What do you think of this candidate?

Cafare52
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:21 pm

What do you think of this candidate?

Post by Cafare52 »

As a prospective employer would you be hesitant to hire someone like this?

I taught for 2 years in the US before going overseas to a reasonably respected IB program but left after 2 years because of salary and cost of living.

Now I am in a city that I really like on a good salary but I feel my skills are atrophying and the program is weak/ non-IB and students are mostly local of the ESL variety. It is hugely disappointing. I am not an unreasonable person whatsoever but don't really feel like I will be grow in the direction I want to at my current post. Like everyone else in our profession I think I am a superstar but unlike them I actually am one.

So next hiring cycle if I choose to leave I would have:

2 years in states
2 years at IB school teaching non-IB classes.
2 years at AP school teaching non-AP classes.
Masters Degree
IB training but no IB teaching experience.

All 6 years of experience in Secondary Social Studies including (Economics.)

Is the 2, 2, and 2 thing a red flag? What do you think here? I know I interview well and can explain things away but is that the type of thing that would prevent me from getting an interview?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
National
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:00 am

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by National »

To me the biggest red flag is the fact that you've taught in an IB school, but didn't teach IB classes (I'm assuming the school was only DP and you didn't teach in the DP) and the same for the AP school. If you are a good teacher, you should be able to move into those classes. Perhaps this is where the two years at each school come into play -- if you stayed more than two years, you could get the IB or AP experience, but few schools will put an unknown teacher straight into DP classes with the stakes being so high. There are a lot of social studies applicants most years and many will have the DP experience you're lacking.
sciteach
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:49 am

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by sciteach »

As mentioned by National - the subjects you teach are probably the most competitive out of all of the teaching jobs at international schools. For example, last year I interviewed with UNIS and was told by Chip (HOS - I think) that they had over 100 applications online for an MYP Humanities teacher but only 8 or so for the MYP Science position. That's basically what you are up against.

But then again - there is a job for everyone and your job is to find out where you want to be in the medium to longer term.

Yes you have moved around a little bit - but I think the biggest red flag for moving around is when a teacher has moved 3 times in 6 years INTERNATIONALLY! But then again - some admin don't have a problem with teachers moving around so it's really a catch 22.

Moving between the AP and IB systems can be problematic, but your main problem seems to be that you have no IB or AP experience which means that you only really have 6 years of teaching experience. Note that the MYP, IGCSE or even IYMC is an important stepping stone which helps you teach those AP or DP classes if that's what you want to do.

I also strongly disagree that everyone else thinks they are a superstar when teaching. Different cultures have different expectations and in my home country (along with many areas in asia) it's seen as bad to gloat.

Probably the most poignant comment I've ever heard from a recruiter is the following generalisation: "Many people are very good at telling me everything they can do (aka overselling themselves). What I prefer to hear is what they cannot do."

As such - it may be true that you may not get many interviews with Tier 1 schools (yet!) but that will come when you have MYP/DP/IGCSE/AP/A-Level experience. Also remember that your referees (if you are on Search Associates) is often more important than what your experience is so choose these people wisely (if that's possible).

Good luck and apologies if this seems a little abrasive - that was not my intention.

EDIT: changed nationality name in quote to people
Cafare52
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:21 pm

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by Cafare52 »

I didn't feel like you were abrasive and I appreciate the feedback from you both. Keep it coming.

My first international school offered me IB (TOK) if I were to sign on another 2 years which would have been another 2 years of loan deferment and the total inability to save money. I just couldn't accept that even though professionally it would have been the foot in the door I needed to get into the IB game.

I also made the possible mistake (strongly influenced by my lack of funds) to not attend a fair, which I have still yet to do. Nevertheless I was offered a job at the only 3 schools I interviewed with -2 APs and 1 IB- obviously no tier ones here.

I know that my area is one of the most competitive-I also know that I historically I interview well (6 interviews since graduate school and 6 job offers) and am fairly confident that I can really sell the fact that I am IB certified despite the fact that I have yet to teach the courses. I know all the jargon-extended essay, blah blah blah. I also carry no dependents. Furthermore, and the most frustrating point is I have worked with and observed some of these dinosaurs and hacks that do teach IB and many leave a lot to be desired. In the end a lot of IB is about cash money is it not?

The saddest part of the whole equation here is I really like the city where I live, my luxury apartment, the people I work for and with and would stay here indefinitely if I was teaching in a higher curriculum where I can really showcase my ability and develop.

