Hi, I am a very fresh Ph.D. in Quantum Physics.
I am from India currently living in Europe and in a long term relationship with a european english teacher. Both of us are below 28.
I am thinking to take a break from professional research and perhaps go into teaching in International Schools preferably at secondary or above level.
I can teach Physics, Math and Comp. Science which seem to be in demand. But I am not a qualified teacher.
I would greatly appreciate any help and suggestions on the following points. Thanks.
1) Coming from India, (being not native english speaker + indian accent + visa issues ) does it affect my chances of being accepted at a good IS?
2) For long term teaching: which teaching certification should I go for?
a) There are some online courses based in US and UK, which require considerable amount of money (it could be an issue at present)
b) another option is to go to UK, enroll in School direct program (Salaried perhaps) which consumes time but it has an option of obtaining some funding.
c) I'm also thinking to apply for ISs where they might hire without experience or teaching qualification and while doing so obtain a teaching certificate.
3) My gf is european and she teaches english. She holds a qualified teacher certificate but not from english speaking country. Would that qualify her to teach in a reputed IS?
4) We would prefer to find some place in Asia at the moment perhaps Singapore. I would like to know what are the chances of finding an IS in this region given our backgrounds?
What would be the best course of action for us?
Need some help figuring things out
Re: Need some help figuring things out
Someone more experienced than me will come along and probably tell you everything I say now is wrong, but no-one has written anything yet so I'll offer my opinion.
You are not in a good place just now. You're a non-native English speaker (I understand how widely English is spoken India, but most ISs have quite narrow perimeters on what constitutes a native English speaker - UK, USA, SA, Aus, Ire, Canada). You will likely run into problems here.
You also need a teaching cert to teach in any decent IS. The only ones that would hire you without a cert would be the bottom of the barrel (probably bi-lingual, or 'native school teaching English with vague curriculum parameters around it' schools). However, they do exist. A poster was talking just the other day about how her and her partner teach in a school in Bangkok while doing their teaching certs, so they do exist. However, these examples are the exception, not the rule. My current school has a few unqualified teachers and it's a school I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy.
As for your partner - you've not told us what nationality she is, aka what first language she speaks. Again, she's a non-native English speaker. BUT - there are plenty of European schools around. There are French schools everywhere - Japan, China, Vietnam and Egypt are places I know they exist, and I'm sure that's the tip of the iceberg - and I've also seen/heard of a few German schools. These schools will conduct their teaching in their respective language. However, take the European International School in Saigon, Vietnam - a decent school, but teaching is conducted in English.
Online teaching degrees are a potential way in to a job, I guess, but they also suck. When I compare what I learned on my PGCE compared to what I learned when I was actually thrown in the deep end, it's obvious to me that the PGCE was nothing other than a piece of paper to open doors. For me, it has all been the in-classroom experience that matters. Others may not entirely agree with me there. My point is that doing the PGCE physically (including the in-classroom time) and then getting a few years teaching experience in the UK would be significantly better for your development that doing an iPGCE.
A few questions I'll leave you with:
a) If you are just looking to take some time off your current career, is this journey really the way to go? This process takes years, and it will likely take you 5-6 years before you're in a good school that you're content with.
b) Can your partner teach her native language as a foreign language in one of these schools? Most schools offer French, and many also offer German and/or Spanish.
c) You just graduated with a PhD in Quantum Physics. You're obviously incredibly bright, and an academic. Have you thought about the transition to studying/teaching a level significantly below what you are used to? Children are unlikely to be able to engage with the concepts you have been engaging with for the last 7-8 years, and it is difficult to 'lower yourself' to a lower level. This will be especially magnified if do indeed end up in a fourth-rate bilingual school where the students are likely to be highly unmotivated, apathetic, and struggle with English, your accent, and you teaching difficult concepts in English in your accent.
d) How far are you willing to drop your standards? If you want in, you are going to have to drop your standards significantly (at least in the beginning).
The good news - Maths and Physics are arguably the two most in-demand subjects for ISs. There aren't many candidates who teach these subjects. Once you got qualified and had a few years under your belt, you will likely find yourself highly employable to good schools who don't mind your country of origin so much as your English proficiency. But please understand - teaching children is an unrecognisable landscape compared to the research and learning environment you are used to. You really do have to adjust significantly, and I have seen many subject experts (in particular, one History PhD) fail spectacularly because they are unable to evolve to the different learning landscape.
Again, all of this is just my opinion based on various things I have read/seen. I could well be wrong on some of these, and I encourage other posters to correct me.
