are readily published on their own sites, and lastly, most elite tier vacancies are filled in early recruiting. The only scenario at this point that makes a premium agency marketable, is if an IS wants a meet and greet in first night recruiting, requiring attendance at a fair, and even then you could rouge the fair. At that point a premium agency is just convenience.
If you do choose a premium agency based on the limited information you presented, you would be better served perhaps with ISS over SA. Otherwise at this point in recruiting I would start with TIE ($40), TES which is free and easy (no application required) and COIS (very similar process of candidate screening as SA/ISS and is free, they also have a recruiting event during peak recruiting season). I would see what interest you can generate and then use that as a basis for determining if a premium agency is worth the cost.
The cost of application is cheap, almost zero, however you need to get/be very comfortable with rejection, many ISs dont bother with you if they arent interested regardless of the stage of the screening/selection process. You can have what you think is great interview, and then hear nothing. It can become very frustrating.
The easiest expansion right now for the two of you as a couple is either for you to add an all secondary science credential or a lower secondary maths credential (and preferably both). It is also easy for both of you to obtain QTS. More medium term goals would be moving into IB and building experience, especially in PYP. It is also relatively easy to qualify as an IB examiner in DIP. No amount of training, however, equals any amount of experience.
Administration experience is more a long term goal, your looking at three years in senior leadership (minimum AP/VP/DP level) before you can sell that.
ASPs arent really an advantage, everyone does them and unless the IS has a marketable need for your particular skill all ASP experience does is make it easy to choose what ASP you are going to offer, it doesnt add marketability.
The issues and likely major point of frustrations for you will be: 1) Your expectations exceed your marketability. The Iss interested in you arent going to be a majority of elite tier ISs, they will be lower tier ISs that are going to fall short of your current scenario, essentially you will be taking a salary cut to go overseas. 2) Your fields arent in high demand and with kids and their cost your going to be an expensive option. Second place means nothing, there is a good medal and offer and nothing else.
-
Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Advice on where to start!!
As I said, PsyGuy likes to paint the bleakest picture of reality. He's not wrong per se, but he does tend to look at the negatives.
Yes, elementary and social studies are saturated markets. Yes, kids are a deterrent comparatively. However, you are just starting out and already so far ahead of most--for better or worse--which allows you to aim higher than the person fresh out of school looking for their first teaching job.
You do not sound like tourist teachers to me, just teachers who have some standards when it comes to what you expect out of a school. Rest assured that you CAN find good jobs. Many of us have done so. Be aware, though, that PsyGuy read "good school" and heard that you were after a fat relocation package, living with a housekeeper, or a swanky flat in central London. If that's what you're after, he's right. However, I heard wanting a not-for-profit, truly international school with reasonable expectations placed on staff (no weekly submission of lessons, professional support, no spoiled-rich-family mentality). If that's what you want, you can find it. This is especially true if you are truly flexible on location. There are good schools in more difficult locations that will hire you with your resume if they have the right openings. Places like West Africa or Bangladesh come to mind. There are also schools that are not considered first tier simply because they are new and/or small. They may be a bit more of a risk because it's harder to determine if they are good or because they may have inevitable growing pains, but they might suit your purposes.
I suggested Search because they have the bigger database than ISS, and with a multi-year membership I don't expect it to be a waste. Yes, peak recruiting has passed for the year (the last major fair is going on now, and it really isn't as big as the two prior fairs), but there is still recruiting going on year round. I find that ISS is geographically limited, too. Just a personal preference. However, the advice for TIE, etc. is not bad at all. Just be aware that the better agencies have higher standards as to what schools they will rep, so you will need to do your own research (well, do that regardless of agency, as there are plenty of less-than-stellar schools with each).
You will see we both said IB experience will help, as will being more broadly certified AND experienced. Yes, ASPs (after school programs) have limited marketability, but they do want to see them, and I gave you a list of those with more marketability. We were actually just asked what types of clubs or activities we COULD offer that the school didn't already have, and it was valuable to talk about coaching Battle of the Books or running chess or gaming clubs. The school was looking to increase its options/offerings as well as its pastoral program, so knowing teachers aren't out the door at the end of the school day is always helpful, if not marketable per se.
No, you likely won't end up at the elite schools (AS London, WAB, etc.), but you never know, and it sounds like you aren't aiming for elite, but for decent. In PG's world, there are the elites, and then there's everyone else. While he SAYS there are tier 1 and 2 schools, he proceeds to talk as if they do not exist in cases like this. Besides, as I said, you never know. We scored an interview with an elite European school at our very first job fair with neither international nor IB/AP experience, and while ultimately we did not get the job (there was only one, and hubby was honestly not quite a good fit in terms of subject area), he was impressed with us all the same and thought that if there had been two jobs, he would have taken a chance on us. This is where PG will come back and say only offers or contracts matter--and he's right. But my point is that we were at our first job fair, not even really expecting an interview and not planning to walk away with jobs BECAUSE we were picky. We gained a lot of experience at that fair and from those interviews, and while we walked away jobless (as expected and almost planned!), we got jobs everyone told us we'd never get as a first international school at the next fair.
