I would concur with Nomad68's lifestyle choices. If the school does not provide secured compound housing, you'd want to live where that is provided. Also, if you haven't been there, it's hard to imagine how conspicuous you can feel, even wearing an abaya. Having a compound where you can wear shorts, swim in a swimsuit, and move about without feeling on display is an essential part of expat life there. I would want that even more in Riyadh, because you cant easily get away the way you can to Bahrain if you live in Dhahran.
For in-country terrorism, I think it does matter that there hasn't been an attack since 2007. There are threats and comments against Westerners that we heard about, but the violence there was Shiite vs. Suni or skirmishes on the borders. In terms of being targeted as an individual, I never felt that. In terms of being targeted as a Western teacher at an international school, there were threats that were raised. That's the thing about violence...it's not a problem until it's a problem. That's true if you're mugged in Boston, raped in LA, or attacked in Riyadh. I believe in being careful and taking precautions, but staying out of Saudi is not a guarantee that you are safer than you are in other places from violent crime.
Riyadh - safety
Reply
@sitka
You should see some of the driving in Asia and India and Turkey will bring you closer to God than you may like.
@nuts88
You really need to ask yourself if the lifestyle of living in a guarded and enclosed enclave/compound is the lifestyle you wan. Do you want to be in a region where that type of security is necessary for safety and comfort? That practical reality permeates living in the region. You have to be a mercenary when working in the ME, you go and do it for the coin. If the coin is the only thing that matters than it doesnt matter if there are fences, gates, armed security, etc.. You go to bank as much as you can and then move on and out. If the living scenario gets too risky for what your comfortable with than exit pursuit by a bear. If there is any factor that the coin doesnt compensate you for then the Kingdom isnt for you.
You should see some of the driving in Asia and India and Turkey will bring you closer to God than you may like.
@nuts88
You really need to ask yourself if the lifestyle of living in a guarded and enclosed enclave/compound is the lifestyle you wan. Do you want to be in a region where that type of security is necessary for safety and comfort? That practical reality permeates living in the region. You have to be a mercenary when working in the ME, you go and do it for the coin. If the coin is the only thing that matters than it doesnt matter if there are fences, gates, armed security, etc.. You go to bank as much as you can and then move on and out. If the living scenario gets too risky for what your comfortable with than exit pursuit by a bear. If there is any factor that the coin doesnt compensate you for then the Kingdom isnt for you.
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shadowjack
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Re: Riyadh - safety
The flip side, knowing the school as well, is that if you have kids, for them on the compound it will be like it was for kids in the 60's - playing at friends and outside all the time, friends nearby (lots of the children on a compound with a school attached often go to that school), easy for your kids to walk to school and home, safe environment, swimming pool, games room nearby, etc.
Riyadh isn't the hell that some people make it out to be. We quite enjoyed our time there and if the right situation arose, would return.
Riyadh isn't the hell that some people make it out to be. We quite enjoyed our time there and if the right situation arose, would return.
Re: Riyadh - safety
I lived in Riyadh for two years and can say that Shadowjack has the best/most reliable info about living in Riyadh. If safety is your only concern I can say that for me and my family we felt totally safe all of the time. We generally found people (Saudis) to be aloof tending to mind their own business, but friendly and curious once you start talking to them. Other non western expats loved seeing and talking to us and were super friendly. I can honestly say that I was out in the city and surrounding desert a lot more than most of the other expats I knew and never felt unsafe at all, even with the horrible driving (I'll admit that I learned quickly to drive like a local). We lived on a compound but if I were to go back (which I would at the right school) I'm not sure that I would want to live on a compound. We didn't really like the compound life that much and would not like living at one of the bigger/nicer compounds at all, but I recognize that that is just my personal feeling about it.
The bigger question is the school that you think is a perfect fit. IMHO, I'm not sure that there is a perfect school in Riyadh at all. AISR or the British school are clearly the best, but most teachers say that they work you really hard. I'd like more of a balance in my life and don't want to work somewhere that thinks they own me or something like that.
Final thoughts, we (whole family including teenage daughter) loved living in Riyadh, were sad to leave (poor fit at the school we were at forced us to look elsewhere) and could be persuaded to return to the Kingdom.
