Question about Visa/Immigration

mcqueen
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:24 am

Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by mcqueen »

I would like to have a private conversation with anyone who has any knowledge or experience regarding visas and immigration issues related to international teaching. Please PM me or reply to this thread if you are willing to discuss with me.

Thank you.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by sid »

This is highly specialized based first on what country you're talking about, and next on a million details about your qualifications, your nationality, your experience, your accompanying family members, even your health. Give us a clue and we might be able to help you.
mcqueen
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:24 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by mcqueen »

Specifically background checks. Have had a legal issue (not related to kids/school) in a foreign country.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by sid »

You're really not giving us much to go on.
Background checks are increasingly common and can run the gamut from useless (a paper from any police office verifying that you have no record at that office) to very detailed, thorough and official.
What is your question?
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by sid »

Oh, and some are required to meet legal or visa requirements, but often they're just required by the school, not the government. Not that it makes much difference. If you don't pass, your contract is probably void.
Tess
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:30 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by Tess »

Hello,

you need to avail a little more details on what exactly you want advise on as it varies from country to country.
sciteach
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by sciteach »

Your request is an interesting one but as most people stated more information is needed.

Every country has different expectations for visas - specifically for teaching

Some countries only require a visa from your country of residence, while some require one from every country you have ever worked in.

Having current teaching registration in your home country is also very commonly needed as well - depending on the country. If you hold a conviction in another country it really depends on the conviction - with every country having different expectations. For example, being caught with marijuana a while ago won't stop you from getting a job in some countries but in others it's a total deal breaker.

If you decide to join Search they request that you mention these types of things - which can in some contracts make it null and void automatically if you have a spent conviction which is not declared.
mcqueen
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:24 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by mcqueen »

Ok, I'll just go for it.

6 years ago, while travelling internationally, I was charged with the equivalent of an assault. I had been a teacher in that country before, but was not teaching at the time. I served 9 weeks in prison. While in prison, my tourist visa expired, and following my release from prison, I was deported from this country. I will not get into the nitty-gritty details and tell you how innocent I was, save to say that I was acting in self-defense and if it had been my own country, I would not have been arrested, nor charged. I can say that although I was protecting myself, and did not use excessive force, I did allow myself to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and for that I paid the price.

In my job search following my release, I spoke to an administrator who had been recruiting me for her school for the previous 2 years. I told her about my situation and she told me that she still wanted to hire me but that she would have to run it by the board of directors. Two weeks later, as expected, the answer was a "sorry, I really want you on my staff, but the board said no".

I eventually found a job in a good international school in another country. I did not have to lie, as I wasn't asked to provide a criminal background check and I wasn't asked any questions about any legal issues in the past. I can provide a clean criminal record check from my home country, and from my current country of residence. However, if a school asks me for, or simply conducts a criminal record check from every country that I have ever worked in, then this offense will likely turn up.

I have many questions and very few answers. I have thought about ending my international school teaching career. After 5 years at my current school, I am considering beginning a job search, but I am wary for obvious reasons. When international schools conduct background checks, do the external background check organizations include all countries that can be checked, or do they just check the countries on your CV? What kind of checks do various governments do?

I definitely have a moral dilemma. I believe in being forthright, but I also understand that if I volunteer this information, it is highly likely that I will not find work. I also believe in second chances. I am a passionate, committed international teacher with 10 years of experience and 3 very good references. I care about teaching and about helping kids. In any case, I'm trying to figure out what my next step should be.

Any kind of advice would be great.
matts1w
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:12 pm

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by matts1w »

I don't have an answer, but I'm sorry that happened to you. I have watched some absolutely terrifying legal events unfold over the last year and a half, and the reality of how "at risk" we really are when overseas is...it gives me much to think about and be grateful for. I do know that since the suicide and consequent revelations of a certain sickening individual, a growing number of schools are committed to conducting the best international background checks possible. This is obviously very good and very needed. More and more schools will hopefully follow suit and do away with only requiring the simple letter from local police. Again, I am sorry that happened...glad you are safe now.
vandsmith
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:16 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by vandsmith »

assault doesn't look good but schools don't necessarily conduct searches in all the countries you have been in - it's not practical or possible sometimes. they would have to coordinate with police in the countries you've been in and, depending on which countries, it could be impossible or near-impossible.