So be realistic, and listen to the advice PG offers--he DOES know a thing or two--but remember that he is also a bit of a Debbie Downer, a bit disparaging to all in order to dash hopes in the name of reality, and sometimes a bit of a know-it-all. He knows a lot, to be sure (especially when it comes to things like certifications), and can be a useful poster, but take it with a grain of salt, don't lose heart, and happy hunting!
Yes, elementary and social studies are saturated markets. Yes, kids are a deterrent comparatively. However, you are just starting out and already so far ahead of most--for better or worse--which allows you to aim higher than the person fresh out of school looking for their first teaching job.
You do not sound like tourist teachers to me, just teachers who have some standards when it comes to what you expect out of a school. Rest assured that you CAN find good jobs. Many of us have done so. Be aware, though, that PsyGuy read "good school" and heard that you were after a fat relocation package, living with a housekeeper, or a swanky flat in central London. If that's what you're after, he's right. However, I heard wanting a not-for-profit, truly international school with reasonable expectations placed on staff (no weekly submission of lessons, professional support, no spoiled-rich-family mentality). If that's what you want, you can find it. This is especially true if you are truly flexible on location. There are good schools in more difficult locations that will hire you with your resume if they have the right openings. Places like West Africa or Bangladesh come to mind. There are also schools that are not considered first tier simply because they are new and/or small. They may be a bit more of a risk because it's harder to determine if they are good or because they may have inevitable growing pains, but they might suit your purposes.
I suggested Search because they have the bigger database than ISS, and with a multi-year membership I don't expect it to be a waste. Yes, peak recruiting has passed for the year (the last major fair is going on now, and it really isn't as big as the two prior fairs), but there is still recruiting going on year round. I find that ISS is geographically limited, too. Just a personal preference. However, the advice for TIE, etc. is not bad at all. Just be aware that the better agencies have higher standards as to what schools they will rep, so you will need to do your own research (well, do that regardless of agency, as there are plenty of less-than-stellar schools with each).
You will see we both said IB experience will help, as will being more broadly certified AND experienced. Yes, ASPs (after school programs) have limited marketability, but they do want to see them, and I gave you a list of those with more marketability. We were actually just asked what types of clubs or activities we COULD offer that the school didn't already have, and it was valuable to talk about coaching Battle of the Books or running chess or gaming clubs. The school was looking to increase its options/offerings as well as its pastoral program, so knowing teachers aren't out the door at the end of the school day is always helpful, if not marketable per se.
No, you likely won't end up at the elite schools (AS London, WAB, etc.), but you never know, and it sounds like you aren't aiming for elite, but for decent. In PG's world, there are the elites, and then there's everyone else. While he SAYS there are tier 1 and 2 schools, he proceeds to talk as if they do not exist in cases like this. Besides, as I said, you never know. We scored an interview with an elite European school at our very first job fair with neither international nor IB/AP experience, and while ultimately we did not get the job (there was only one, and hubby was honestly not quite a good fit in terms of subject area), he was impressed with us all the same and thought that if there had been two jobs, he would have taken a chance on us. This is where PG will come back and say only offers or contracts matter--and he's right. But my point is that we were at our first job fair, not even really expecting an interview and not planning to walk away with jobs BECAUSE we were picky. We gained a lot of experience at that fair and from those interviews, and while we walked away jobless (as expected and almost planned!), we got jobs everyone told us we'd never get as a first international school at the next fair.
So be realistic, and listen to the advice PG offers--he DOES know a thing or two--but remember that he is also a bit of a Debbie Downer, a bit disparaging to all in order to dash hopes in the name of reality, and sometimes a bit of a know-it-all. He knows a lot, to be sure (especially when it comes to things like certifications), and can be a useful poster, but take it with a grain of salt, don't lose heart, and happy hunting!
Re: Advice on where to start!!
On the same broad topic of where to start.. I have been coming across the term ROCKSTAR teachers... I can vaguely what they are but can Psyguy or some other experienced people enlighten me on this one. TIA
Re: Advice on where to start!!
Well, there is no such thing as rockstar teachers. There are decent, certified and experienced teachers and then there are mediocre ones (who hardly do any PD and just think their 70s/80s strategies are the gold standard).
If you can innovate and engage students on a daily basis, using tech or hands-on activities and consider every single day at school as a new learning experience, design authentic assessments, provide quick and high quality feedback, the kids will like you and so do their parents. Some teachers when they end up at all these so called 'top-tier' schools feel they have 'arrived' and consider themselves Richard Feynmans of their profession. They hardly collaborate, become resident cynics and create a toxic environment all around.
Be humble, have a desire to learn, collaborate and do decent PD to keep yourself ahead of the pack. You'll do just fine. BTW, don't be swayed by some pseudo pundits on this forum who claim to know it all even when they never set foot on a tier 1 campus, let alone teach.
