Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA fair

damok
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Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:33 am

Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA fair

Post by damok »

Hi all,

I have been contacted by a few schools prior to the Melbourne SA fair.

One recruiter has scheduled an interview shortly after their presentation. This is a day prior to the general requesting of interviews and interviews been conducted. Another has requested an interview during the fair but I am not yet sure if this will happen during the time others have their interviews or the day prior. I'm still waiting to hear back from them.

I was wondering if this could be considered quite a good sign to have these interviews/informal talks with the recruiters prior to when everyone else gets their opportunity? In these circumstances, are jobs often offered to teachers during this time or soon after?

I also have a few questions about the SA fair:
1. Is it a good idea to send emails to all schools I have some interest in working at? That strategy seems to have worked so far but it would also be quite time consuming. Or is it best just to contact the ones I am really interested in (done that already) and then go through the letter box process.
2. What happens with the whole letter box situation? Do you just fill in a note requesting an interview, or do you fill in a note requesting a chance to meet with the recruiter and then they offer you an interview?
3. Are job offers normally made during the interview in the hotel rooms or do you usually have to wait to be called or be given a note in your letter box/folder.
4. The portfolios: I have printed out my CV with a picture, a letter of recommendation and a copy of my academic transcript. Do you leave these sort of things in the school's folder during the fair or do you only hand it to the school if you are given an interview.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all and best of luck during the recruiting season.
wrldtrvlr123
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Re: Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

Hi.

Congrats on the interest. The interview before the fair can run both ways. It could mean a school is potentially looking to lock you up before the fair, or it could mean they see you as a dark horse for their school and want a closer look before they decide whether they want to invest an interview spot on you. You will be in the best place to decide which is most likely in your case.

Definitely contact anyone you may have interest in talking to. It takes some time but can be well worth it. Many schools will contact you prior to the fair if they have any interest at all in you as a candidate but many do not. At the fair you should again drop a note/CV in the box of any school you wish to pursue. Schools will also drop you a note if they want to talk. This is usually in the form of come see us at interview sign up but could be an invitation to contact them prior to sign up or to offer an interview time.

There is usually an interview sign up session where all the schools are sitting at tables, they let the candidates in and everyone does a discreet dash and dance to try and talk their way into an interview slot with the schools they are most interested in. Schools will generally have many of their slots filled or reserved before this event but it is quite possible to talk your way in if they have an opening in your area.

Keep your portfolio for the interview. Have a CV ready to hand out but in general they will not have time to look at more outside of an interview. And yes, jobs can be offered in interviews or anytime during or after the fair. In general, schools will call you back for a 2nd interview if they are really interested. Try to attend any presentations for schools you are highly interested in or are curious about. Good luck!
PsyGuy
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Response

Post by PsyGuy »

If it was a fair other than the Melbourne fair, than you would have the same experience as how Master class/rock star ITs are recruited. In general they dont "do" signup, or cattle calls. They get "selected" and the interview before the fair is more a meet and greet, shake the hand and look into their eye before making an official appointment.
Melbourne though is a dump fair, and its likely a recruiter is attempting to secure staff before they have to compete against other options. Some third tier ISs need everyone with a pulse they can get so they pre-night recruit in the hopes you will feel angsty and take anything. The other potential issue is that this recruiter needs a lot of staff, knows they arent competitive, but cant afford to wait a day and get a lot of declines. So they pre-night recruit, such that they an expect offer responses in time for sign up.
It is still a good sign however, as long as your not pushed into an offer without time to consider the individual merits of the offer and an opportunity to observe your marketability compared to other ISs. In both cases offers are generally made during or following the interview. There isnt much utility in grinding through candidate interviews early without a very compelling rational.

If you dont establish contact with recruiters and leadership they wont be able to observe your interest. While recruiters and leadership do contact candidates at the fair, its usually the other way around. Candidates signup with recruiters/leadership not the other way around. You need to assess your interest in a particular IS. You have a limited amount of time to stand in lines. Some of them can be quite long and lengthy (high desire ISs), others will be vacant (hardship regions). You also have a fixed resource in interview time. As you and recruiters/leadership fill your interview slots it leaves less time to find mutually agreeable interview times. Early spots (first days spots) are prime resource times, if you fill those early with ISs you arent much interested in you may not got a premium interview slot early with an IS you have high interest in.
I generally advise making as early contact as possible, you can always adjust your schedule later, and email applications are cheap and easy. It may be time consuming but if it isnt worth the bother why go to the fair in the first place.