TL;DR: You are not starting in a good place at all, and you're going to have to bust your balls and make significant compromises to get where you want. However if you are willing to slog through the bullshit for 5-6 years, you and your partner may very well be highly employable, and I see no reason why the two of you couldn't be a power-teaching-couple at a really reputable school in 10 years. Are you willing to go down this lengthy path?
You are not in a good place just now. You're a non-native English speaker (I understand how widely English is spoken India, but most ISs have quite narrow perimeters on what constitutes a native English speaker - UK, USA, SA, Aus, Ire, Canada). You will likely run into problems here.
You also need a teaching cert to teach in any decent IS. The only ones that would hire you without a cert would be the bottom of the barrel (probably bi-lingual, or 'native school teaching English with vague curriculum parameters around it' schools). However, they do exist. A poster was talking just the other day about how her and her partner teach in a school in Bangkok while doing their teaching certs, so they do exist. However, these examples are the exception, not the rule. My current school has a few unqualified teachers and it's a school I wouldn't recommend to my worst enemy.
As for your partner - you've not told us what nationality she is, aka what first language she speaks. Again, she's a non-native English speaker. BUT - there are plenty of European schools around. There are French schools everywhere - Japan, China, Vietnam and Egypt are places I know they exist, and I'm sure that's the tip of the iceberg - and I've also seen/heard of a few German schools. These schools will conduct their teaching in their respective language. However, take the European International School in Saigon, Vietnam - a decent school, but teaching is conducted in English.
Online teaching degrees are a potential way in to a job, I guess, but they also suck. When I compare what I learned on my PGCE compared to what I learned when I was actually thrown in the deep end, it's obvious to me that the PGCE was nothing other than a piece of paper to open doors. For me, it has all been the in-classroom experience that matters. Others may not entirely agree with me there. My point is that doing the PGCE physically (including the in-classroom time) and then getting a few years teaching experience in the UK would be significantly better for your development that doing an iPGCE.
A few questions I'll leave you with:
a) If you are just looking to take some time off your current career, is this journey really the way to go? This process takes years, and it will likely take you 5-6 years before you're in a good school that you're content with.
b) Can your partner teach her native language as a foreign language in one of these schools? Most schools offer French, and many also offer German and/or Spanish.
c) You just graduated with a PhD in Quantum Physics. You're obviously incredibly bright, and an academic. Have you thought about the transition to studying/teaching a level significantly below what you are used to? Children are unlikely to be able to engage with the concepts you have been engaging with for the last 7-8 years, and it is difficult to 'lower yourself' to a lower level. This will be especially magnified if do indeed end up in a fourth-rate bilingual school where the students are likely to be highly unmotivated, apathetic, and struggle with English, your accent, and you teaching difficult concepts in English in your accent.
d) How far are you willing to drop your standards? If you want in, you are going to have to drop your standards significantly (at least in the beginning).
The good news - Maths and Physics are arguably the two most in-demand subjects for ISs. There aren't many candidates who teach these subjects. Once you got qualified and had a few years under your belt, you will likely find yourself highly employable to good schools who don't mind your country of origin so much as your English proficiency. But please understand - teaching children is an unrecognisable landscape compared to the research and learning environment you are used to. You really do have to adjust significantly, and I have seen many subject experts (in particular, one History PhD) fail spectacularly because they are unable to evolve to the different learning landscape.
Again, all of this is just my opinion based on various things I have read/seen. I could well be wrong on some of these, and I encourage other posters to correct me.
TL;DR: You are not starting in a good place at all, and you're going to have to bust your balls and make significant compromises to get where you want. However if you are willing to slog through the bullshit for 5-6 years, you and your partner may very well be highly employable, and I see no reason why the two of you couldn't be a power-teaching-couple at a really reputable school in 10 years. Are you willing to go down this lengthy path?
-
Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Need some help figuring things out
The previous poster is not wrong, although perhaps a bit bleak.
Certainly not being a native English speaker is a negative. So is having a Ph.D. as some directors are threatened by people who are or might appear to be smarter than they are. However, the biggest hurdle is in fact the lack of a teaching qualification.
Most jobs require a certification and a minimum of two years' experience. At least the decent jobs. That said, there are third rate schools in Europe just as there are in the ME. You can get your foot in the door there, getting started on those two years while you are working on your certification. Another option is that you could teach in a national system. Some countries allow that without a certification (Germany, for example, has a program for that). So there are options. Then you will want to gain curriculum experience. The best schools teach the British, American, or IB curriculum. Examples in Europe would be AS London, AS Paris, IS Frankfurt, IS Brussels, IS Amsterdam, Copenhagen IS, IS Hamburg, Zurich IS, Munich IS, IS Hague, AS Warsaw, AIS Bucharest, AIS Budapest, and maybe some of the schools in Berlin. So you will want to get experience teaching those things ASAP. Figure a few years to get experience in those, preferably across subjects. Getting certification (and ideally certification) in multiple subjects--especially higher level math or physics--will help as well. Those positions are notoriously harder to fill.
