The Melbourne Search Associates fair is coming up soon and I have received invitations for interviews/an informal talk from a number of different schools. One school wants to meet me prior to the interview sessions officially beginning (is this a good sign)?
This will be my first foray into International Teaching. I have three years full time experience teaching in Australian schools. I also have a Masters Degree. Whilst I still see myself as lacking in experience, I believe that I am a good teacher. I think I am ready to take the plunge into International Teaching. I'm a 30 year old man who is single.
So now comes an exciting dilemma - which school/country to choose. Obviously this will be determined by who offers me a job but given that you often don't have much time to make a decision, I'd like to go into the interviews with a good idea about these countries.
You guys can read the following if you want or more in-depth explanation of the schools/areas I am in. Otherwise, for those who have lived in one or more of these countries, which would you choose? What were the positives and negatives of these countries. Did you find it difficult to become friends with the locals and/or expats. What is the cost of living like and did you manage to save money?
Bangkok: I have been to Bangkok several times and have some friends there. I can speak enough Thai to get around (I did some volunteer work teaching English to orphans for a month). I did my interview a month or so ago and they were very impressed and said they wanted me to work for them but will be making the final decision and sending out contracts at the end of Jan. The classes I will be teaching include AP Psychology, which is by far my favourite subject. The downsides of the school are it is located quite a bit outside of Bangkok;'s city center so public transport may be quite poor. The salary is 80,000baht a month ($2,230 USD) with no benefits (no housing, moving costs, plane tickets or moving costs). The school follows the US curriculum and there are no IB classes. The reviews on ISR for the school are poor but there has not been a review submitted for 8 years and they had a new director since then.
Japan: I have never been to Japan before but studying Japanese for a few years in school (I hardly remember any of it). The school is located in Numazu, a coastal town of 200,000 people on the beach and close to Mt Fuji. I would be teaching MYP English. The school is a bi-lingual Japanese school. The salary seems decent, around $45,000USD. A furnished apartment is provided with $500 rental allowance. Other benefits include medical insurance, moving in allowance and a good raise each year and a contract renewal bonus. The downsides: I know no one in Japan and the pool of foreign staff is small. The city is a bit smaller than what I would prefer. The workload is supposed to be quite high and the holidays are short. The ISR reviews for the school were pretty positive.
Taiwan: I just got offered an interview today. I know nothing about Taiwan and know no one there. I cannot speak any of the local language I would be teaching IB Humanities. It is a Taiwanese school with an immersion program. The salary is $40,000+ USD, with housing allowance, airfare, moving allowance and health insurance. The downsides seem to be the city the school is in suffers from heavy pollution and the school has a high workload and long hours. Further, Humanities is my least favourite subject. The school got very good reviews on ISR.
Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
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alwaysadjusting
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:54 pm
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
@damok I am also attending Melbourne, and have been offered an early interview at the fair. Good sign, I'd say - though of course it's only the offer and contract that really count in the end.
Reading through your list, I'd personally go for Thailand - teaching your favourite subject, gaining IB DP experience, and a place you are already familiar with. Having said that, given you are still early career (3 years teaching) perhaps anything to get you going on your longer term IT career will be good. Depends on your final offers, doesn't it.
All the best, and perhaps will see you in Melbourne.
Reading through your list, I'd personally go for Thailand - teaching your favourite subject, gaining IB DP experience, and a place you are already familiar with. Having said that, given you are still early career (3 years teaching) perhaps anything to get you going on your longer term IT career will be good. Depends on your final offers, doesn't it.
All the best, and perhaps will see you in Melbourne.
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
Hmmm - my biggest problem is deciding how much do I say.
From your descriptions, it seems as though the Taiwan school is NAME. It's not a bad city to live in and the pollution is not that bad. The main annoyance is the school is on the outskirts of the city which reduces the pollutions but increases the travel time. The school is manageable but make sure your in the international program. It's main weakness is the length of the school year, but actual teaching hours are similar to other international schools. There are of course better but also MUCH worse schools to start international teaching with. My only suggestion is to make sure you are working with the international program and not the bilingual.
