Hong Kong

[runningsloth]

What are your thoughts on housing in HK, and the availability of outdoor space/amenities for kids? If you were at a top school, would your housing allowance, or housing provided by the school, be of decent quality?

[DCgirl]

runningsloth wrote:
> What are your thoughts on housing in HK, and the availability of outdoor
> space/amenities for kids? If you were at a top school, would your housing
> allowance, or housing provided by the school, be of decent quality?

Housing is generally small in square footage and expensive. My school provided a housing allowance. I don't know many that provide the actual housing. You would be able to find a quality home. You can certainly find places with more outdoor space, particularly if you are willing to move out of the central area.

[PsyGuy]

Not in HK, at least not as far as private space is at issue. Finding community space in the form of playgrounds, etc. are readily available and not at greatly increased expense.

Many ISs in HK provide a housing allowance, and in the case of ISs that provide housing its more a preferred property, that has an arrangement with the IS. In such cases the IS gives you an allowance and you advance it to the property agent/owner.

Housing is generally expensive and small (but high quality), housing allowances are often more a subsidy that offsets the housing costs rather than cover the whole cost. It is common for many ITs to have to contribute some amount of salary directly to their housing costs.

[runningsloth]

How does the housing allowance stack up at a place like HKIS? I know you can choose that vs. having them find you a place.

[zanyplum]

I am currently working at a top school in Hong Kong and the allowance is adequate for singles, but even more so for staff who have a dependent or teaching couples. I live in a popular area of HK island in a large-ish flat (according to HK standards) and the allowance covers all of my rent. There is also the option for the school to provide housing but it is up to the school's discretion on the housing/area chosen. Most staff members with children opt to take the allowance and live in Stanley or Repulse Bay where there are beach areas to enjoy or playgrounds nearby. The quality of their living accommodations are definitely more than decent.

[runningsloth]

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like you are working at the school that my wife and I are looking at. What does those who choose to have the school provide housing generally end up with? We have two little kids and outdoor space is critical to anywhere we go. Would you take the allowance? Can you find something in Stanley or Repulse Bay of adequate size for the allowance? Thanks

[zanyplum]

I think regardless what you decide, you will end up in a quality apartment. Most teaching couples with families tend to live in Repulse Bay, Stanley, and Tai Tam whether they take the allowance or opt for school provided housing. I think if there is something in particular that is important to you, you may want to go for the allowance. One thing to mention though is that finding an apartment can be competitive and time consuming during the summer months since new families and teachers tend to arrive during that time. For me location was important, so it was worth it to take the time and effort to find my own place.

I would recommend asking to get in touch with a few teaching couples or teachers with dependents currently working at the school who may be able to speak more about the kind of housing in which you are interested. Best of luck!

[overseaslifer]

I live in HK also at a top school and my opinion is slightly different to that of the previous poster. The truth is housing is a struggle in Hong Kong.

Properties are terrible value for money. Apartments are rarely updated, as landlords have little incentive to invest as they know they will have tenants thanks to high demand. Properties are very small. Take a look at http://www.squarefoot.com.hk for examples.

Another issue is that landlords increase rent capriciously. Colleagues have told me of being forced to move every two years thanks to this practice.

My school's housing allowance is one of the highest in Hong Kong but paying over is the rule. It would be normal for a single teacher living in central areas of HK Island to fork out USD300-1000 a month out of pocket.

(And the ESF schools, one of the largest employers, only offer a minimal housing stipend)

Families looking for space are forced into outlying areas such as Discovery Bay. This makes for longer commutes, and depending on the location of your school and whether or not they provide free bussing (many don't), commuting can be a significant expense, especially if you are reliant on taxis.

Finally most schools will not give you much help looking for housing, so be prepared for a time consuming and expensive house hunt when you arrive. Agencies generally charge one month's rent in commission.

I love living in Hong Kong but housing is one of the big downsides to living here. The lack of support from the school and the start-up costs for housing can make HK a stressful transition during the first few weeks and the uncertainty continues every time your lease comes up for renewal.

[zanyplum]

@overseaslifer- I am glad you wrote about the many cons of housing in HK, and I am not going to disagree. I was under the impression that teaching couples/families had it better in terms of the allowance/choice based on my married teaching colleagues. I could definitely be wrong about that. As a single at my school (which sounds like it is where you work too) the housing allowance and what it gets you in HK is our biggest gripe. I got fairly lucky in that I have a two bedroom flat and I don't pay out of pocket, but I also haven't had to renew my lease yet so we'll what happens.

[overseaslifer]

Well... I feel like we are all in the same boat...

Try finding what a Westerner would accept as 'family' housing on HK island for under $35,000/month... The OP mentioned outdoor spaces for kids to play in ... in central areas of HK and Kowloon that is essentially non-existent, don't you think? You need to go to Discovery Bay to find that at a reasonable cost.

Any HKers with kids, feel free to weigh in.... :)

[runningsloth]

The school we are looking at would give approximately $50,000/month for our housing. We would not be looking in the central areas of HK, but more in areas like Stanley or Repulse Bay. Would this be possible? We are ok paying a bit out of pocket to get something as well. Are Stanley and Repulse Bay the places you would want to live with a family with little ones?

[PsyGuy]

@overseaslifer

The availability of green space depends on definition. Accessibility to parks is not difficult to find, if by outdoor space you define as personal and private as part of your residence than I agree as I described earlier.

[overseaslifer]

On that budget you could definitely live in Stanley or Repulse Bay. I have colleagues with kids who live there and it is a popular place for expat families...

I just can't speak to what the outdoor areas would be like that your kids would have access to. I just don't have the knowledge :/

Hope you will find someone to advise...

[PsyGuy]

@overseaslifer

At the very least the LW have access to small parks/green space. there is going to be somewhere for kids to play, even if it involves a brief walk to get there.

[Overhere]

Hong Kong is mostly green space. It may not be organized into playgrounds with slides and swingsets but the ability to get out of doors and away from people is amazing.