Clinical therapist switch to behavioral school counselor ?

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CanChi4
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:34 am

Clinical therapist switch to behavioral school counselor ?

Post by CanChi4 »

Currently I am a child therapist at an agency in the US, and I wonder how well a licensed therapist (masters level) position translates into a school behavioral counselor position overseas - particularly Asia. That's our target area (family connections). I am interested in an elementary or middle school counselor position. My husband is also in the mental health industry but upper management. Our thought process was for one of us to do private practice (for expats) and the other to work in a school. We have 2 school age children. Husband has many years experience, I am a couple of years out of grad school.
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

This is going to be harsh.

It doesnt, mental health (MH) is a small part of an IS counselors job, its larger at some ISs and smaller to non-existent at others. Its more a student management appointment then a MH position. There are going to be a number of administration and educational tasking that a clinical practitioner is not going to have experience with. In a more rural setting youd have more long term MH needs, but language will be a barrier with a local student population. In a more urban and metropolitan location you will have less MH needs that will amount to acute and crises management as students/parents will have outside MH professionals for long term MH care and treatment. The other side of the counselor position and sometimes this is a separate position is University/career counseling, which you very likely do not have experience or training with in a school setting.

Second, absent an educator license, you have no license as a clinician outside the states. There is no automatic reciprocity in medical services (as many MH professional are regulated under) in MH services. This doesnt matter much in an IS in regards to professional services (because the reality is a school counselor is no more licensed to do their job at an IS than a sports/PE coach is. They are an educator assigned to a non instructional appointment) but from an accreditation and regulatory standpoint you would very likely be considered uncredentialed.

The standard bar of entry into IE is a bachelors degree, a professional educator credential, and two years post certification experience. If you/spouse were an Ivy league graduate that would be different, but you have no more experience than an entry level IT, your spouse would likely be more marketable, I could see some lower tier ISs/hardship locations putting willing to overlook the lack of a credential, especially with an IS with a low incidence of MH work and more an administration appointment (someone to manage the schedule, handle crises intervention, do attendance/transcripts, and POC for parent concerns).

A lot would depend on what country/region you are focused on? You need a major metropolitan city and region with an expat population that can support a private practice, but keep the practice small enough to avoid government attention and oversight (your essentially looking at marketing yourself as a life/business coach as opposed to a clinician).

Your spouse will be taking a MAJOR salary cut unless they get hired as an in house provider for a multinational. Your whole family would be taking a serious cut in income and lifestyle at anything that isnt an elite tier IS.

All of this is academic though, youre not logistically employable. 4 travelers for a minimally experienced counselor who cant do it all/Uni Counseling, needing two tuition waivers/places and a trailing spouse. Thats 4 tickets, a 3LDK flat/apartment, insurance, salary, and $20K in tuition. Thats a logistical factor thats a non-starter.

Lastly, you are a tourist teacher, and with your resume a recruiter is going to see that before you even get in the door. It looks exactly what it is you want to give the kids some cultural overseas experience living abroad for a couple years. You are essentially wanting an IS to fund, and manage the logistical process of your trip relocating overseas while educating your children.
Nomads
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: Clinical therapist switch to behavioral school counselor

Post by Nomads »

CanChi4,

PsyGuy and I constantly have different opinions on this issue based on our experience.

I agree it will be difficult with a non-teaching spouse and two school age dependents. However, in my experience as an administrator in different parts of world, counselors are one of the most difficult positions to fill, particularly in elementary and middle school. There is a great need for counselors with a mental health background due to the issues our students face and the lack of community resources in most international cities. A couple of times in my career, I have hired counselors with a similar background to yours.

I would encourage you to go for it and even consider broadening your search. Given the lack of quality applicants, some school might be willing to take on three dependents.

Depending upon the city you wind up in, your husband may have a hard time finding enough clients for full-time work. Perhaps in some of the bigger Asian cities, Bangkok, Hong Kong, Shanghai, he could join an established practice attached to hospitals or clinics that cater to expatriates.

While you may see a drop in your income and/or ability to save, you will be giving your children a great experience.

Good luck.
CanChi4
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:34 am

Re: Clinical therapist switch to behavioral school counselor

Post by CanChi4 »

Thanks, Nomad. We have spoken to our friends and other mental health professionals in Beijing and Shanghai, and their recommendation was a school job for me, and a clinician job for my husband - as you mentioned. I just wasn't sure if my therapist background was transferable to a school so I thank you for your nod of encouragement. My husband's background would make him an excellent middle school counselor (adolescent work is one of his specialties), but I think it would be incredibly hard for us to find 2 counselor positions in the same city.
mamava
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 7:56 am

Re: Clinical therapist switch to behavioral school counselor

Post by mamava »

I lived in Beijing and there were a couple clinicians set up making out very well there working with children from the schools (and probably adults). Some of the big areas don't have therapists with western experience or who speak English really fluently so, assuming you get through whatever hoops there are to doing business there, you could be fine.

For schools, I think it would really depend on the needs of the schools. The pressure of college and managing that process is big and may trump having a great mental health background. At a middle school level (or a big school with multiple high school counselors) a mental health background that including counseling might be desirable. I think it's what the admin perceive they need (which is not always the same as the actual need). If your background was working with children and you are applying for that same age range, you'd have a better chance.

And also know that counseling involves a lot of other things that aren't counseling--counselors I've worked with oversee standardized testing, supervise the admissions process, lead parent coffees, etc. and some have found it hard to carve out the actual time needed to work with children. You would want to know exactly what the job duties entail--and know that counselors get a lot of stuff thrown at them along the way. Good luck!
PsyGuy
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Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@CanChi4

Your husband is more marketable than you are in an educational setting, a more marketable approach would be you in the private practice and your spouse in an IS position. The family logistics and lack of certification are going to be significantly challenging and frustrating. The ISs that could afford your scenario, do not have any difficulty finding an appropriately qualified and experienced counselor.

@mamava

The biggest adjustment for a clinical practitioner in a counselor role, is how little of the tasking is "counseling" and how much of it is administrative support and student management. A counselor compared to a clinician is not going to have a day calender filled with appointments of providing MH services client after client.
EllieSLP
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 11:45 pm

Re: Clinical therapist switch to behavioral school counselor

Post by EllieSLP »

Can Chi4, I live in Beijing and work both in the medical and educational field. My view falls somewhere between Nomads and PsyGuy. Please DM me and I can give you more information. I wish you the best of luck. Remember, if this is truly your dream, you will make it happen...you just need patience and perseverance.

Ellie
CanChi4
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:34 am

Re: Clinical therapist switch to behavioral school counselor

Post by CanChi4 »

Ellie, I would love to send you a direct message, but the moderators have stated that they turned off the function.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

PMs have generally been disabled on this forum, they have occasionally been allowed or permitted for short periods of time, but they usually impose security risks and spam concerns.
EllieSLP
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 11:45 pm

Re: Clinical therapist switch to behavioral school counselor

Post by EllieSLP »

Thanks for the info PsyGuy.

Can Chi4, you can find me on Wechat as EllieSLP.
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