The Japan school I'm guessing is NAME which is in a rural area of Japan (Shizuoka Prefecture). It's a pretty place with heaps of fantastic places to visit (I love Ito on the Izu Peninsula!). However, do note that this is a Japanese School who uses the MYP and DP. That means that your admin will mainly be Japanese. The school year (which starts in April) will also be longer than the school in Taiwan (which also has a longer school year than Australia). Also check up on setting up costs in Japan which can be prohibitive. Also - there is a Japanese law where you don't pay a certain tax in you pay on your previous years wage. As such, you normally don't pay the tax in the first year but then have to pay it when you leave after 2 years. It works out to be roughly 1 months wage. Living in Japan can be fantastic - but it also has some downsides. Pollution will be pretty low in Numazu but still higher than Australia.
For the school in BKK - I'm not sure which one but I do know that it's not visiting the Melbourne Search Fair (or it's name is not included yet). There are many good schools in BKK and many mediocre and bad schools. Some of the better schools include Patana, ISB, NIST, Ruamrardee and St Stephens?? I can't comment on the actual school as there are so many of them but the wage seems the be average for BKK.
If I were you, I'd probably interview with these schools before the fair but try and hold off a formal decision until you have tasted the water at the fair. However - if you feel as though you really like the school and admin then have a good think about it. Good luck and remember that not everybody (especially Humanities/English teachers) get schools contacting them before the fairs....
From your descriptions, it seems as though the Taiwan school is NAME. It's not a bad city to live in and the pollution is not that bad. The main annoyance is the school is on the outskirts of the city which reduces the pollutions but increases the travel time. The school is manageable but make sure your in the international program. It's main weakness is the length of the school year, but actual teaching hours are similar to other international schools. There are of course better but also MUCH worse schools to start international teaching with. My only suggestion is to make sure you are working with the international program and not the bilingual.
The Japan school I'm guessing is NAME which is in a rural area of Japan (Shizuoka Prefecture). It's a pretty place with heaps of fantastic places to visit (I love Ito on the Izu Peninsula!). However, do note that this is a Japanese School who uses the MYP and DP. That means that your admin will mainly be Japanese. The school year (which starts in April) will also be longer than the school in Taiwan (which also has a longer school year than Australia). Also check up on setting up costs in Japan which can be prohibitive. Also - there is a Japanese law where you don't pay a certain tax in you pay on your previous years wage. As such, you normally don't pay the tax in the first year but then have to pay it when you leave after 2 years. It works out to be roughly 1 months wage. Living in Japan can be fantastic - but it also has some downsides. Pollution will be pretty low in Numazu but still higher than Australia.
For the school in BKK - I'm not sure which one but I do know that it's not visiting the Melbourne Search Fair (or it's name is not included yet). There are many good schools in BKK and many mediocre and bad schools. Some of the better schools include Patana, ISB, NIST, Ruamrardee and St Stephens?? I can't comment on the actual school as there are so many of them but the wage seems the be average for BKK.
If I were you, I'd probably interview with these schools before the fair but try and hold off a formal decision until you have tasted the water at the fair. However - if you feel as though you really like the school and admin then have a good think about it. Good luck and remember that not everybody (especially Humanities/English teachers) get schools contacting them before the fairs....
Last edited by sciteach on Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
Thanks for the reply. So much great information!
I admire your detective skills. You were on the money! I wanted to keep the school names out of it just so not to jinx it haha.
To be honest, I need to do a lot more research on Taiwan. I really know very little about it. The school does sound good and the package sounds great too. I'll take your advice on the International program. I'll do more research on it and remember to specifically ask about that.
You mentioned some downsides to Japan. Could you elaborate on them? I've spoken to a number of people about Japan and everyone seems to think it is the country to go for. Most of these people have just been as tourists though so there may be drawbacks be they social/economic etc. that they are completely unaware of.
In regards to start up costs. According to the school's information booklet the apartments are furnished and I believe they cover things like bond and those sort of expenses. The school recommended about $1200-$1500 USD to get set up before being paid. Fortunately, I have some savings so should be able to cover that. In regards to the tax system. Does that mean that I will not be taxed at all on my income for the first year or is this just a less significant tax I don't have to pay for the first year?
In regards to the school in Bangkok. No they won't be at the SA fair. My connections helped landing that one. If 80,000 bht is average for Bangkok then that is fine for me. I live a pretty humble existence here and don't really plan on changing how live too much overseas.
Thanks so much for the words of encouragement. It does make me feel confident about landing something. I think I also need to buy my confidential referees a nice bottle of wine each.
I admire your detective skills. You were on the money! I wanted to keep the school names out of it just so not to jinx it haha.