If you can innovate and engage students on a daily basis, using tech or hands-on activities and consider every single day at school as a new learning experience, design authentic assessments, provide quick and high quality feedback, the kids will like you and so do their parents. Some teachers when they end up at all these so called 'top-tier' schools feel they have 'arrived' and consider themselves Richard Feynmans of their profession. They hardly collaborate, become resident cynics and create a toxic environment all around.
Be humble, have a desire to learn, collaborate and do decent PD to keep yourself ahead of the pack. You'll do just fine. BTW, don't be swayed by some pseudo pundits on this forum who claim to know it all even when they never set foot on a tier 1 campus, let alone teach.
Re: Advice on where to start!!
Thanks for the feedback. As for us...we are not "tourist" teachers. If that were the case we would pack up and teach English somewhere. My husband was approached by a tier 1 school a year ago when this wasn't even on our radar but we haven't been able to stop thinking about the possibilities since.
When I said we want a good school, I was thinking more along the lines of academics, hard working staff, and admin. We are bringing two children with us and want them to receive a great education. We are not expecting to be "pampered" in any way and we fully understand we will be making far less if we teach overseas. We are in this for experiences we will gain as teachers and for our family.
My science cert will work 6-12 and I also have my minor in Maths, just never needed to add the endorsement. Will I need it added to teach math overseas?
My husbands has been department head for 6 years and has filled in as Asst Principal for maternity leave. He has other minor things here. Will these things be favorable in looking at admin positions?
We haven't signed up with a premium agency bc we knew we are late in the game and were unable to attend any fairs bc of coaching commitments. We have signed up with TIE and are enjoying looking at different schools and positions to see what is out there.
When I said we want a good school, I was thinking more along the lines of academics, hard working staff, and admin. We are bringing two children with us and want them to receive a great education. We are not expecting to be "pampered" in any way and we fully understand we will be making far less if we teach overseas. We are in this for experiences we will gain as teachers and for our family.
My science cert will work 6-12 and I also have my minor in Maths, just never needed to add the endorsement. Will I need it added to teach math overseas?
My husbands has been department head for 6 years and has filled in as Asst Principal for maternity leave. He has other minor things here. Will these things be favorable in looking at admin positions?
We haven't signed up with a premium agency bc we knew we are late in the game and were unable to attend any fairs bc of coaching commitments. We have signed up with TIE and are enjoying looking at different schools and positions to see what is out there.
-
shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Advice on where to start!!
LOL Afouch. Don't ever assume you will be making "far less" overseas than you would at home. At the same time, you won't have the job security that you do at home either, and you might find yourself making a move not because you dislike the country or school, but because the division your child is moving up into is the one division at the school that is poorly managed or aligned and you want your child to be set for the next level after that.
-
Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Advice on where to start!!
@magician
There is no such thing as a rockstar teacher. It's PsyGuy's word for a teacher whom top ISs want. The problem is that he uses the term in an elitist way when the reality is that the term is very loose at best.
He is right in a few things--schools often need to find ways to whittle down applicant pools, and a certain set of minimums is an easy way to do that. So rockstar teacher often means IS experience (often gained in less desirable areas), curriculum experience (often IB), part of a couple with no dependents when both teachers could fill a vacancy, advanced degrees, multiple certifications, etc. His points system, while a guide only, is actually reasonably accurate in accounting for desirability. That said, he rarely allows for anyone to actually be a rockstar, even when they score into the masterclass teacher category on his points system. ;)
Unfortunately, the problem arises when top schools choose people who look good on paper and pass over awesome teachers who might not have taught IB, for example. The reality is that good teaching is good teaching, and a good teacher can be awesome in a top school even without IB experience. Smart schools recognize this, and when an elite school might pass on someone simply because of a check box (understandably, given the number of applicants and the need to get the candidate pool down), a first or second tier school (i.e. a good school) might snap them up. A good teacher will have the references, etc. that will help fill the holes in the checklist--however, schools will need to look at those references or whatever.
PG will tell you that rockstar teachers are pre-recruited at fairs or even hired without the fairs. Well, this is true--but lots of schools hire before the fairs, counting on this reputation and a bit of flattery to fill their positions with their first choices. They use the lure of escaping the pressure and desperation of a fair to attract a teacher. Meanwhile, top schools DO hire at fairs. Therefore one must be careful not to assume correlation = causation.
If you are a good teacher, you are a good teacher in IB or NC. Those are just the framework around which you build your good teaching.
@Afouch
You will find something good, I'm sure. Yes, it is absolutely helpful to get a math cert as schools will be hesitant or sometimes unable to hire you for something for which you are not certified (remember, visas and the like may require it). So just saying you can teach it is not enough.