If, after a few years of putting up with the BS in a for profit school, for example, you still want to do this, then you will have a decent chance as a teaching couple with experience, advanced degrees, curriculum experience, and cross certification. If you can pick up leadership (beyond head of department--think curriculum coordination, IB coordination, etc.) or desirable extracurriculars (not average after school program stuff, but Model UN or coaching a popular sport such as football (soccer) or basketball), all the better.
Certifications from the US, UK, and Canada would be best for what you are wanting. It is, however, the experience that makes you a better teacher, so just get the credential and be done with it as painlessly as possible.
For your lady, if she can cross certify in her native language, humanities/social studies, or something like drama (a bit harder to fill than standard English jobs), then all the better. She, too, would need to get curriculum experience, etc.
Singapore is a tough market. You are more likely to find something to suit your needs in China/HK. There are places that will hire you now, so you can work on getting that experience and working your way up.
Now here is the silver lining (PsyGuy and others hate this part--they are brutally realistic and sometimes overly pessimistic and negative): There are exceptions everywhere. Aim high even as you stay realistic. We were told we could never go to Western Europe with no IB or AP and no international experience, but guess where our first international posting was? You can get into any place with confidence and a clipboard. In other words, you are obviously intelligent. I would imagine your partner is, as well. Aim high, knowing you might be disappointed and that you might have to do the "for profit" route. Obviously the top schools aren't going to look at you, but you might end up at a middle of the road school rather than the very bottom right out of the gate, which would allow you to gain that curriculum experience, etc. more easily and comfortably. Don't despair, be patient and meticulous, and you can get where you want to be. Oh, and get the certification ASAP! Good luck!
Certainly not being a native English speaker is a negative. So is having a Ph.D. as some directors are threatened by people who are or might appear to be smarter than they are. However, the biggest hurdle is in fact the lack of a teaching qualification.
Most jobs require a certification and a minimum of two years' experience. At least the decent jobs. That said, there are third rate schools in Europe just as there are in the ME. You can get your foot in the door there, getting started on those two years while you are working on your certification. Another option is that you could teach in a national system. Some countries allow that without a certification (Germany, for example, has a program for that). So there are options. Then you will want to gain curriculum experience. The best schools teach the British, American, or IB curriculum. Examples in Europe would be AS London, AS Paris, IS Frankfurt, IS Brussels, IS Amsterdam, Copenhagen IS, IS Hamburg, Zurich IS, Munich IS, IS Hague, AS Warsaw, AIS Bucharest, AIS Budapest, and maybe some of the schools in Berlin. So you will want to get experience teaching those things ASAP. Figure a few years to get experience in those, preferably across subjects. Getting certification (and ideally certification) in multiple subjects--especially higher level math or physics--will help as well. Those positions are notoriously harder to fill.
If, after a few years of putting up with the BS in a for profit school, for example, you still want to do this, then you will have a decent chance as a teaching couple with experience, advanced degrees, curriculum experience, and cross certification. If you can pick up leadership (beyond head of department--think curriculum coordination, IB coordination, etc.) or desirable extracurriculars (not average after school program stuff, but Model UN or coaching a popular sport such as football (soccer) or basketball), all the better.
Certifications from the US, UK, and Canada would be best for what you are wanting. It is, however, the experience that makes you a better teacher, so just get the credential and be done with it as painlessly as possible.
For your lady, if she can cross certify in her native language, humanities/social studies, or something like drama (a bit harder to fill than standard English jobs), then all the better. She, too, would need to get curriculum experience, etc.
Singapore is a tough market. You are more likely to find something to suit your needs in China/HK. There are places that will hire you now, so you can work on getting that experience and working your way up.
Now here is the silver lining (PsyGuy and others hate this part--they are brutally realistic and sometimes overly pessimistic and negative): There are exceptions everywhere. Aim high even as you stay realistic. We were told we could never go to Western Europe with no IB or AP and no international experience, but guess where our first international posting was? You can get into any place with confidence and a clipboard. In other words, you are obviously intelligent. I would imagine your partner is, as well. Aim high, knowing you might be disappointed and that you might have to do the "for profit" route. Obviously the top schools aren't going to look at you, but you might end up at a middle of the road school rather than the very bottom right out of the gate, which would allow you to gain that curriculum experience, etc. more easily and comfortably. Don't despair, be patient and meticulous, and you can get where you want to be. Oh, and get the certification ASAP! Good luck!
