@Nomads
Do your own research start with the PsychINFO.
@ Walter
Your anecdotal feelings and believes are not congruent or supported by the data. Every admin thinks they are special and awesome and have super powers, but it just isnt true.
Sexual predators are very good at hiding their motivations whether in person or virtually. Meeting in person for an interview is not a reliable predictor for identifying a sexual predator. The same is true of other sociopathic individuals, including recruiters and leadership. They get very good at projecting whatever image they want to.
Most educators can put on their professional mask and fake a 30 minute interview on both sides of the interview. You could just as easily hire an IT in a F2F interview and have to use the same defense, that they seemed "okay" in the interview.
Sensible professionals use data not emotion in their decision making process.
Telephone, my IS only recruits though an audio telephone interview. They havent had a fair in 6 years.
Window of Opportunity
Re: Window of Opportunity
@psyguy, sensible professionals use experience, instinct, interpretation AND data where it is useful and relevant. Much school data isn't useful and relevant, since it tends to measure the superficial and simplistic.
As far as recruitment goes, data is useful to me if, for example, I see an endless trail of short term jobs on a resume. That is enough to make sure that the candidate doesn't make it to my interview pile. If the candidate includes results from some hokey Myers Briggs personality test, that would be data in which I would have zero interest, since MBTI is one of many psychological tests of dubious validity.
If the candidate talks about exceptional results her students have obtained in IB exams, then that may be data of some interest, but there are a couple of large provisos there. First, is the candidate telling the truth (I know you will struggle to believe this, but some people actually lie on resumes), and second how did the results in the candidate's subject compare with how well the students did elsewhere (of my twelve candidates in IB History Higher, nine scored a 6 may hint at some good teaching, but what if those nine all scored 7s in their other Highers).
The interview is what works for me, Dave, and, in the unlikely event of your making into the room, I'm pretty sure my spidey senses would sniff you out in a matter of minutes.
As far as recruitment goes, data is useful to me if, for example, I see an endless trail of short term jobs on a resume. That is enough to make sure that the candidate doesn't make it to my interview pile. If the candidate includes results from some hokey Myers Briggs personality test, that would be data in which I would have zero interest, since MBTI is one of many psychological tests of dubious validity.
If the candidate talks about exceptional results her students have obtained in IB exams, then that may be data of some interest, but there are a couple of large provisos there. First, is the candidate telling the truth (I know you will struggle to believe this, but some people actually lie on resumes), and second how did the results in the candidate's subject compare with how well the students did elsewhere (of my twelve candidates in IB History Higher, nine scored a 6 may hint at some good teaching, but what if those nine all scored 7s in their other Highers).
The interview is what works for me, Dave, and, in the unlikely event of your making into the room, I'm pretty sure my spidey senses would sniff you out in a matter of minutes.
Reply
@Walter
No, sensible professional use experience to apply data, sensible professionals use instinct and interpretation when they dont have data. None of those are a substitute or superior to reliable and valid data.
Your data is simplistic and superficial because you dont have good data, thats not a criticism of the value of data in decision making but on your ability to collect valid and reliable data.
Yes I agree a series of short term appointments would likely be significant data in recruitment decision making.
You dont understand psychometric very well, many instruments dont get published if they dont have significant validity and reliability studies to support them. The MBTI isnt hokey, when properly administered and assessed, as compared to a candidate who completed an online self assessment and has a desirable personality type (such as ESFP), the same type obtained from a competent and qualified third ., is far more valuable then your "intuition or instincts". When administered correctly it has a significant validity and reliability. You are confusing validity with utility. Much as a hammer is a very "valid" tool, it has little "utility" for removing a screw from the wall.
Resumes arent applications, sworn testimony or subscribed to under oath, they are marketing tools, it would be naive and foolish to think otherwise. It is no different than an ISs brochure or web page, its designed to emphasis the positive and minimize the negative.
You dont understand statistics and assessment. Only 7% of students receive a 7, everyone wants those ITs there arent enough to accommodate the other 93% of IB DIP students. An IT that has demonstrated success of achieving 6s in student performance, if used as an indicator of IT effectiveness, is very high IT performance.