To be honest, I need to do a lot more research on Taiwan. I really know very little about it. The school does sound good and the package sounds great too. I'll take your advice on the International program. I'll do more research on it and remember to specifically ask about that.
You mentioned some downsides to Japan. Could you elaborate on them? I've spoken to a number of people about Japan and everyone seems to think it is the country to go for. Most of these people have just been as tourists though so there may be drawbacks be they social/economic etc. that they are completely unaware of.
In regards to start up costs. According to the school's information booklet the apartments are furnished and I believe they cover things like bond and those sort of expenses. The school recommended about $1200-$1500 USD to get set up before being paid. Fortunately, I have some savings so should be able to cover that. In regards to the tax system. Does that mean that I will not be taxed at all on my income for the first year or is this just a less significant tax I don't have to pay for the first year?
In regards to the school in Bangkok. No they won't be at the SA fair. My connections helped landing that one. If 80,000 bht is average for Bangkok then that is fine for me. I live a pretty humble existence here and don't really plan on changing how live too much overseas.
Thanks so much for the words of encouragement. It does make me feel confident about landing something. I think I also need to buy my confidential referees a nice bottle of wine each.
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
Also. how accurate are the Search Associates 'Expected Savings Potential? Some of those seem too good to be true.
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
I've changed the school names for you. Living in Japan is good - I was more referring to living in a rural Japanese area which has positives and negatives. For examples, doing everything in Japanese will be quite challenging compared to living in Tokyo or Osaka. Your possible city in Taiwan will be easier to live in than Numazu, but Tokyo would be much more easier than Taiwan (apart from Taipei).
Something to strongly consider is where the students will end up after their education. For example, the school in Taiwan has some international students and all classes are completed in English (apart from Chinese/Language B). For the Japanese school, this will be potentially different. So to put it simply - the school in Taiwan could be more compared to an international school than the Japanese school (specifically the international section)
For both schools, their main admin are both home country - but your first port of call in Taiwan will be western. Let's just say this is a big thing which others may be able to explain further.
Also remember that potential savings are set by the school on SA - which sometimes tell us nothing about real savings. I've seen amounts which are both off for both sides (too much and too little compared to real savings).
For Japan, you pay your normal tax. However, there is some tax which equates to something like 8%. You don't pay it in the first year as it's linked to your previous years earnings. As such, you pay more tax in the second year and beyond. When you leave Japan, you have to pay the tax for your first year. This equates to roughly 1 months wage
It's a shame there is no longer a PM feature - as I have a lot more to say but I don't think it's appropriate to say it on the forum.
If your apartment is fully furnished, this will make a big difference. In Tokyo, I've seen a need for 3 months rent (2 months deposit) needed to be paid in advance and everything in the apartment (from light fittings, hot plates, air con, fridge, curtains - aka everything) was needed. If you wanted to set everything up from the start, you could be looking at something like 800,000 Yen in Tokyo
Something to strongly consider is where the students will end up after their education. For example, the school in Taiwan has some international students and all classes are completed in English (apart from Chinese/Language B). For the Japanese school, this will be potentially different. So to put it simply - the school in Taiwan could be more compared to an international school than the Japanese school (specifically the international section)
For both schools, their main admin are both home country - but your first port of call in Taiwan will be western. Let's just say this is a big thing which others may be able to explain further.
Also remember that potential savings are set by the school on SA - which sometimes tell us nothing about real savings. I've seen amounts which are both off for both sides (too much and too little compared to real savings).
For Japan, you pay your normal tax. However, there is some tax which equates to something like 8%. You don't pay it in the first year as it's linked to your previous years earnings. As such, you pay more tax in the second year and beyond. When you leave Japan, you have to pay the tax for your first year. This equates to roughly 1 months wage
It's a shame there is no longer a PM feature - as I have a lot more to say but I don't think it's appropriate to say it on the forum.
If your apartment is fully furnished, this will make a big difference. In Tokyo, I've seen a need for 3 months rent (2 months deposit) needed to be paid in advance and everything in the apartment (from light fittings, hot plates, air con, fridge, curtains - aka everything) was needed. If you wanted to set everything up from the start, you could be looking at something like 800,000 Yen in Tokyo
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
Congrats on getting some interest/offers. Here is my two cents FWIW.
Thailand: Never lived there. Love BKK to visit. 80K Baht with zero benefits seems lower than what I have heard bandied about as a good (or even average) salary for BKK. Is it at least after taxes? I remember hearing that a decent apt. will run you 10K baht so it seems pretty low unless you are just rip-roaring to get out there and start your int'l journey. Maybe someone with first hand experience will give you a better idea of what life would be like on that salary (type of apt./neighborhood, how many street food meals, any chance of travel savings).