if i were you, i would go on and apply for schools. you say you can get a clean record from home, and that's what the majority of schools i have seen require.

if you're happy at your current school, why move? and again, if you do want to move just go "business as usual" until it becomes an issue.

good luck!

v.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by sid »

Actually, as we speak, a high-level group headed by Bambi Betts of AISH and PTC fame has been working for several months already on just the question of how to support schools in making full-on, all country, complete background checks the norm. They are looking for something that all schools in the "big leagues" would sign on to, and many of the lower tier schools probably too. So the situation is not going away and not something to ignore. As has been pointed out, recent events have proven that we need to do a better job of protecting children, and proper background checks is one effective step.
For the OP, I've been trying to think of effective strategies. You are in a tough spot, and looking for real advice.
First, I advise honesty. Whatever the reason for your incarceration, you were convicted, and any attempt to hide such a thing will result in disaster upon discovery. And discovery is likely, over time. Many schools are using services to conduct background checks. The one at my last school would definitely have uncovered your situation, and the school would definitely have rescinded any offer if you hadn't told us before we found out. Honestly, we probably would have passed even if you told us first, but honesty is still your only chance. Some schools are now running background checks on people even years after they've been hired, if they didn't run them when people were hired. So getting hired through omission won't work either. Not to mention that all it takes is one person who knows your past, and is angry or self righteous, and you'll be exposed. It's no way to live.
My second advice is to get as much support as you can. Who was there, who knows the full story, who can put it in writing and be willing to take a phone call from a school? Submit letter, names and contact details at the time of interview. Not at application, but at interview. Try working with Search Associates, with an associate who can guide you to locations that might work. Get out in front of this thing. Be open and direct. If you're not afraid to talk about it, schools might listen. Some schools won't be able to take you as you won't pass local visa laws, but others have the leeway to consider you.
Third advice. Stay at each school, including the current, as long as possible. Build a new record over time, and go through this difficult process as few times as possible.
mcqueen
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:24 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by mcqueen »

Thank you matts1w, vandsmith and sid for your thoughtful replies and advice. I wanted to mention that the criminal conviction is now considered 'spent' in the country in which it took place. Does this make a difference? Would it still turn up in a background check?

I've also read some advice on this forum about "ghosting" a year or two on a CV, would this be useful in this situation?

I do want to be honest as I can't even explain how difficult it has been to be looking over my shoulder, but I have trouble believing any school would ever hire me. It's a matter of accountability for the administration. If they knowingly hire me having a criminal record, especially one with a violent crime, it puts their career at risk. If I was an administrator, I would not hire me knowing the truth. How do you explain that one to parents and other stakeholders if the information came to light?
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by sid »

I don't know the legalities of "spent"'or what turns up in an investigation. You could try investigating yourself and find out.
But even if, hiding it or ghosting or anything like that, you still run the risk of being discovered down the road. If you've hidden it and get found out, you have a guaranteed result.
Try adding the spent documentation to your folder, the one with all the info the school needs to check things out. If the country is willing to give you a clear letter, that can only help.
mcqueen
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:24 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by mcqueen »

Sid, I am going to take your advice and conduct an investigation on myself to see what turns up. I am wondering what companies / processes international schools use to conduct international background checks? Does anyone know?

Also, from people's experience, do schools contacts only your most recent employers or do they contact employers from 5+ years ago?
OzGrad
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:43 am

Re: Question about Visa/Immigration

Post by OzGrad »

The whole purpose of spent convictions is to give people a second chance, so to speak, after a 10 year crime free period.

Declaring a spent conviction defeats the purpose of a second chance.

Of course, this varies country to country.

Certain convictions will never become spent, crimes against children etc. This is an area where countries, rightly, do share information.

First try and get a copy of your criminal record in the country where you offended.

If the offence doesn't show up for you, it is unlikely to show up for a third . search.

Lastly, I am unaware of the details of your offence and which country it occurred in, so take this advice with a grain of salt.
Post Reply