As for admin, it is not uncommon to promote from within, so without full admin experience, it's unlikely he'll be a contender for those jobs. But then again, he might very well be, and it can't hurt to apply, right? He could also apply for lesser leadership roles--curriculum coordination, etc.--if they suit. It really depends on the school, the vacancy, the strength of your application beyond what you've shared here, and a bit of luck in terms of who is looking at the apps, etc.
You sound like us a few years ago--willing to be picky (as I said, we went to a fair knowing the chances of walking away without a job were good and that we were just testing the waters--and indeed that is what happened). There are TONS of good schools (yes, even more garbage, but I doubt you'll end up in the garbage schools simply based on the strength of your application and the way you present yourselves here). You'll find something great. I look forward to hearing about your continued search!
There is no such thing as a rockstar teacher. It's PsyGuy's word for a teacher whom top ISs want. The problem is that he uses the term in an elitist way when the reality is that the term is very loose at best.
He is right in a few things--schools often need to find ways to whittle down applicant pools, and a certain set of minimums is an easy way to do that. So rockstar teacher often means IS experience (often gained in less desirable areas), curriculum experience (often IB), part of a couple with no dependents when both teachers could fill a vacancy, advanced degrees, multiple certifications, etc. His points system, while a guide only, is actually reasonably accurate in accounting for desirability. That said, he rarely allows for anyone to actually be a rockstar, even when they score into the masterclass teacher category on his points system. ;)
Unfortunately, the problem arises when top schools choose people who look good on paper and pass over awesome teachers who might not have taught IB, for example. The reality is that good teaching is good teaching, and a good teacher can be awesome in a top school even without IB experience. Smart schools recognize this, and when an elite school might pass on someone simply because of a check box (understandably, given the number of applicants and the need to get the candidate pool down), a first or second tier school (i.e. a good school) might snap them up. A good teacher will have the references, etc. that will help fill the holes in the checklist--however, schools will need to look at those references or whatever.
PG will tell you that rockstar teachers are pre-recruited at fairs or even hired without the fairs. Well, this is true--but lots of schools hire before the fairs, counting on this reputation and a bit of flattery to fill their positions with their first choices. They use the lure of escaping the pressure and desperation of a fair to attract a teacher. Meanwhile, top schools DO hire at fairs. Therefore one must be careful not to assume correlation = causation.
If you are a good teacher, you are a good teacher in IB or NC. Those are just the framework around which you build your good teaching.
@Afouch
You will find something good, I'm sure. Yes, it is absolutely helpful to get a math cert as schools will be hesitant or sometimes unable to hire you for something for which you are not certified (remember, visas and the like may require it). So just saying you can teach it is not enough.
As for admin, it is not uncommon to promote from within, so without full admin experience, it's unlikely he'll be a contender for those jobs. But then again, he might very well be, and it can't hurt to apply, right? He could also apply for lesser leadership roles--curriculum coordination, etc.--if they suit. It really depends on the school, the vacancy, the strength of your application beyond what you've shared here, and a bit of luck in terms of who is looking at the apps, etc.
You sound like us a few years ago--willing to be picky (as I said, we went to a fair knowing the chances of walking away without a job were good and that we were just testing the waters--and indeed that is what happened). There are TONS of good schools (yes, even more garbage, but I doubt you'll end up in the garbage schools simply based on the strength of your application and the way you present yourselves here). You'll find something great. I look forward to hearing about your continued search!
Reply
@Afouch
There is no marketability for IT candidates just out of Uni, the bar to entry is 2 years post certification. That doesnt make a candidate "so far ahead", the issue is what is your comparable marketability is. If your looking for "good" ISs with a "great" educational opportunities your going to be in the same room with a lot of noob candidates with comparable resumes and many of those are not going to the family logistical factor. Kids are cost, and negatives arent ignorable just because there are positives.
So your not tourist teachers, but you have some tourist teacher tendencies. You want "great" educational opportunities for your children, instill some global culture and sophistication in them.
The issue with those hardship locations such as Africa and Bangladesh is they are hardships, and your not likely to find better educational opportunities. Many elite tier ISs that arent in western regions are equivalent in quality to a affluent DS in the west, that may be better than what you are experiencing now, but its not the ultra educational experience you will find at global preparatory academies such as Eaton, or Manhattan Prep, etc.
SAs database is larger but its increased size is from a larger portion of lower tier ISs. ISS also provides a multi year membership (2 years, as opposed to SAs 3 years). SA reps some of the worst ISs (and there are some train wreck with ISS as well). Research on quality isnt very relevant, either you need their services or you dont, research is only helpful if it effects decision making between options. There isnt much of an option you either join or you dont.
ASPs are an inverse negative. They dont add marketability, but not being able to offer any would be a negative. Its not a utility issue however because any IT can do something. Anyone can offer chess club, or knitting, or some type of hobby. ASPs have to be truly marketable to an IS such that they can sell it to parents. An accomplished equestrian rider, to an IS with an equestrian program, that is losing their current IT. Thats marketable. Having something an IS doesnt have or that they do have has no effect on marketability. If they dont have it you can do, it and if they do have it you will do something else.