The bigger question is the school that you think is a perfect fit. IMHO, I'm not sure that there is a perfect school in Riyadh at all. AISR or the British school are clearly the best, but most teachers say that they work you really hard. I'd like more of a balance in my life and don't want to work somewhere that thinks they own me or something like that.
Final thoughts, we (whole family including teenage daughter) loved living in Riyadh, were sad to leave (poor fit at the school we were at forced us to look elsewhere) and could be persuaded to return to the Kingdom.
Re: Riyadh - safety
Once again thanks for everyone's replies, it's great to get so many different perspectives. One more question to throw into the mix... does the current state of affairs between Iran and Saudi not change any of the positive views?
When I read reports of "most dangerous crisis for 30 years", "Daesh targeting..... western teachers in Saudi".
I really am trying to eliminate reasons for not applying for the job, but each day I read about the potential threats and think about the safety of my family. On one hand I'm thinking "there's 6 million expats in Saudi and they don't seem to be running", but on the other I'm thinking "you're selfish and foolish to risk the safety of your wife and kids in such potentially volatile times".
I am genuinely finding it so hard to decide as I have no first hand knowledge, and am constantly glued to the news websites!
When I read reports of "most dangerous crisis for 30 years", "Daesh targeting..... western teachers in Saudi".
I really am trying to eliminate reasons for not applying for the job, but each day I read about the potential threats and think about the safety of my family. On one hand I'm thinking "there's 6 million expats in Saudi and they don't seem to be running", but on the other I'm thinking "you're selfish and foolish to risk the safety of your wife and kids in such potentially volatile times".
I am genuinely finding it so hard to decide as I have no first hand knowledge, and am constantly glued to the news websites!
Re: Riyadh - safety
i would see if you could talk to a few people from the school who have kids and see what they say. they may or may not give you an accurate picture of life there so - like all opinions in this forum - take them with a grain of salt.
remember everyone but saudis are expats, so that includes all the cheap imported labourers as well. last figure i saw was around 10 million expats (1/3 of the total population) of which about 100-150000 would be westerners.
people said i was an idiot to go - even into the general area - to the UAE. but it was cake. unless iran and saudi erupt into full on war, i would think you'd be safe.
however, as others have noted, you have more to fear from the driving than anything else.
good luck on your decision!
v.
remember everyone but saudis are expats, so that includes all the cheap imported labourers as well. last figure i saw was around 10 million expats (1/3 of the total population) of which about 100-150000 would be westerners.
people said i was an idiot to go - even into the general area - to the UAE. but it was cake. unless iran and saudi erupt into full on war, i would think you'd be safe.
however, as others have noted, you have more to fear from the driving than anything else.
good luck on your decision!
v.
Discussion
@shadowjack
The Kingdom is exactly the poo hole it is.
@nuts88
The current conflict doesnt change anything. Thats how risk and hindsight work, if you become targeted your going to feel stupid for putting your loved ones in the line of fire. If nothing happens your going to feel stupid for doubting yourself. There are a whole lot of ways you could be found holding the stupid stick, but theres only one way to find out...
The Kingdom is exactly the poo hole it is.
@nuts88
The current conflict doesnt change anything. Thats how risk and hindsight work, if you become targeted your going to feel stupid for putting your loved ones in the line of fire. If nothing happens your going to feel stupid for doubting yourself. There are a whole lot of ways you could be found holding the stupid stick, but theres only one way to find out...
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Riyadh - safety
Nuts68 - Daesh is not a major threat in Saudi - and if it is, it is to the Shiites in the Eastern Province. As to expats being targetted, by your logic never go to the UAE - a Western teacher was murdered in a bathroom there by a normal Emirati lady who bought into the kill a Westerner crap and acted on it. She will be put to death is my expectation - if not, away for a long long time.
@Psyguy - one man's poison is another man's wine. Sorry you hated the ME - but then again, you weren't really there long enough once you decided you didn't like it, now were you? Your opinion is well-known, as is mine. I've lived in a couple of ME countries and Saudi offered much more freedom, opportunity, and a population that was not as "it's all about me" as others in the region.