Japan: Love it. Live there now within reasonable distance of Tokyo. Can't say enough good things about it. Pollution is a non-factor. Language near Tokyo not a major hindrance but would be out in the country where you would be. If you took Japanese in the past and were semi-forced to learn fast I am assuming it would come back to you. I have heard mixed things about the school with the main drawback that it is very Japanese and you will feel isolated and very much the outsider. Still very much worth consideration to spend time here. Tax is lower the first year with the higher rate kicking in the 2nd year (and will vary by your location so check with the school). Sounds as though you would be doing fairly well financially.
Taiwan: Have heard generally good things and that language should not be a major problem as English is much more prevalent than Japan and mainland China. Not much useful information to add.
To sum up, none of the choices sound horrible but none of them sound too good to pass up either. Japan would be the winner for me country wise but being away from Tokyo, Kyoto, Kobe etc knocks it back a bit. I would take BKK over Taiwan just from what I have heard and you having friends, a bit of language etc might mean that is the best place for you to start and work your way up to a better school, package etc.
As for SA, the reliability of the savings potential can vary quite a bit. Best bet is to compare a few schools in the same country and see if they make sense (if possible).
All in all, exciting times ahead for you. Good luck!
Thailand: Never lived there. Love BKK to visit. 80K Baht with zero benefits seems lower than what I have heard bandied about as a good (or even average) salary for BKK. Is it at least after taxes? I remember hearing that a decent apt. will run you 10K baht so it seems pretty low unless you are just rip-roaring to get out there and start your int'l journey. Maybe someone with first hand experience will give you a better idea of what life would be like on that salary (type of apt./neighborhood, how many street food meals, any chance of travel savings).
Japan: Love it. Live there now within reasonable distance of Tokyo. Can't say enough good things about it. Pollution is a non-factor. Language near Tokyo not a major hindrance but would be out in the country where you would be. If you took Japanese in the past and were semi-forced to learn fast I am assuming it would come back to you. I have heard mixed things about the school with the main drawback that it is very Japanese and you will feel isolated and very much the outsider. Still very much worth consideration to spend time here. Tax is lower the first year with the higher rate kicking in the 2nd year (and will vary by your location so check with the school). Sounds as though you would be doing fairly well financially.
Taiwan: Have heard generally good things and that language should not be a major problem as English is much more prevalent than Japan and mainland China. Not much useful information to add.
To sum up, none of the choices sound horrible but none of them sound too good to pass up either. Japan would be the winner for me country wise but being away from Tokyo, Kyoto, Kobe etc knocks it back a bit. I would take BKK over Taiwan just from what I have heard and you having friends, a bit of language etc might mean that is the best place for you to start and work your way up to a better school, package etc.
As for SA, the reliability of the savings potential can vary quite a bit. Best bet is to compare a few schools in the same country and see if they make sense (if possible).
All in all, exciting times ahead for you. Good luck!
Response
Generally agree with the previous contributors. The BKK IS is a LH offer. Unless you are really interested in getting back to Thailand at any cost there are better. JP would be my choice but as the previous contributors indicated it will be much more secluded and remote than living in Tokyo, etc.
What is important to you? You need to make a list of priorities and their ratings so that YOU can do an advantages/disadvantages assessment. If social security and having a strong stable network of friends is important to you and curriculum is not than considering curriculum and professional growth isnt really relevant. If air quality is a must have for you, and leadership nationality isnt then who you work for doesnt really matter.
The school profile pages are completed by the IS themselves, you cant put much value or utility in them, at best they are gross ranges. Some ISs seem to pick numbers out of the air.
In general international academies are better than bilingual academies. Of which the difference can be trivial or significant.
Japan can get expensive, if you have included housing a lot of issues wont be a problem, but everyone wants to work in JP so it can be very competitive with a lot of delay in advancement opportunities. The tax issue is as has been described. The other issue is your NHI (National health insurance), since its based off your last years income its very low your first year and then can get very expensive. Everyone likes JP because they think its like a Manga or Anime.
BT80K is third tier in Thailand, the bottom of the third tier is around BT60K and the top at BT90K. There are ETs getting by on less than half that but its not a strong compensation package especially since its a LH package.