There are all three tiers of ISs, the focus of our leadership tends to be on upper tier ISs, as that is the interest of our readership. There isnt a huge movement in candidate ITs that are focused on third tier ISs. From a demonstration perspective 1st and elite tier ISs provide a frame of reference that is commonly understood by candidates and exhibits general consensus by IE professionals.
Only offers and contracts matter, and everything else is just warm fuzzys and cold pricklies.
@magician
Nutter talk, rockstar/superstar ITs absolutely exist. You cant go to BKK or an IB workshop (especially at the regional HQ) and not see rooms filled of super/rock star ITs.
SuperStar (RockStar) ITs are Master Class ITs (see PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System Below) that have it all. 10+ years experience, a significant amount in IE, cross curriculum experience and training, advance degree, multiple complimentary certifications, successful assessment results, and current or previous upper tier IE experience. Saying otherwise is just sour grapes for those who arent a member of the group.
Every IT and IT candidate believes they are great, Ive yet to find one that claims to be mediocre or incompetent. Superstar ITs dont need to collaborate because they know everything, collaboration is a process for those who cant think on their own, and need 'help'.
There is a significant amount of ego involved however.
Good teaching (best practices) is good teaching and everyone has it. You dont get in the room if you dont. You arent going to find an IT or candidate that claims to be average, mediocre, or poor. Being "great" is just an expectation thats assumed.
Smart ISs recognize that experience in their curriculum is valuable, and you would to. You can have two great doctors but if your having your appendix taken out do you want the one whos never done it before or the one whos done hundreds for years. Youd pick the experienced physician and leadership/recruiters select the experienced IT. If only there were upper tier ISs for every great IT, but there isnt. The idea that a selective IS will ignore experienced ITs to give a candidate IT a chance is just naive.
Yes, superstar ITs are typically recruited in advance of fairs and they participate in first night recruiting. Yes some lower tier ISs mimic the same process. That does not equate to the same process. The former is prioritizing recruitment by ISs of exceptional caliber, the latter is just a naive IT about to be taken advantage of.
No, being a "good" DT in a NC, does not make you a good IT in IB. PYP ITs would not agree with that claim. Being productive in a DS thats municipally regulated is not always a seamless or productive transition to IE.
@Afouch
Two children wont be a deal breaker but it does have reduced marketability. Its more cost for an IS, and leadership rarely is penalized for saving money.
Your 4-8 science will not "work" for 6-12, leadership isnt going to give an upper secondary physics/chemistry/biology class at school leaving level to an IT candidate without experience in that subject or insufficient certification, at least not ISs that will give you a constructive work and education experience.
It would be strongly advised to add a maths 6-12 credential.
Your spouses experience is right at the margins of leadership. This will be difficult for you to decide, he likely is marketable in a lower tier IS in a hardship region, but leadership is a better appointment in terms of compensation, and it will lead to stronger and better leadership opportunities. The other option would be focusing on floater (top 3rd tier) ISs and potentially 2nd tier ISs.
Concur with @SJ that one division of an IS can be great and another can be a train wreck. The average IT salary is about USD$29K/net.
There is no marketability for IT candidates just out of Uni, the bar to entry is 2 years post certification. That doesnt make a candidate "so far ahead", the issue is what is your comparable marketability is. If your looking for "good" ISs with a "great" educational opportunities your going to be in the same room with a lot of noob candidates with comparable resumes and many of those are not going to the family logistical factor. Kids are cost, and negatives arent ignorable just because there are positives.
So your not tourist teachers, but you have some tourist teacher tendencies. You want "great" educational opportunities for your children, instill some global culture and sophistication in them.
The issue with those hardship locations such as Africa and Bangladesh is they are hardships, and your not likely to find better educational opportunities. Many elite tier ISs that arent in western regions are equivalent in quality to a affluent DS in the west, that may be better than what you are experiencing now, but its not the ultra educational experience you will find at global preparatory academies such as Eaton, or Manhattan Prep, etc.
SAs database is larger but its increased size is from a larger portion of lower tier ISs. ISS also provides a multi year membership (2 years, as opposed to SAs 3 years). SA reps some of the worst ISs (and there are some train wreck with ISS as well). Research on quality isnt very relevant, either you need their services or you dont, research is only helpful if it effects decision making between options. There isnt much of an option you either join or you dont.
ASPs are an inverse negative. They dont add marketability, but not being able to offer any would be a negative. Its not a utility issue however because any IT can do something. Anyone can offer chess club, or knitting, or some type of hobby. ASPs have to be truly marketable to an IS such that they can sell it to parents. An accomplished equestrian rider, to an IS with an equestrian program, that is losing their current IT. Thats marketable. Having something an IS doesnt have or that they do have has no effect on marketability. If they dont have it you can do, it and if they do have it you will do something else.