Just my two halalas.
Shad
@Psyguy - one man's poison is another man's wine. Sorry you hated the ME - but then again, you weren't really there long enough once you decided you didn't like it, now were you? Your opinion is well-known, as is mine. I've lived in a couple of ME countries and Saudi offered much more freedom, opportunity, and a population that was not as "it's all about me" as others in the region.
Just my two halalas.
Shad
Re: Riyadh - safety
I have been teaching in riyadh since August.... And so far so good!!! Never felt threatened or scared for my safety since being here... But like with any major city you have to take precautions and be aware!
Re: Riyadh - safety
I am currently in Riyadh and I would say it is safe for westerners/expats and families as long as the usual precautions are considered. Keep a low profile, don't get into routines or habits of going to the same places at the same times. Security is visible in Riyadh and there are roadblocks and checks. To be honest terrorism and safety are minor concerns for a family considering KSA. There are other issues such as schooling for your kids, your wife's happiness, the lack or things to do! It is a good place to make money but do come with a plan and an exit strategy.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Riyadh - safety
Oh yes, vandsmith, as much as I liked Saudi I was well aware from the get-go that everything has an expiry date. We were happy to go when we left. We do miss many things about it, but are enjoying year 3 now in our present location and signed up for year 4. I know people who went to Saudi expecting to finish there forever - and boy, were they ever disillusioned when the time came to go and they hadn't really planned an exit.
Re: Riyadh - safety
shadowjack wrote:
> Oh yes, vandsmith, as much as I liked Saudi I was well aware from the
> get-go that everything has an expiry date. We were happy to go when we
> left. We do miss many things about it, but are enjoying year 3 now in our
> present location and signed up for year 4. I know people who went to Saudi
> expecting to finish there forever - and boy, were they ever disillusioned
> when the time came to go and they hadn't really planned an exit.
what do you mean by "planning an exit"? as in where you're going next?
v.
> Oh yes, vandsmith, as much as I liked Saudi I was well aware from the
> get-go that everything has an expiry date. We were happy to go when we
> left. We do miss many things about it, but are enjoying year 3 now in our
> present location and signed up for year 4. I know people who went to Saudi
> expecting to finish there forever - and boy, were they ever disillusioned
> when the time came to go and they hadn't really planned an exit.
what do you mean by "planning an exit"? as in where you're going next?
v.
Re: Riyadh - safety
Well, as far as terrorism in Saudi - and acts against expats in particular - there have been organized attacks like the massacre at Khobar in 2004, and random acts by individuals against individuals such as the stabbing/slashing of an Irish teacher in Jubail in the mid 2000s. Some of these individual attacks might be downplayed as crimes rather than acts of terrorism.
The threat from ISIS is not just coordinated attacks but those lone wolves inspired to commit an atrocity for the cause, such as the grenade attack in Qatar in 2005, the stabbing of a female teacher in Abu Dhabi (UAE) in 2014, and the recent machete attack on a Jewish teacher in France.
No where is safe from such acts and it is not hard to imagine the situation getting worse in the EU area at any time in the future (since Merkel effectively opened the doors). In that regard Saudi seems as safe or unsafe as anywhere else. I would say that if it really does worry you then don't consider Saudi because the nature of the lifestyle for expats here is that small worries can become big worries if you are not careful.
Personally I feel safe in Saudi - and would never consider Egypt or Africa (having survived one post-revolution experience) so its horses for courses.
The threat from ISIS is not just coordinated attacks but those lone wolves inspired to commit an atrocity for the cause, such as the grenade attack in Qatar in 2005, the stabbing of a female teacher in Abu Dhabi (UAE) in 2014, and the recent machete attack on a Jewish teacher in France.
No where is safe from such acts and it is not hard to imagine the situation getting worse in the EU area at any time in the future (since Merkel effectively opened the doors). In that regard Saudi seems as safe or unsafe as anywhere else. I would say that if it really does worry you then don't consider Saudi because the nature of the lifestyle for expats here is that small worries can become big worries if you are not careful.
Personally I feel safe in Saudi - and would never consider Egypt or Africa (having survived one post-revolution experience) so its horses for courses.