Your box and the recruiters/leadership box is just one means of communication. It was implemented because the space under recruiters doors was getting cluttered and unmanageable. There are two pathways of securing interviews: invitations and signup. When you arrive you may have some invitations from recruiters/leadership. These are two types General invitations asking you to stop buy their booth at signup and Specific invitations suggesting an interview. General invites tend to be hit or miss, they can be a real time waster (some lower tier ISs issue a lot of invitations with the intent of building their line, everyone gets an invite thinks their special but nearly everyone gets an invite), or they can be a request for a direct interview done poorly. Specific invitations are generally strong indicators you have been pre-screened and are one of a recruiters/leadership top selectees. They likely are reserving a pool of early interview slots for their preferred candidates. Fairs for a recruiter/leadership are all about time management. You have very limited time and each slot is valuable, early slots and followed by first day slots are the most desirable. As a candidate you use the recruiters box to deliver application/resume packets (thats your request) then if the recruiter/leadership is interested you may find a note (or email) with an invitation.
You get the bulk of your interviews though signup (the cattle call). On the morning of the first full day the recruiters/leadership have stations in a ball/banquet room. You wait in line during this period with the ISs you are interested in and get somewhere between a few second to a few minutes to pitch yourself to a recruiter/leadership.

Offers can be made at both times. You need to go into an interview knowing that it may become contract negotiation. Sometimes you blink and the transition between interview and bargaining happens. Recruiters/Leadership have a preference list, and candidates on that list may not be at any particular fair. There may be 1 person on that list or several. In general if a recruiter can secure an appointment to one of those preferences (in no particular order) they will make offers at the venue to one of those candidates. These are the candidates (for each vacancy) that the recruiter/leadership send invitations too because they want to talk to those candidates as early in the interview process as possible (first day interviews). They want to talk to them as soon as possible so that they dont run to afoul of the "consideration" period for candidates. This way they can have their responses before the next day)preferably that evening or afternoon). In these cases contract offers are made. Second day interviews and later are generally building a pool interviews, the recruiter/leadership doesnt know if they will sign any of their preference selectees at all (and some of those selectees may be at later fairs), they want to have a pool of interviewed candidates they can go to for later. Some recruiters/leadership at bottom tier ISs just want to fill rooms with qualified ITs in which case they make immediate offers to whoever the first candidates are. Some recruiters/leadership are just building a pool which will get sorted out back at the IS and offers made at the end of peak recruiting.

You dont need the references (recommendations) and transcripts. Its fine to bring one or two copies, but most of that will be handled by the ISs HR staff, in which case scanned copies are better emailed, its one less thing a recruiter/leadership member has to keep track of and transport. What you need is an Ichiro, and if your going to do one, a real portfolio. A portfolio isnt an employment folder of documents. You leave your Ichiro in the folder or under the door or make it your first presentation in line at signup. If you get an invitation or request you follow that up with a resume.
damok
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Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:33 am

Re: Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA

Post by damok »

Great responses from both of you. This has filled in a lot of the blanks for me. I'm feeling a lot more confident about the process.

Thanks PsyGuy for outlining some of the motivating factors behind the admins' decisions. Having never worked within international education and having never set foot in a job fair, I really had no idea what to expect. Your response has changed that.

One last question. What is an Ichiro? I've never heard of the term before. Is it like a portfolio of the work I do in class?
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

An Ichiro is named after a long lost member of the forum, who was a very valuable contributor, much like the Reisgio effect.
An Ichiro is essentially an alternative resume to describe marketing any type of flashy/gimmicky/creative method of introducing yourself to recruiters. It would generally involve color photos of you teaching, amazing students projects, etc and a more limited amount of text. Some people go all out and mimic advertising flyers, brochures, wanted posters etc (kind of a high risk/high reward approach).
During signup your only going to have about 10-30 seconds to make contact with a recruiter and get an interview slot. A resume doesnt convey the highlights of you as a candidate. You want to convey the top three bullet points of what makes you special or at least worthy of consideration. Enter the Ichiro, which in its basic form is a flyer (in color) with basic contact information, some visual representations of your work, and a few bullet points of what makes you special. Ichiros are also good for slipping under doors and in school folders. A three fold brochure or business cards allow you to carry your resume everywhere without being cumbersome.
Ive seen a number of Ichiros from business card resumes with a photo, contact info and a few stared bullet points with a QR code leading to a digital portfolio, to printed CDS, coupons (Good for one amazing teacher, time limited must be redeemed at [web address] and currency bills for a "1,000,000 teacher", 3 fold "sales" brochures, a couple teachers have done commercials and one did a full 22minute "info-mercial" that included a staged interview answering 5 pretty common questions, that was distributed on flash drives (you get a couple of flash drives from schools in your invite folder). The best one I ever got was a full, professionally bound magazine on slick paper stock it was 62 pages long and had articles discussing their teaching philosophy, a center fold with their bio and resume, articles about differentiation, their approach to the whole student, special needs, learning support, a couple stories about past schools and what they learned, and what they wish theyd known. It was extremely well done. The most recent unusual one were bottles of wine the candidate had created custom labels for that had a photo superimposed over a vineyard, a mock review to one side and a short list of bullet points describing their strengths in a “Quality Profile”.
Walter
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Re: Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA

Post by Walter »

Beware the Ichiro!
Being interesting or novel may be fine, but go beyond that at your peril. If I received a "time-limited coupon" to redeem an amazing teacher, or a fake bill to buy a million dollar teacher, my reaction would be to think "what a tosser" rather than this is a candidate I must interview.
Psyguy's best ever Ichiro is complete nonsense. The idea that any school head would ever read 62 pages in the midst of a recruitment fair is barking mad.
Dress properly, look smart and have a well crafted resume and letter, and hope that the recruitment gods smile on you!
damok
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Re: Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA

Post by damok »

^
I was thinking of making a A4 colour page with a couple of pictures of myself (I don't have any of me teaching at Australian schools due to privacy issues - I was thinking a professional picture, one of me travelling and one me teaching English overseas), my teaching philosophy, some dot points on experience, education and interests, plus contact info for my referees. I was going to try and get it printed on nice paper.

If I get an interview, I have a copies of my CV, a letter of recommendation and academic transcript.

Is a cover letter necessary. I have some that I sent out to the schools that I am interested in via the search email already. Should I just print these and give them to the schools I have already emailed? Should I do this when requesting an interview or would it be unlikely to be read?

Also, could someone point me to a thread on the types of interview questions international schools ask? I tried using the search engine but apparently it is too common a question to search haha. I'm familiar with what an Australian school would ask but I imagine international schools have additional questions.
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

@damok

The teaching philosophy and references are too much for a flyer. You want it visual, as far as text you want a heading/title, 2-4 bullet points of your strengths and your contact information (at the fair, mobile or room voice number, room number, and email), print it in color (and on slick paper if you can). I advise an Ichiro you can fit in your pocket, such as a business card Ichiro, pamphlet, coupon, etc. You always have something with you to market yourself and you can hand them out anywhere, whether its in the hotel bar, at the social, in the elevator (candidates get interviews in elevators), at a presentation, passing in the hallway, the breakfast buffet, or even out at night for a "massage".
Keep your Ichiros and resumes with you, start with the Ichiro and if they are interested and ask for one move to the resume. Keep the transcripts and references in your room, you only need them if there is an offer, and then only if a hard copy is requested. Otherwise you can if you wish email them prior to the interview, but recruiters and leadership have all that information on your profile page.

@Walter has a valid point. Ichiros can be hit and miss. There are different recruiters, and there are different Ichiros. Some would appreciate an Ichiro that they get in their box/under the door (such as a magazine, etc) but want a resume at signup (and no ones going to read a magazine, even the cover at signup). For signup a flyer would be more appropriate but due to its size isnt convenient to carry with you at all times. There are also those recruiters that will not appreciate any type of Ichiro, you have to stand in line and size the recruiter up. In general Ichiros are well received, and are very effective.

No, cover letters are not necessary or even advised, time is short and its just a piece of paper a recruiter has to flip past to get to your resume. If your resume is 2 pages print it back to back instead of one sided and stapled. All; those resumes go into a pile and its very common for pages to get separated. Cover letters are for email applications, and even then they dodnt get read until the short, short list and interviews.

When its your turn at sign up, smile walk up to the recruiter, hand them your Ichiro (resume) and extend your hand for the handshake (they will likely already be reading) and introduce yourself, and compliment something about their IS (you create a quick cheat sheet for ISs you are interested in), then move into your pitch, cite your strongest point for the vacancy your applying for....