I would have a lot more to write but we need to understand more about you and what your needs, wants and deal breakers are. If this was a machine decision the TW vacancy is going to do the best for your resume. The JP vacancy will get you into Japan (and for many ITs thats the hardest part), the BKK position will be the most fun and easiest assimilation (given your past experiences). They are all third tier ISs, the work experience isnt going to differ significantly.
What is important to you? You need to make a list of priorities and their ratings so that YOU can do an advantages/disadvantages assessment. If social security and having a strong stable network of friends is important to you and curriculum is not than considering curriculum and professional growth isnt really relevant. If air quality is a must have for you, and leadership nationality isnt then who you work for doesnt really matter.
The school profile pages are completed by the IS themselves, you cant put much value or utility in them, at best they are gross ranges. Some ISs seem to pick numbers out of the air.
In general international academies are better than bilingual academies. Of which the difference can be trivial or significant.
Japan can get expensive, if you have included housing a lot of issues wont be a problem, but everyone wants to work in JP so it can be very competitive with a lot of delay in advancement opportunities. The tax issue is as has been described. The other issue is your NHI (National health insurance), since its based off your last years income its very low your first year and then can get very expensive. Everyone likes JP because they think its like a Manga or Anime.
BT80K is third tier in Thailand, the bottom of the third tier is around BT60K and the top at BT90K. There are ETs getting by on less than half that but its not a strong compensation package especially since its a LH package.
I would have a lot more to write but we need to understand more about you and what your needs, wants and deal breakers are. If this was a machine decision the TW vacancy is going to do the best for your resume. The JP vacancy will get you into Japan (and for many ITs thats the hardest part), the BKK position will be the most fun and easiest assimilation (given your past experiences). They are all third tier ISs, the work experience isnt going to differ significantly.
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
Sciteach: Yes it is a pity there is no PM feature. You seem to know a lot about the schools and countries in question. I just created an email address (my existing ones have my full name in them). If you want you can send me an email with any other information you would like to share. As choosing the right school/country is a massive life decision I want to be well informed. I'd be really happy with any advice/information you can give. Thanks so much for what you have already written.
Here is my email address:
inteacher1985@gmail.com
Maybe make a post on this forum letting me know if you sent an email, as I really won't be using this email address for anything other than communicating with you.
Thank you to everyone else who replied. You guys are fantastic!
PsyGuy:
To answer your questions about my priorities.
Teaching in a school with a fair administration and a positive work environment (ie. no bullying of staff by other staff) - very high.
Living in a location that has a variety of things to do: very high.
Money/benefits. medium (I don't need a lot of luxuries but enough money to save for holidays and have some savings).
Being able to make friends/have existing friends: high.
Prestige of the school: low
Curriculum: medium.
Working in a well resourced school with adequate materials, access to internet and my own computer, good communication between staff, a - high.
Reasonable life work/balance - high. I'm not lazy and am happy to work hard but I don't want to spend my whole time abroad working until midnight and having no time to relax and explore the country/region.
I hope this helps.
Here is my email address:
inteacher1985@gmail.com
Maybe make a post on this forum letting me know if you sent an email, as I really won't be using this email address for anything other than communicating with you.
Thank you to everyone else who replied. You guys are fantastic!
PsyGuy:
To answer your questions about my priorities.
Teaching in a school with a fair administration and a positive work environment (ie. no bullying of staff by other staff) - very high.
Living in a location that has a variety of things to do: very high.
Money/benefits. medium (I don't need a lot of luxuries but enough money to save for holidays and have some savings).
Being able to make friends/have existing friends: high.
Prestige of the school: low
Curriculum: medium.
Working in a well resourced school with adequate materials, access to internet and my own computer, good communication between staff, a - high.
Reasonable life work/balance - high. I'm not lazy and am happy to work hard but I don't want to spend my whole time abroad working until midnight and having no time to relax and explore the country/region.
I hope this helps.
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
Alwaysadjusting:
Best of luck to you too at the Melbourne Fair. Do you have your heart set on anywhere in particular?
If you are going to the drinks on Sunday, I might see you there!
Best of luck to you too at the Melbourne Fair. Do you have your heart set on anywhere in particular?
If you are going to the drinks on Sunday, I might see you there!
Reply
@damok
You want to go to the fair social. It is an opportunity to create an informal interview with a recruiter/leadership if you didnt get an interview. Its networking, and building name recognition.