Re: Need some help figuring things out
Thank you guys for your replies.
I guess, I just needed to know that having my background it would not be impossible to have career in ISs.
Thanks for your honest opinions and encouragements :)
My partner is Polish which, I assume, is not the demanding subject in ISs.
She does have a Masters degree in American studies and Diploma in theater (which could be a plus for her).
I have thought it through and just want to weigh all my options.
I love my freedom and my research. I do not imagine myself out of academia. I am just hoping that perhaps with ISs, I might get to do both eventually without facing immense pressure of publishing any bs work and can get to focus on quality research just on my own. And we get to maintain our relationship as well :)
Let us hope for the best :)
FYI: yesterday, while surfing on the net, I found a very interesting program specifically targeted towards PhDs called "Researchers in School" in UK.
The salary seems nice around 30-36k from the very first year + I get to have extra free time for my research + teaching experience + QTS :)
If I can get into this, it would be quite ideal for me. I get to have a break from professional research + get to have cert in case we both decide to have career in ISs.
This also opens a possibility for my partner to get her QTS in UK :)
I guess, I just needed to know that having my background it would not be impossible to have career in ISs.
Thanks for your honest opinions and encouragements :)
My partner is Polish which, I assume, is not the demanding subject in ISs.
She does have a Masters degree in American studies and Diploma in theater (which could be a plus for her).
I have thought it through and just want to weigh all my options.
I love my freedom and my research. I do not imagine myself out of academia. I am just hoping that perhaps with ISs, I might get to do both eventually without facing immense pressure of publishing any bs work and can get to focus on quality research just on my own. And we get to maintain our relationship as well :)
Let us hope for the best :)
FYI: yesterday, while surfing on the net, I found a very interesting program specifically targeted towards PhDs called "Researchers in School" in UK.
The salary seems nice around 30-36k from the very first year + I get to have extra free time for my research + teaching experience + QTS :)
If I can get into this, it would be quite ideal for me. I get to have a break from professional research + get to have cert in case we both decide to have career in ISs.
This also opens a possibility for my partner to get her QTS in UK :)
-
Thames Pirate
- Posts: 1150
- Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:06 am
Re: Need some help figuring things out
One of my good friends is Polish, and she taught at two different IS in non-Polish countries, and she now teaches at a very posh, very British private school in London. So if her English is good (and I'd imagine living in the UK it would have to be), then that is not at all a knock on her--or you, for that matter.
Sounds like you have some good options and enough information that you can at least start looking at the best options. Let us know if we can help!
Sounds like you have some good options and enough information that you can at least start looking at the best options. Let us know if we can help!
Response
I am in general agreement with previous contributors, the biggest challenge I see is your ethnic background and language. You just dont fit the image that lower tier ISs want, and when you look at the demographics of IT it is mostly a sea of western Caucasians. Your going to get a lot of token interviews, and then nos, because your the perfect candidate to pass on and a IS/recruiter can than say they werent dismissive to minorities.
Taking an aside your GF is going to become an issue at some point, you arent married so your not a teaching couple, and your going to have visa issues, and your GFs fields of study arent in demand (American Studies is at most a single course elective in a humanities/SS department) and theater while there are vacancies every year isnt a high needs area, only a few ISs in Poland would want or need an IT to teach Polish. ESOL is typically not taught by non western ITs (and thats defined as British, American, Australian (including New Zealand), and Canadian. If you are referring to Literature that with drama/theater is a marketable combination. Her teaching credential is acceptable and she can very easily add QTS as well. Her greatest strength is she has an EU passport.
At that point depending on her years of experience shes a marketable and viable IT candidate, you become a negative, or more accurately youre a significant unknown and risk. You arent married, your visa issues will likely be difficult, and you arent attractive to an IS based on your background. You have a highly sought after field, but no one knows if you can transfer that knowledge to secondary age students. There are many brilliant scholars who make horrible ITs because they cant shift paradigms to address the needs of the age group their students are. You may, you may not, even after training it may be something you just cant do. The other issue is that your education background is from a region that isnt and doesnt embrace western style meds/peds. ISs in western systems do not embrace the direct teach/lecture as SOTA and reliance on it is heavily discouraged.
There isnt much difference in teaching qualifications and marketability between anyone of them. The pathway you want to map, is what gets you into IB the easiest and fastest. You find American ITs in BSs and British ITs in ASs. The only practical limits are 1) that there are a number of lower tier CAN ISs that require a credential from the province that is sponsoring the IS. 2) That at as you approach the level of elite tier ISs there is more homogeneity in faculty credentials.