There are all three tiers of ISs, the focus of our leadership tends to be on upper tier ISs, as that is the interest of our readership. There isnt a huge movement in candidate ITs that are focused on third tier ISs. From a demonstration perspective 1st and elite tier ISs provide a frame of reference that is commonly understood by candidates and exhibits general consensus by IE professionals.
Only offers and contracts matter, and everything else is just warm fuzzys and cold pricklies.
@magician
Nutter talk, rockstar/superstar ITs absolutely exist. You cant go to BKK or an IB workshop (especially at the regional HQ) and not see rooms filled of super/rock star ITs.
SuperStar (RockStar) ITs are Master Class ITs (see PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System Below) that have it all. 10+ years experience, a significant amount in IE, cross curriculum experience and training, advance degree, multiple complimentary certifications, successful assessment results, and current or previous upper tier IE experience. Saying otherwise is just sour grapes for those who arent a member of the group.
Every IT and IT candidate believes they are great, Ive yet to find one that claims to be mediocre or incompetent. Superstar ITs dont need to collaborate because they know everything, collaboration is a process for those who cant think on their own, and need 'help'.
There is a significant amount of ego involved however.
Good teaching (best practices) is good teaching and everyone has it. You dont get in the room if you dont. You arent going to find an IT or candidate that claims to be average, mediocre, or poor. Being "great" is just an expectation thats assumed.
Smart ISs recognize that experience in their curriculum is valuable, and you would to. You can have two great doctors but if your having your appendix taken out do you want the one whos never done it before or the one whos done hundreds for years. Youd pick the experienced physician and leadership/recruiters select the experienced IT. If only there were upper tier ISs for every great IT, but there isnt. The idea that a selective IS will ignore experienced ITs to give a candidate IT a chance is just naive.
Yes, superstar ITs are typically recruited in advance of fairs and they participate in first night recruiting. Yes some lower tier ISs mimic the same process. That does not equate to the same process. The former is prioritizing recruitment by ISs of exceptional caliber, the latter is just a naive IT about to be taken advantage of.
No, being a "good" DT in a NC, does not make you a good IT in IB. PYP ITs would not agree with that claim. Being productive in a DS thats municipally regulated is not always a seamless or productive transition to IE.
@Afouch
Two children wont be a deal breaker but it does have reduced marketability. Its more cost for an IS, and leadership rarely is penalized for saving money.
Your 4-8 science will not "work" for 6-12, leadership isnt going to give an upper secondary physics/chemistry/biology class at school leaving level to an IT candidate without experience in that subject or insufficient certification, at least not ISs that will give you a constructive work and education experience.
It would be strongly advised to add a maths 6-12 credential.
Your spouses experience is right at the margins of leadership. This will be difficult for you to decide, he likely is marketable in a lower tier IS in a hardship region, but leadership is a better appointment in terms of compensation, and it will lead to stronger and better leadership opportunities. The other option would be focusing on floater (top 3rd tier) ISs and potentially 2nd tier ISs.
Concur with @SJ that one division of an IS can be great and another can be a train wreck. The average IT salary is about USD$29K/net.
-
Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Advice on where to start!!
And here's where I have issues with PsyGuy. His advice is often good and grounded in truth, even if it is sometimes harsh. There are areas in which he is knowledgeable. However, his "you aren't good enough" mantra, no matter who you are, isn't designed to actually push people to be better, but to belittle.
Yes, 2 kids are a cost--but there are frankly hundreds of teachers with 2 kids at the top tiers of IT. It might be a deciding factor if there are two candidates of equal caliber, but it is by no means as significant a downer as PsyGuy indicates IF you and your partner are strong candidates otherwise.
PsyGuy reads wanting a great education for your kids as tourist teacher (sidewalk cafe in Paris style), while you say you want a school that will challenge your kids and help them grow. Well, Bangladesh is a great example--the school is really good, but the country is not, so they have a hard time keeping teachers. However, your kids can get fantastic opportunities at a school like that. No, they may not have the reputation of Eton, but then again, most schools don't--only Eton does. Regardless, education is what you make of it, so if opportunities exist, does it matter where they are? No, other than name recognition/elitism. Those elite unis will take someone who took ownership of good or even limited opportunities over someone who coasted at top schools. I went to one of those unis, so I am speaking from experience. Even the best ISs are still just schools at the end of the day, and elite universities won't value one over the other.
SA does have the larger database, but if your goal is to cast your net wide, the bigger database is an advantage. Furthermore, there is a geographic component. ISS doesn't have a heavy European presence. Since you will have to do your homework regardless, why not cast the wider net? The research on quality of individual schools is your own responsibility, and it requires networking, reading between the lines, and a whole lot of internet searching. Search allows for casting the wider net. Thus my recommendation. However, non-premium agencies would work for what you want, too.
ASPs are, as PG says (and I said), only useful if the school needs them--but they appear on his scoring scale, so make your own decisions there. I have already said which ones are most likely to be valuable to a school. There is also the possibility of bringing your own new programs to a school, particularly if you have a special talent. That could be a point in your favor, but don't count on it unless it really is that outstanding.