Any more opinions out there of the optimistic variety?
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by shadowjack »

Cafare52. The biggest red flag to me is, "Like everyone else in our profession I think I am a superstar but unlike them I actually am one." It sounds like you are a legend in your own mind.

And knowing the "jargon" is meaningless. For instance, can you articulate how you would transition your MYP year 5 students into your DP economics classes? Or what you would do for your course's IA if your students had no experience at a deeper vertical piece of writing?

Finally, you write that, " have worked with and observed some of these dinosaurs and hacks that do teach IB and many leave a lot to be desired.". So if that were true, why were YOU not teaching IB?

Other's advice - pay your dues, find a school to train you and allow you to teach IB, and then start moving up, is spot on.

My caution to you is this - a couple of more years in tier 2 schools with no IB/AP experience on your CV will be the kiss of death. Recruiters will look at your CV, see the lack of upward trajectory, and toss your CV on the 'no thanks' pile. It happens to many good teachers who don't get things sorted out and just keep moving on, not up.

So good luck on your hunt. I hope you do find what you are looking for this recruiting season.
jimmycajun
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:56 am

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by jimmycajun »

Cafare52 wrote:
Furthermore, and the most frustrating point is I have worked with and observed some of these dinosaurs and hacks that do teach
IB and many leave a lot to be desired.

I'll speak to this point as I'm in the boat (no IB experience/less desirable subject). I don't think the fact that you taught at IB/AP schools but didn't teach those courses has to be/should be looked at as a negative. I think those with an IB heavy resume can often ride off into the sunset by relying on that experience to get them where they want to be..at least based on conversations Ive had with people at my school and forum posts. The experience is their competitive advantage. For those who don't have that IB/AP experience, I think it is possible to sell their inexperience AS a competitive advantage, as illustrated in your quote above. You have 4 years of exposure, although not teaching experience, to these programs and you can definitely use these experiences in your favour. Get studied up on the curriculum you want to teach and make recruiters recognize that even though you don't have the x number of years experience to fall back on, you are aware of that and you know what to expect when an opportunity arises to step up. You need to be at the top of your game, whereas experienced teachers might become stagnant? lose enthusiasm? As scitech mentioned in their post, be aware of your limitations or what you cannot do, but remember to work towards finding solutions for those shortcomings.
vandsmith
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:16 am

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by vandsmith »

Cafare52 wrote:
> As a prospective employer would you be hesitant to hire someone like this?
>
>
> I taught for 2 years in the US before going overseas to a reasonably
> respected IB program but left after 2 years because of salary and cost of
> living.
>
> Now I am in a city that I really like on a good salary but I feel my skills
> are atrophying and the program is weak/ non-IB and students are mostly
> local of the ESL variety. It is hugely disappointing. I am not an
> unreasonable person whatsoever but don't really feel like I will be grow in
> the direction I want to at my current post. Like everyone else in our
> profession I think I am a superstar but unlike them I actually am one.
>
> So next hiring cycle if I choose to leave I would have:
>
> 2 years in states
> 2 years at IB school teaching non-IB classes.
> 2 years at AP school teaching non-AP classes.
> Masters Degree
> IB training but no IB teaching experience.
>
> All 6 years of experience in Secondary Social Studies including
> (Economics.)
>
> Is the 2, 2, and 2 thing a red flag? What do you think here? I know I
> interview well and can explain things away but is that the type of thing
> that would prevent me from getting an interview?
>
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

i agree with the above posters. you don't need to sell it to us, and you won't know how "hire-able" you are until you get another few interviews.

if i was to give you feedback, then yes, the 2+2+2 does raise a flag and a question: why did you leave? YOUR ANSWER to that question has to be better than "because old dinosaurs who couldn't teach occupied those positions. i would have killed those AP/IB positions..." i can understand your frustration regarding your current position and your finances BUT you did accept your current position...

it does sound like you're at that point where you simply have to put the time in somewhere in order to get those coveted IB/AP spots.

best of luck! hope you get lots of offers.

v.
Cafare52
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:21 pm

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by Cafare52 »

Overall I am thrilled by your replies, some more encouraging than others but all constructive, nevertheless.

I wouldn't be looking at until the following season at the earliest and have a lot of time to prepare professionally.

You guys are great!