For long term marketability QTS has the advantage of not having PD requirements and is a lifetime license. A few states in the US offer similar or near similar options as well but they will require more application work.
For a science/maths IT a US license offers the easiest route to expanding your credential teaching areas, through exam, allowing you to add science, maths and ICT credentials much easier than you would find elsewhere.
As I addressed earlier your GF is qualified in instructional services in an IS, she can easily add QTS if she wishes (and I would advise her too).
SG is highly competitive, but every region has its third tier. An option for you in SG is that the MOE hires a significant number of foreign ITs to teach in their DS system, and the environment would likely be more compatible to what you were indoctrinated in how teaching is done. Large classes, lots of direct teach and rote memorization. In SG the municipal system compensates better than many of the third tier ISs. Your GF would be eligible for an IS appointment that could include an OSH package providing you housing, and with two salaries you could do very well. Understand however that the ITs that are typivally unsuccessful include those with very restricted and focused availability, if you only want to go to SG, you may easily find yourself with nothing.
The School direct program you described would be much more work than you need too. I would advise seeking a Missouri teaching credential. They have a route that awards an initial teaching credential to those who hold a doctorate. The four year certificate is renewable indefinitely, and you can transfer it to other states to add credentials. You would have to travel to the state to take the exam (and likely have finger prints completed for your background check) this would require flights and a brief hotel stay, but you could have the process completed this year. There is no EPP/ITT requirement. You could then use the Missouri certificate and apply for full QTS.
Taking an aside your GF is going to become an issue at some point, you arent married so your not a teaching couple, and your going to have visa issues, and your GFs fields of study arent in demand (American Studies is at most a single course elective in a humanities/SS department) and theater while there are vacancies every year isnt a high needs area, only a few ISs in Poland would want or need an IT to teach Polish. ESOL is typically not taught by non western ITs (and thats defined as British, American, Australian (including New Zealand), and Canadian. If you are referring to Literature that with drama/theater is a marketable combination. Her teaching credential is acceptable and she can very easily add QTS as well. Her greatest strength is she has an EU passport.
At that point depending on her years of experience shes a marketable and viable IT candidate, you become a negative, or more accurately youre a significant unknown and risk. You arent married, your visa issues will likely be difficult, and you arent attractive to an IS based on your background. You have a highly sought after field, but no one knows if you can transfer that knowledge to secondary age students. There are many brilliant scholars who make horrible ITs because they cant shift paradigms to address the needs of the age group their students are. You may, you may not, even after training it may be something you just cant do. The other issue is that your education background is from a region that isnt and doesnt embrace western style meds/peds. ISs in western systems do not embrace the direct teach/lecture as SOTA and reliance on it is heavily discouraged.
There isnt much difference in teaching qualifications and marketability between anyone of them. The pathway you want to map, is what gets you into IB the easiest and fastest. You find American ITs in BSs and British ITs in ASs. The only practical limits are 1) that there are a number of lower tier CAN ISs that require a credential from the province that is sponsoring the IS. 2) That at as you approach the level of elite tier ISs there is more homogeneity in faculty credentials.
For long term marketability QTS has the advantage of not having PD requirements and is a lifetime license. A few states in the US offer similar or near similar options as well but they will require more application work.
For a science/maths IT a US license offers the easiest route to expanding your credential teaching areas, through exam, allowing you to add science, maths and ICT credentials much easier than you would find elsewhere.
As I addressed earlier your GF is qualified in instructional services in an IS, she can easily add QTS if she wishes (and I would advise her too).
SG is highly competitive, but every region has its third tier. An option for you in SG is that the MOE hires a significant number of foreign ITs to teach in their DS system, and the environment would likely be more compatible to what you were indoctrinated in how teaching is done. Large classes, lots of direct teach and rote memorization. In SG the municipal system compensates better than many of the third tier ISs. Your GF would be eligible for an IS appointment that could include an OSH package providing you housing, and with two salaries you could do very well. Understand however that the ITs that are typivally unsuccessful include those with very restricted and focused availability, if you only want to go to SG, you may easily find yourself with nothing.
The School direct program you described would be much more work than you need too. I would advise seeking a Missouri teaching credential. They have a route that awards an initial teaching credential to those who hold a doctorate. The four year certificate is renewable indefinitely, and you can transfer it to other states to add credentials. You would have to travel to the state to take the exam (and likely have finger prints completed for your background check) this would require flights and a brief hotel stay, but you could have the process completed this year. There is no EPP/ITT requirement. You could then use the Missouri certificate and apply for full QTS.