PG also says rockstar ITs exist, but he refuses to acknowledge who is one. If you have the points on his scale? Nope. If you get pre-recruited at a major fair? Nope. Only if you are not a regular poster on here, apparently, as nobody on here seems to qualify in his book.
Meanwhile he says collaboration is for lesser ITs, and I can say with certainty that this attitude shows his true elitism. Collaboration isn't about needing help; it's about creating a more integrated curriculum that is BETTER FOR KIDS. It is about recognizing that others may have ideas that are BETTER FOR KIDS even as you share your ideas with your colleagues because they might be BETTER FOR KIDS. It is a mindset about doing what is BEST FOR KIDS, egos aside.
You find mediocre teachers in the most prestigious of schools just as you find top notch teachers in the lower tiers simply because they don't measure up on paper yet. Yes, curriculum experience is a deciding factor, and of course the teacher with IB experience is better than the one without ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL and of course it is used as a weeding method. Nobody denies those things. However, schools can and do interview people without experience because something else in the application or in the individual caught their attention, and sometimes they recognize that the lack of experience is simply a "yet" that can be remedied within a year. So IF a good teacher can get a foot in the door (be it in the elevator at a fair, through a mutual contact, or some other way), he or she can get by without the experience simply because good teaching cannot be captured on a paper application.
I would say that a good teacher in any curriculum can be good in most any system simply because good teaching is about identifying and responding to the needs of the kids. No, it isn't necessarily seamless, but good teachers are, by nature, adaptable; as such they will make that transition easily enough, and they will often do it better than a mediocre teacher with experience. The best administrators recognize this. Those focused on elitist theories like those you are espousing do not, and in the long run the school suffers.
We do agree on the math credential and on expanding your experience so that you can be marketable more broadly. It is common for schools to hire one and "fit in" the other teaching partner, so making it easy to plug you in is helpful. They may not plug you in at IB DP Physics, but they may very well give you some MYP math and science and move the previous person over to the DP Physics job.
Again, cast a wide net, including teaching AND admin jobs for your partner at a range of schools. My bet is you will get a good job.
Yes, 2 kids are a cost--but there are frankly hundreds of teachers with 2 kids at the top tiers of IT. It might be a deciding factor if there are two candidates of equal caliber, but it is by no means as significant a downer as PsyGuy indicates IF you and your partner are strong candidates otherwise.
PsyGuy reads wanting a great education for your kids as tourist teacher (sidewalk cafe in Paris style), while you say you want a school that will challenge your kids and help them grow. Well, Bangladesh is a great example--the school is really good, but the country is not, so they have a hard time keeping teachers. However, your kids can get fantastic opportunities at a school like that. No, they may not have the reputation of Eton, but then again, most schools don't--only Eton does. Regardless, education is what you make of it, so if opportunities exist, does it matter where they are? No, other than name recognition/elitism. Those elite unis will take someone who took ownership of good or even limited opportunities over someone who coasted at top schools. I went to one of those unis, so I am speaking from experience. Even the best ISs are still just schools at the end of the day, and elite universities won't value one over the other.
SA does have the larger database, but if your goal is to cast your net wide, the bigger database is an advantage. Furthermore, there is a geographic component. ISS doesn't have a heavy European presence. Since you will have to do your homework regardless, why not cast the wider net? The research on quality of individual schools is your own responsibility, and it requires networking, reading between the lines, and a whole lot of internet searching. Search allows for casting the wider net. Thus my recommendation. However, non-premium agencies would work for what you want, too.
ASPs are, as PG says (and I said), only useful if the school needs them--but they appear on his scoring scale, so make your own decisions there. I have already said which ones are most likely to be valuable to a school. There is also the possibility of bringing your own new programs to a school, particularly if you have a special talent. That could be a point in your favor, but don't count on it unless it really is that outstanding.
PG also says rockstar ITs exist, but he refuses to acknowledge who is one. If you have the points on his scale? Nope. If you get pre-recruited at a major fair? Nope. Only if you are not a regular poster on here, apparently, as nobody on here seems to qualify in his book.
Meanwhile he says collaboration is for lesser ITs, and I can say with certainty that this attitude shows his true elitism. Collaboration isn't about needing help; it's about creating a more integrated curriculum that is BETTER FOR KIDS. It is about recognizing that others may have ideas that are BETTER FOR KIDS even as you share your ideas with your colleagues because they might be BETTER FOR KIDS. It is a mindset about doing what is BEST FOR KIDS, egos aside.
You find mediocre teachers in the most prestigious of schools just as you find top notch teachers in the lower tiers simply because they don't measure up on paper yet. Yes, curriculum experience is a deciding factor, and of course the teacher with IB experience is better than the one without ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL and of course it is used as a weeding method. Nobody denies those things. However, schools can and do interview people without experience because something else in the application or in the individual caught their attention, and sometimes they recognize that the lack of experience is simply a "yet" that can be remedied within a year. So IF a good teacher can get a foot in the door (be it in the elevator at a fair, through a mutual contact, or some other way), he or she can get by without the experience simply because good teaching cannot be captured on a paper application.