And by the way:

shadowjack wrote:
> Cafare52. The biggest red flag to me is, "Like everyone else in our
> profession I think I am a superstar but unlike them I actually am
> one." It sounds like you are a legend in your own mind.

I was being sarcastic here.

>

AND:

>" Finally, you write that, " have worked with and observed some of these
> dinosaurs and hacks that do teach IB and many leave a lot to be
> desired.". So if that were true, why were YOU not teaching IB?"

I would have been-they offered it to me but financial realities forced me to leave for a more profitable region of the world where I could finally start to cover some of my loan.
>
>
Anyhow-it will be a tough decision to make. My current job is relatively "easy" in that expectations are middling and living standards and salaries are high. I have plenty of time to consider my options and hopefully with your input the status of the job market. I want what everyone else does I just feel like at this point I should no longer have to pay my dues. Perhaps I am wrong about that.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by sid »

As a recruiter, yes, the 2 2 2 thing would give me pause.
On a different note, it occurs to me that you could develop yourself exactly where you are. Your self description seems to indicate that you can teach high flying native English speakers really well. Ok, great, but you're hardly alone in that. If you really want to be a great teacher, see what you can do with the local, ESL students you have right in front of you. When you have the skills to bring them along to the highest levels, when you can scaffold the work and teach the English they need to master your subject, then you will be at the top of the profession.
And I'd love to hear about that when I interview you.
Cafare52
Posts: 29
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:21 pm

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by Cafare52 »

Thanks a lot Sid. I know you are right about that and this certainly is making me more adept at scaffolding and ESL strategies, which in the end will only make me more skillful and well rounded. And don't get me wrong-I enjoy my classroom and my kids at my current post but am a lot more limited in what I can share with them compared to previous years.

Thanks Again.
Nomads
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by Nomads »

As an administrator, the 2-2-2 would be reason to give me pause, particularly because you teach a subject with many candidates most who have taught IB/AP. My advice, like Sids, is to stay where you are and try to get experience teaching advanced classes. If you come out after two more years with AP experience, you would be a much more attractive candidate.
Nomad68
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:50 pm
Location: East of nowhere you want to be

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by Nomad68 »

Is 2 years in an international job really a red flag?
Since moving overseas I have worked in 4 schools - respectively 4 years, 1 year, 2 years, and expect to do two years in my current post. I read that you should try to do a third year if offered but there are a lot of mediocre and plain horrible schools where that just aren't worth another year of your life. Schools generally offer 2 year contracts anyway so why the stigma if you decide to move on (assuming there is a stigma)?
The 1 year was in a war zone by the way.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by shadowjack »

Nomad, no offense, but the problem is that if you spend your 2-2-2-2 or whatever number 4 schools in 8 years, and you aren't making any upwards movement in quality of schools, then you hit a point where you reach for the brass ring, they look at your record and where you've been and place your CV in the "thanks but no thanks" pile.

Definitely by the time you hit 10 years and academically gone nowhere, it is much harder to go anywhere other than similar places. Other's opinions might vary, but there is some truth in it.

Any admin who might be able to comment or give insight into this? Perhaps I am off base.
Nomads
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:08 pm

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by Nomads »

Nomad68 and Shadowjack,

While schools do offer two year contracts, most expect (hope) the teachers to stay three or four years. In my experience, the teachers who are settled and not getting ready to leave provide a higher quality performance in the classroom, are more likely to coach, serve on a committee, and th elike.

There is also the issue of return of investment on the costs of recruiting and bringing the teacher into country. It takes many teachers a few months to get settled into the country, understand the way the school works, and perhaps even the curriculum In the last year, by February or March, the teachers are thinking about their new post and getting ready to move. It doesn't mean they are not performing well, it is harder for many to perform at the same level as when they are settled.

To Shadow's question, when looking at candidates, if I have a number of quality applicants, I will most definitely prioritize the teachers who have a record of staying at posts for four or five years over those who leave every two.

I have hired teachers knowing they will only stay two years, generally due to age and visa issues, but those were in hard to fill positions like IB sciences.
Nomad68
Posts: 175
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:50 pm
Location: East of nowhere you want to be

Re: What do you think of this candidate?

Post by Nomad68 »

I see your point - in my case we are feeling that 10 years in the ME is our limit. I will do a third year in my current post if I absolutely have to but Saudi is a tough place especially with very small kids and I have to consider their educational options. So the best option is to always take the third if offered.
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