Its great you know what your priorities are. Now take a spreadsheet or sheet of paper and title across the top 3 columns "Wants", "Needs", and "Deal Breakers". Rate your Wants on a scale of 1-10, rate your needs on a scale of -1 too -5 (-1 is a low priority need, -5 a high priority need), lastly if you have an absolute deal breaker (IE your asthmatic and cant tolerate high levels of pollution) put that in the deal breakers column. Add up the rating (subtracting the negative values in the needs column). Now you have a metric to compare ISs and their offers against (divide the ISs score my your rating score to get a percentile of how close an IS is to your rating score). In addition is serves as a basis for questions to ask during an interview.
In review of your IS candidates and your priorities:
1) Admin: The TW IS is going to have the fairest administration. The JP and BK ISs are going to have local administration and many westerners even with competent leadership have a different understanding of fairness than many host national leadership. The JP IS is likely to have the least personality conflict among staff. Its a small expat community with a large percentage of JP staff, and its not indicative of JP culture for conflict, you would very likely not know if a JP person considered you an enemy. The BK IS is likely going to have the most. The TW IS is going to be average for a smaller more provincial region.
2) Entertainment Options: The BK IS has the greatest access by a lot, the region in JP is very provincial, once the nature and JP culture novelty wears off you will be creating things to do to keep yourself occupied, or getting out for more exciting locations in JP. The TW region is the worst.
3) Compensation: You will save the most in JP, there just isnt much to spend coin on once you get past necessities. BK can be a non-stop partty if you want it to be, lots of distractions and temptations. The TW IS is only a threat to saving when it comes to shopping.
4) Social Opportunities: BK hands down you know people and you have access to BK. JP and TW will have a small local expat population where you quickly will know everyone and everyone will know you. You will just be rotating around the same social circle.
5) Prestige: They are all third tier ISs, none of them are going to standout on your resume.
6) Curriculum: The BK IS gives you School Leaving level experience, which is the most marketable of the three, and you love the subject. MYP English and Humanities would be a close second. At MYP Humanities is easier to teach, but Literature is easier to prep. Its the cultural nature of those populations. You can direct teach (lecture) humanities, whereas literature tends to be more group discussion, which Asian cultures tend to be very introverted in doing (they dont want to lose face). I would choose humanities as you can assess more with exams, whereas literature will have more essays and writing which for non-native English students will be taxing and draining.
7) Resources: The BK IS will be the worse, very unlikely you will be able to do much as far as experimental psychology, the IS probably watches its coin very closely, and your going to get a lot of "No" to requests. You will likely get whats there for the JP and the TW IS but aside from book sets for Literature and Maps for Humanities you dont have high resource requirements. The network in JP will work very well assuming your near the wireless router, otherwise the national network in JP is very reliable and stable, you can find fiber at 150/MBPS (but its tends to be pricy). In TW the national network is also reliable and stable and they have excess bandwidth, so the cost is very low. BK network access is works when it works, and is slow when its slow. A lot of users access the internet from mobile so their network can crawl.
8) Communication: The TW IS will have the best communication but none of these ISs are going to be easy, there will just be misunderstandings and expectations and other break downs in communication, these are third tier ISs.
9) Work/Life Balance: BK you can have whatever life experience you want in BK. JP will have the largest work load and expectations. TW will have an average balance, but not much to do in your non-work time, as such if you dont keep yourself engaged your just going to see work as your whole life.
You want to go to the fair social. It is an opportunity to create an informal interview with a recruiter/leadership if you didnt get an interview. Its networking, and building name recognition.
Its great you know what your priorities are. Now take a spreadsheet or sheet of paper and title across the top 3 columns "Wants", "Needs", and "Deal Breakers". Rate your Wants on a scale of 1-10, rate your needs on a scale of -1 too -5 (-1 is a low priority need, -5 a high priority need), lastly if you have an absolute deal breaker (IE your asthmatic and cant tolerate high levels of pollution) put that in the deal breakers column. Add up the rating (subtracting the negative values in the needs column). Now you have a metric to compare ISs and their offers against (divide the ISs score my your rating score to get a percentile of how close an IS is to your rating score). In addition is serves as a basis for questions to ask during an interview.