I would say that a good teacher in any curriculum can be good in most any system simply because good teaching is about identifying and responding to the needs of the kids. No, it isn't necessarily seamless, but good teachers are, by nature, adaptable; as such they will make that transition easily enough, and they will often do it better than a mediocre teacher with experience. The best administrators recognize this. Those focused on elitist theories like those you are espousing do not, and in the long run the school suffers.
We do agree on the math credential and on expanding your experience so that you can be marketable more broadly. It is common for schools to hire one and "fit in" the other teaching partner, so making it easy to plug you in is helpful. They may not plug you in at IB DP Physics, but they may very well give you some MYP math and science and move the previous person over to the DP Physics job.
Again, cast a wide net, including teaching AND admin jobs for your partner at a range of schools. My bet is you will get a good job.
Last edited by Thames Pirate on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Advice on where to start!!
While the average IT salary might be 29K, I have to laugh because as is cited, there are a ton of lower tier schools out there. So what that means as you take those schools away is that the average rises. In my last few postings I have made 60K plus and at this stage in my life am not yet set enough to take a cut. The good thing is that there are a lot of schools out there that DO pay coin like that - you just have to find them. At the same time, though, I don't go to schools only because of the coin. I won't say it isn't a factor, though!
Reply
@SJ
I concur, a very large third tier skews the compensation average. $60K isnt overly difficult to find in upper tier ISs and six figure coin isnt unattainable.
@Thames Pirate
AND IE isnt a Disney movie, I have no affective investment in my contributions only data matters. If a letter writer wants rainbows and pixie dust the forum has a unicorn to bring sunshine.
Yes, there are ITs with non teaching spouses and 2+ kids, they started those families after getting to their dream destination, or they had them once they got into a tier 1 IS, or they were fortunate.
There is no might about it, the vast majority of IT candidates are indistinct from one another, and logistical factors such as family size become glaringly amplified. You get down to the short, short interview list and you have 5 IT candidates that are nearly identical, and 2 kids is an extra $20K in cost, thats not a 'meh', or insignificant factor.
Bangladesh is a great example of IS marketing and advertising, great education in a really difficult hardship location. I have never been to a Uni campus or recruiting event and heard a male candidate claim "forget Japan, i wanna hit Bangladesh" or hear a female candidate claim "who needs Rome, or Paris, I cant wait to get to Bangladesh". You cant have a great IS in a hardship location, you cant take the IS out of the location. You can also get great opportunities in regions that arent a hardship. Yes it matters where they are.
The elitism pathway is a straw-man argument, its irrelevant if elite ISs lead to elite Uni admissions, the parents (the clients) believe it does, so it does. Further in many sizable cultures that is exactly true (China, JP, SG, HK). Where you attend school and your performance on a national assessments determines where you get invitations to University.
The larger database is only an advantage if you want to pull in more trash in that "net". ISSs EU database has a higher concentration of ISs over SAs.
I concur, a very large third tier skews the compensation average. $60K isnt overly difficult to find in upper tier ISs and six figure coin isnt unattainable.
@Thames Pirate
AND IE isnt a Disney movie, I have no affective investment in my contributions only data matters. If a letter writer wants rainbows and pixie dust the forum has a unicorn to bring sunshine.
Yes, there are ITs with non teaching spouses and 2+ kids, they started those families after getting to their dream destination, or they had them once they got into a tier 1 IS, or they were fortunate.
There is no might about it, the vast majority of IT candidates are indistinct from one another, and logistical factors such as family size become glaringly amplified. You get down to the short, short interview list and you have 5 IT candidates that are nearly identical, and 2 kids is an extra $20K in cost, thats not a 'meh', or insignificant factor.
Bangladesh is a great example of IS marketing and advertising, great education in a really difficult hardship location. I have never been to a Uni campus or recruiting event and heard a male candidate claim "forget Japan, i wanna hit Bangladesh" or hear a female candidate claim "who needs Rome, or Paris, I cant wait to get to Bangladesh". You cant have a great IS in a hardship location, you cant take the IS out of the location. You can also get great opportunities in regions that arent a hardship. Yes it matters where they are.
The elitism pathway is a straw-man argument, its irrelevant if elite ISs lead to elite Uni admissions, the parents (the clients) believe it does, so it does. Further in many sizable cultures that is exactly true (China, JP, SG, HK). Where you attend school and your performance on a national assessments determines where you get invitations to University.
The larger database is only an advantage if you want to pull in more trash in that "net". ISSs EU database has a higher concentration of ISs over SAs.
Re: Advice on where to start!!
wow! my head is spinning with all the information. But thanks guys for the range of opinions. will have to chew on it slowly.