Really? There are many posts on interview questions. If you dont find them you may with to consider starting a new topic with the title "Fair Interview Questions?" or something similar.
jennifermd25
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Re: Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA

Post by jennifermd25 »

Hello! I have not yet signed up with SA but hope to attend the SF fair in February. I would mainly be looking for a learning support teacher position which I know is somewhat new at many IB schools. I have applied directly to several schools in the EU for this position but have no idea if my info will be lost in the shuffle or if SA fair is the only way to go. I have 15 years of experience teaching in inclusion programs in the US in several large diverse cities and a Master's degree in Education. I think I am an excellent candidate but I will admit I will be choosy about where I live for my teaching career. I'm spoiled from living in CA and don't want to put myself in a miserable situation ;) I am open to Asia, Central/S America, and Europe. I've traveled to all of these places multiple times so familiar with the potential culture shocks, etc.

I guess my main question is does anyone here have experience with learning support programs at any IS schools or have advice on the best packages for schools that may offer these programs. Any advice on whether SA fair is totally worth it for learning support or not is also helpful. It sounds like everyone thinks that Search is the end-all be-all for finding international positions but just trying to get some perspective from those who may work in this field. Thanks!
tdaley26
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Re: Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA

Post by tdaley26 »

Jen.

My school in Shanghai is looking for a learning support teacher.
wrldtrvlr123
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Location: Japan

Re: Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

jennifermd25 wrote:
> Hello! I have not yet signed up with SA but hope to attend the SF fair in
> February. I would mainly be looking for a learning support teacher
> position which I know is somewhat new at many IB schools. I have applied
> directly to several schools in the EU for this position but have no idea if
> my info will be lost in the shuffle or if SA fair is the only way to go. I
> have 15 years of experience teaching in inclusion programs in the US in
> several large diverse cities and a Master's degree in Education. I think I
> am an excellent candidate but I will admit I will be choosy about where I
> live for my teaching career. I'm spoiled from living in CA and don't want
> to put myself in a miserable situation ;) I am open to Asia, Central/S
> America, and Europe. I've traveled to all of these places multiple times
> so familiar with the potential culture shocks, etc.
>
> I guess my main question is does anyone here have experience with learning
> support programs at any IS schools or have advice on the best packages for
> schools that may offer these programs. Any advice on whether SA fair is
> totally worth it for learning support or not is also helpful. It sounds
> like everyone thinks that Search is the end-all be-all for finding
> international positions but just trying to get some perspective from those
> who may work in this field. Thanks!
------------------------------------------
The vast majority of international schools have learning support teachers these days. In lower tier schools this may only be one or two positions (while in higher tier schools there would often be larger departments with staffing at every grade level) but the job is generally very similar to what you are probably accustomed to (e.g. combination of resource room, inclusion, small group, informal assessment, IEP case management or equivalent).

Search fairs can be valuable places to find jobs although the SF fair is not generally one of their more premier/high profile events (as opposed to Cambridge, Bangkok, London). It is also entirely possible to find jobs (especially in SPED/LS) on your own with good to great schools. I would sign up with Search ASAP even if you do not attend a fair as most of the schools you would want to work at are member schools and it is convenient to have your references archived in one location rather than having them contacted by multiple schools etc. SA also has a generally very useful database that will answer most of your questions about school packages, etc.

I have taught in learning support positions in the states, several different countries and now with DoDDS. I have found jobs both through Search and on my own. If you are open to Hong Kong you may also want to check out ESF school in HK. They run 20+ schools, have their own recruitment system (although they are also Search members) and often do interviews via Skype. Their hiring season should be gearing up right now.

As for location/package much of it is a trade off like everything in life. In general, the nicer the location, the less schools will provide/pay etc. So, more money in Asia, less in Europe. Also generally less in South America. But you may be OK with the trade off. Much to consider and a Search membership will give you much food for thought. You may also want to consider DoDDS which would get you into Asia and Europe on an excellent package but is much harder to get into.

Feel free to ask any questions as they come to you.
reisgio
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Re: Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA

Post by reisgio »

Getting back to the original subject, when I got contacted by a school before a fair it was a school I had no interest in. I usually did give them the courtesy of meeting with them pre-fair if I had the time, but if it was a ME school I would say that I had no interest and not even waste my time. If someone is rushing at you, even if you are amazing, you probably should figure he or she is desperate to land you before you see your other options. My early suiters hailed from Africa, China (turned down), Dubai (turned down), UAE (turned down), and Korea if I recall completely. I enjoyed the pre-fair interviews with the Africa and Korea recruiters, and they got me in the zone for the my serious interviews at the fair with my target schools - interviews I completely aced and which ultimately turned into three job offers - none of which I took, but that is another story...