In review of your IS candidates and your priorities:
1) Admin: The TW IS is going to have the fairest administration. The JP and BK ISs are going to have local administration and many westerners even with competent leadership have a different understanding of fairness than many host national leadership. The JP IS is likely to have the least personality conflict among staff. Its a small expat community with a large percentage of JP staff, and its not indicative of JP culture for conflict, you would very likely not know if a JP person considered you an enemy. The BK IS is likely going to have the most. The TW IS is going to be average for a smaller more provincial region.
2) Entertainment Options: The BK IS has the greatest access by a lot, the region in JP is very provincial, once the nature and JP culture novelty wears off you will be creating things to do to keep yourself occupied, or getting out for more exciting locations in JP. The TW region is the worst.
3) Compensation: You will save the most in JP, there just isnt much to spend coin on once you get past necessities. BK can be a non-stop partty if you want it to be, lots of distractions and temptations. The TW IS is only a threat to saving when it comes to shopping.
4) Social Opportunities: BK hands down you know people and you have access to BK. JP and TW will have a small local expat population where you quickly will know everyone and everyone will know you. You will just be rotating around the same social circle.
5) Prestige: They are all third tier ISs, none of them are going to standout on your resume.
6) Curriculum: The BK IS gives you School Leaving level experience, which is the most marketable of the three, and you love the subject. MYP English and Humanities would be a close second. At MYP Humanities is easier to teach, but Literature is easier to prep. Its the cultural nature of those populations. You can direct teach (lecture) humanities, whereas literature tends to be more group discussion, which Asian cultures tend to be very introverted in doing (they dont want to lose face). I would choose humanities as you can assess more with exams, whereas literature will have more essays and writing which for non-native English students will be taxing and draining.
7) Resources: The BK IS will be the worse, very unlikely you will be able to do much as far as experimental psychology, the IS probably watches its coin very closely, and your going to get a lot of "No" to requests. You will likely get whats there for the JP and the TW IS but aside from book sets for Literature and Maps for Humanities you dont have high resource requirements. The network in JP will work very well assuming your near the wireless router, otherwise the national network in JP is very reliable and stable, you can find fiber at 150/MBPS (but its tends to be pricy). In TW the national network is also reliable and stable and they have excess bandwidth, so the cost is very low. BK network access is works when it works, and is slow when its slow. A lot of users access the internet from mobile so their network can crawl.
8) Communication: The TW IS will have the best communication but none of these ISs are going to be easy, there will just be misunderstandings and expectations and other break downs in communication, these are third tier ISs.
9) Work/Life Balance: BK you can have whatever life experience you want in BK. JP will have the largest work load and expectations. TW will have an average balance, but not much to do in your non-work time, as such if you dont keep yourself engaged your just going to see work as your whole life.
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
Thanks for your response, PsyGuy.
I'll be taking your advice in regards to the spreadsheet. There are pro's and con's to all of the above schools. To be honest, I still don't have a clear winner in my mind. Obviously, it will depend on who offers me a position and who doesn't. Bangkok is very enticing and although no formal offer (ie. a contract) has occurred they have strongly indicated that they want me to be part of their school. It is a pretty good situation that I find myself in.
Just to muddy the waters further, another school has expressed interest in an interview. This one is in Guangzhou, China. I originally was ambivalent towards China due to all of the recent media attention towards the air pollution (I'm not asthmatic fortunately).
The salary quoted on SA is really high $55,000-$57,000USD before tax. Plus airfare, $1250 pm housing allowance, $5000 furniture allowance (although it says the apartment is furnished) and a $1500 moving allowance. Out of all of the packages, this is the best. It is also a non-profit school and seems to have a pretty international student body. Further, I would be teaching IB Psychology which is the subject I most want to teach.
So the school seems great. What is Guangzhou like as a city?
I'll be taking your advice in regards to the spreadsheet. There are pro's and con's to all of the above schools. To be honest, I still don't have a clear winner in my mind. Obviously, it will depend on who offers me a position and who doesn't. Bangkok is very enticing and although no formal offer (ie. a contract) has occurred they have strongly indicated that they want me to be part of their school. It is a pretty good situation that I find myself in.
Just to muddy the waters further, another school has expressed interest in an interview. This one is in Guangzhou, China. I originally was ambivalent towards China due to all of the recent media attention towards the air pollution (I'm not asthmatic fortunately).
The salary quoted on SA is really high $55,000-$57,000USD before tax. Plus airfare, $1250 pm housing allowance, $5000 furniture allowance (although it says the apartment is furnished) and a $1500 moving allowance. Out of all of the packages, this is the best. It is also a non-profit school and seems to have a pretty international student body. Further, I would be teaching IB Psychology which is the subject I most want to teach.