There are no factors across subject areas that indicate deficiency in any domain. Less than 1% of students get a 45 in IB results and 7s in all but one domain that scores a 6 means nothing according to the data on IT effectiveness.
You dont know if the interview works for you, you have no data to testing alternative hypothesis. Its nothing more then a basic causality fallacy. The witchdoctor beats the drums and it rains, the beating drums caused the rain.
Again, all admins like to think they are special, you dont have spidey sense or any other cognitive or biological construct that provides you extra sensory stimuli.
You still dont know what you think you know.
No, sensible professional use experience to apply data, sensible professionals use instinct and interpretation when they dont have data. None of those are a substitute or superior to reliable and valid data.
Your data is simplistic and superficial because you dont have good data, thats not a criticism of the value of data in decision making but on your ability to collect valid and reliable data.
Yes I agree a series of short term appointments would likely be significant data in recruitment decision making.
You dont understand psychometric very well, many instruments dont get published if they dont have significant validity and reliability studies to support them. The MBTI isnt hokey, when properly administered and assessed, as compared to a candidate who completed an online self assessment and has a desirable personality type (such as ESFP), the same type obtained from a competent and qualified third ., is far more valuable then your "intuition or instincts". When administered correctly it has a significant validity and reliability. You are confusing validity with utility. Much as a hammer is a very "valid" tool, it has little "utility" for removing a screw from the wall.
Resumes arent applications, sworn testimony or subscribed to under oath, they are marketing tools, it would be naive and foolish to think otherwise. It is no different than an ISs brochure or web page, its designed to emphasis the positive and minimize the negative.
You dont understand statistics and assessment. Only 7% of students receive a 7, everyone wants those ITs there arent enough to accommodate the other 93% of IB DIP students. An IT that has demonstrated success of achieving 6s in student performance, if used as an indicator of IT effectiveness, is very high IT performance.
There are no factors across subject areas that indicate deficiency in any domain. Less than 1% of students get a 45 in IB results and 7s in all but one domain that scores a 6 means nothing according to the data on IT effectiveness.
You dont know if the interview works for you, you have no data to testing alternative hypothesis. Its nothing more then a basic causality fallacy. The witchdoctor beats the drums and it rains, the beating drums caused the rain.
Again, all admins like to think they are special, you dont have spidey sense or any other cognitive or biological construct that provides you extra sensory stimuli.
You still dont know what you think you know.
Re: Window of Opportunity
@payguy: Dave, you seem to have a lot of free time at the moment. Care to elaborate?
You and your data. Next you’ll be telling me you’re data-driven. That’s so 20th century. The data-hungry chumps who run their schools according to their MAP scores or their IGCSE results or faculty turnover rates spend hours churning out meaningless reports that give the barest monochrome snapshot of an intensely complex social organization. Sure I use data when it’s helpful, but I insist that it’s contextual, relevant and comprehensive – and even then it will only add colour to the picture. It isn’t the picture itself.
As for MBTI, you must have skipped out of university well before the end of your psych class. I haven’t heard a serious psychologist defend MBTI for decades. No one believes in the 16 binary personality types, and no one believes in a personality assessment instrument whose test-retest reliability is so laughably low. In one study, 50% of those who retook MBTI changed their personality type after five weeks. Duh.
Resumes aren’t marketing tools, Dave. They are supposed to provide relevant and accurate information about your career experiences as in: “a brief account of a person's education, qualifications, and previous experience, typically sent with a job application”. They aren’t works of fiction where you are free to invent things that make you look good. I can’t believe that you would ever lie on a resume – invent jobs you hadn’t had, create a university record that was fallacious, provide referees who didn’t know you – that would be shocking!
I love it when you leap to your scarcely remembered Stats 101 course. As I told you before, data comes with a context. If a teacher teaches 12 students who all get 6s, but they get 7s in every other subject, then that adds to the picture. Just as if a teacher teaches 12 students who all get 4s but they get 2s and 3s in their other subjects. I know that bit was hard to figure out, but I wrote it slowly to help you.
I still back myself on being able to size you up in any interview @payguy. Are you going to any Fairs this year? If so I’ll look out for you!