Also, PsyGuy, thanks so much for mentioning me in the same sentence as a past valuable contributor to the forum. I am honored, and of course, for those enterprising forum searchers, you will find that I created my own yin to Ichiro's yang with an eponymous end-of-fair note to the wayward recruiter who didn't have his priorities straight because, recruiters, don't play with me if you don't want to get played with!
PsyGuy
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Reply

Post by PsyGuy »

In regard to thank you notes, either buy an inexpensive pack of blank thank you notes (a few dollars for 10-12), write a personalized thank you message, and drop one in a recruiters box at the conclusion of the interview.

@reisgio

No thanks or appreciation needed, Ichiros are a thing and the Reisgio effect is a phenomenon, its appropriate to cite such contributors and creators in the IE field.

@jennifermd25

WT123 have disagreed for a long time on the prevalence of LS/SEN. SEN/LS is growing, but there are still a vast majority of lower tier ISs that dont provide or offer SEN/LS programs.
LS isnt new in IB, it now has a new term "learning diversity". LS is expensive for a small number of students. Even the top tier elite ISs such as SAS (which has one of the best LS programs) they do not provide services to the degree as required by US law. These are private/independent ISs they have no obligation to offer any particular services.
You are going to find the most developed LS programs at upper tier ISs, since many third tier ISs dont such services, or you wouldnt recognize them as LS programs in your experience. However, these elite tier and first tier ISs are the ones everyone wants to work at. You can easily create a bookmark list of the upper tier ISs in a region and check them every week or couple of days quickly.

There are two premium recruiting services SA (Search Associates) and ISS (International School Services). You may be a better candidate for ISS than SA. You have a wide range of location (Europe, Asia, South America is pretty much everywhere). I will assume that based on your past applications, you are really only interested in WE (Western Europe)?
In general you benefit from a premium agency (such as SA) if you have a broad job search. It will save you a lot of convenience, but you will still need to do additional research to conduct an exhaustive search. If however you have a very narrow, restricted or small position search you can do the research on your own without a premium agency. One of the benefits of a premium agency is you have all your references in one place, so that your references are not constantly writing referrals.
The school profile pages are completely created by the ISs themselves, and many of them have very little utility, even if they arent outdated.
Based on my assumptions if you cant get an invite to the BKK fair which is essentially now, you arent likely to be happy with the 2 other super fairs (maybe LON).
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Reply

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

PsyGuy wrote:
> @jennifermd25
>
> WT123 have disagreed for a long time on the prevalence of LS/SEN. SEN/LS is
> growing, but there are still a vast majority of lower tier ISs that dont
> provide or offer SEN/LS programs.
> LS isnt new in IB, it now has a new term "learning diversity". LS
> is expensive for a small number of students. Even the top tier elite ISs
> such as SAS (which has one of the best LS programs) they do not provide
> services to the degree as required by US law. These are private/independent
> ISs they have no obligation to offer any particular services.
> You are going to find the most developed LS programs at upper tier ISs,
> since many third tier ISs dont such services, or you wouldnt recognize them
> as LS programs in your experience. However, these elite tier and first tier
> ISs are the ones everyone wants to work at. You can easily create a
> bookmark list of the upper tier ISs in a region and check them every week
> or couple of days quickly.
--------------------------------------
Yes and I don't have the energy to go through it again. If anyone is interested they can do a search for "SPED" and read more than they probably want to know about the subject within int'l school settings. For anyone wondering about the opportunities for LS/SPED teachers don't take my word for it (or anyone else's). Look up any school you might think about working at (elite to 3rd tier) and check into their website etc. The odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the school having some LS staff (even if it's only one or two) which means at some point in the future they will need LS staff.

The widespread prevalence of LS staff in int'l schools (and thus opportunities for LS teachers) is a fact. Everything else is just quibbling about labels, levels of service, actual quality/comprehensiveness of LS programs.
Walter
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Re: Schools contacting you to set up interviews before a SA

Post by Walter »

Quite right too. Lots of interest in Learning Support - at all levels - in international schools. Look up "Next Frontier - Inclusion", which is being driven by Bill and Ochan Powell. They have conferences around the world for international school LS teachers, and they are sell outs. This is a really good field to get into as a teacher!
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