So the school seems great. What is Guangzhou like as a city?
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
Very interesting. Depending on which school it is I think this new player would be your overall bet (providing that they make an offer of course). Guangzhou is one of the largest cities in China and would have basically anything you could want as far as western goods, amenities and comforts. It's also in the southern part of China so the weather is going to be fairly mild. There will be pollution but no where near as bad as compared to some of the northern cities like Beijing (where things get really bad in the winter and due to the location of the city and shape of the surrounding area). It's also going to have big city problems (traffic, congestion, crowds etc but then again so is BKK). Travel opportunities would also be pretty good (proximity to HK and Oceania). It's not going to be a non-stop . like BKK but the social opportunities with expats and locals would be more than sufficient and you would be reasonably well off financially and able to to save and live it up a bit.
As far as the package/school it definitely sounds like the best of the lot so far as a teaching environment and a CV builder. The only real drawback is that it is China and you would need to do your research and decide if you are comfortable with it for a few years. We did two years in Beijing and would have stayed a bit longer. It was a fun lifestyle and we saved some good money. The pollution was bad but still let you lead a relatively good/normal life.
As far as the package/school it definitely sounds like the best of the lot so far as a teaching environment and a CV builder. The only real drawback is that it is China and you would need to do your research and decide if you are comfortable with it for a few years. We did two years in Beijing and would have stayed a bit longer. It was a fun lifestyle and we saved some good money. The pollution was bad but still let you lead a relatively good/normal life.
Reply
@damok
Agree with @WT123, you can find all the amenities and imports you are lucky to need in GZ. It has a couple of social hotspots and expat locations for a single guy. Its also close enough to HK that you can be there in a couple of hours by car, it is also close to Shenzhen. The environment issues you find in Beijing arent bad and the weather is indeed mild. There is a little enclave around the consulate and along the river that offers a little America. Metro and transportation is okay. The expat types are mostly computer guys with multi-nationals, and the locals have this mentality that they are stuck between Shanghai and Hong Kong, they arent the friendliest, but they are by no means hostile. Probably the biggest issue is that once the novelty wears off, GZ is grind. You build a routine and its the same thing in a cycle. Wake up, work, go out to eat (its cheaper and easier to eat out than eat in), have a pint (watch some football/soccer), go home. On the weekends you do some shopping, and go to one of the 2 club areas or head to HK, then repeat. There isnt a lot to otherwise see or do as far as tourist type activities in GZ.
$1250 will provide you a very, very nice flat/apartment, easily 2LDK, leather living room set, flat screen, all the amenities. The furniture allowance is just a shipping allowance, you can ship whatever you want it need not be furniture (but you will be waiting half a year for it, and then will have to arrange delivery or have someone from your IS with you to pick it up).
Agree with @WT123, you can find all the amenities and imports you are lucky to need in GZ. It has a couple of social hotspots and expat locations for a single guy. Its also close enough to HK that you can be there in a couple of hours by car, it is also close to Shenzhen. The environment issues you find in Beijing arent bad and the weather is indeed mild. There is a little enclave around the consulate and along the river that offers a little America. Metro and transportation is okay. The expat types are mostly computer guys with multi-nationals, and the locals have this mentality that they are stuck between Shanghai and Hong Kong, they arent the friendliest, but they are by no means hostile. Probably the biggest issue is that once the novelty wears off, GZ is grind. You build a routine and its the same thing in a cycle. Wake up, work, go out to eat (its cheaper and easier to eat out than eat in), have a pint (watch some football/soccer), go home. On the weekends you do some shopping, and go to one of the 2 club areas or head to HK, then repeat. There isnt a lot to otherwise see or do as far as tourist type activities in GZ.
$1250 will provide you a very, very nice flat/apartment, easily 2LDK, leather living room set, flat screen, all the amenities. The furniture allowance is just a shipping allowance, you can ship whatever you want it need not be furniture (but you will be waiting half a year for it, and then will have to arrange delivery or have someone from your IS with you to pick it up).
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Vernacular
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:49 am
Re: Thailand, Japan or Taiwan?
Japan.
Visit Thailand for holidays - you'll enjoy it more. Besides, the Bangkok salary sounds way too low.
I've worked & lived in both.
Visit Thailand for holidays - you'll enjoy it more. Besides, the Bangkok salary sounds way too low.
I've worked & lived in both.