You and your data. Next you’ll be telling me you’re data-driven. That’s so 20th century. The data-hungry chumps who run their schools according to their MAP scores or their IGCSE results or faculty turnover rates spend hours churning out meaningless reports that give the barest monochrome snapshot of an intensely complex social organization. Sure I use data when it’s helpful, but I insist that it’s contextual, relevant and comprehensive – and even then it will only add colour to the picture. It isn’t the picture itself.
As for MBTI, you must have skipped out of university well before the end of your psych class. I haven’t heard a serious psychologist defend MBTI for decades. No one believes in the 16 binary personality types, and no one believes in a personality assessment instrument whose test-retest reliability is so laughably low. In one study, 50% of those who retook MBTI changed their personality type after five weeks. Duh.
Resumes aren’t marketing tools, Dave. They are supposed to provide relevant and accurate information about your career experiences as in: “a brief account of a person's education, qualifications, and previous experience, typically sent with a job application”. They aren’t works of fiction where you are free to invent things that make you look good. I can’t believe that you would ever lie on a resume – invent jobs you hadn’t had, create a university record that was fallacious, provide referees who didn’t know you – that would be shocking!
I love it when you leap to your scarcely remembered Stats 101 course. As I told you before, data comes with a context. If a teacher teaches 12 students who all get 6s, but they get 7s in every other subject, then that adds to the picture. Just as if a teacher teaches 12 students who all get 4s but they get 2s and 3s in their other subjects. I know that bit was hard to figure out, but I wrote it slowly to help you.
I still back myself on being able to size you up in any interview @payguy. Are you going to any Fairs this year? If so I’ll look out for you!
Reply
@Walter
Data driven as compared to what, your instinct/gut feeling driven model? You dont understand what data is. Focusing solely on assessment results is mono focal. It is one type and form of data. No, data is the picture, assessment and performance data is but one color in a broad palette.
Defend the MBTI in what regard? As a predictor of abnormal behavior, nope havent heard of the clinical psych field defending it in that regard either. It has other valid and reliable uses however, you didnt stay in psychology long enough.
No, lots of people believe in them, there are people that believe a spaghetti monster is the source of the human race and some people believe a burning bush can talk as well.
The MBTI reliability data is greatly dependent on its administration. Its easy to research the MBTI and psycho-metrically navigate it to achieve a desired rating, thats an administration issue.
No Resumes are marketing tools, what you are referring to is an application. Resumes are focused on the positive, not the negative. As such they are one perception of reality not a chronicle of it.
Never took stats 101 my lowest stat course is a 3000 level course, and no a theoretical student with all 7s but one 6, adds nothing to the picture, nor do your 12 students who get a 4 in one subject and 2s and 3s in other subjects. None of that is context, and none of that has any predictive validity of IT performance. Its the equivalent of claiming the answer is 42.
Never met an admin/manager who didnt think they werent special and you still dont know what you think you know.
Data driven as compared to what, your instinct/gut feeling driven model? You dont understand what data is. Focusing solely on assessment results is mono focal. It is one type and form of data. No, data is the picture, assessment and performance data is but one color in a broad palette.
Defend the MBTI in what regard? As a predictor of abnormal behavior, nope havent heard of the clinical psych field defending it in that regard either. It has other valid and reliable uses however, you didnt stay in psychology long enough.
No, lots of people believe in them, there are people that believe a spaghetti monster is the source of the human race and some people believe a burning bush can talk as well.
The MBTI reliability data is greatly dependent on its administration. Its easy to research the MBTI and psycho-metrically navigate it to achieve a desired rating, thats an administration issue.
No Resumes are marketing tools, what you are referring to is an application. Resumes are focused on the positive, not the negative. As such they are one perception of reality not a chronicle of it.
Never took stats 101 my lowest stat course is a 3000 level course, and no a theoretical student with all 7s but one 6, adds nothing to the picture, nor do your 12 students who get a 4 in one subject and 2s and 3s in other subjects. None of that is context, and none of that has any predictive validity of IT performance. Its the equivalent of claiming the answer is 42.
Never met an admin/manager who didnt think they werent special and you still dont know what you think you know.