tiers...?

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sophiamartin
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:24 pm
Location: Mount Shasta, CA

tiers...?

Post by sophiamartin »

Hi everyone,

I'm sure this has been asked before, though I went through about five pages of posts and didn't see anything. If there's a thread someone can link to, I'd be glad to just go and read that.

Here's the question:
Everyone talks about the different tiers of schools. Is there a list somewhere?

I read a post where someone was talking about third tier schools, and making a distinction between upper third tier schools and bottom third tier schools. I think when my husband and I (both teachers, plus we have 2 boys) are ready to move forward with applying for international teaching jobs (in probably 2-3 years, depending on some factors that should become clear in about 6-7 months), it's likely we'll be looking at second and third tier schools in order to "pay our dues." Not that we won't apply to top tier schools, too, but honestly we're not as concerned with prestige as finding a situation that would suit our needs as professionals and as a family. The description I read of the upper third tier schools sounded like it might be a pretty good fit for us, actually. So now I want to figure out what schools qualify as upper third tier, so I can look at where they are located, etc.

Also, I've seen people on here refer to QSI schools in a way that seems to indicate that they are not top tier...? I apologize if I've misinterpreted, it's sometimes hard to gauge tone. It does sound like they tend to be friendly toward families, so I thought they might be a good fit for us. Can anyone tell me more about their reputation?

Thanks for any and all responses.
marieh
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 11:33 pm

Re: tiers...?

Post by marieh »

PsyGuy will be along shortly with his excellent breakdown of the tier system. However, I would encourage you to focus on individual schools and not tiers, as it's ultimately a matter of personal preference. A good place to start would be looking at the ISR reviews of schools in countries you might want to teach. I say this as someone who is extremely happy at a school that many would consider 3rd due to the local students (who are lovely) but is 1st tier in terms of pay and benefits.
sophiamartin
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:24 pm
Location: Mount Shasta, CA

Re: tiers...?

Post by sophiamartin »

Thanks for your response! Yes, I know you're right. I think my question is probably coming out of a need to dream about the possibilities rather than real, solid, practical considerations right now. I don't mean to waste anyone's time. I would just like to have a way to browse the possible schools and get a sense for what they are all about, where they are, etc., in anticipation of next year, when we may be ready to start seriously applying. We're pretty open about where we'll go, with a few exceptions (with our two little boys in tow, we want to avoid areas known to be more dangerous).

Where is your school located?

I don't really see why people ding a school for primarily serving the local population, unless that population has a specific issue. I've read, for instance, that very wealthy kids in the ME tend to be very entitled and difficult (though please correct me if that's not true). I could see where that population would be unpleasant to serve. But if there's no such issue, what's the problem? A language barrier?
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: tiers...?

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

As has been said, tiers can be very subjective. There is no list beyond different people's varying opinions. I think most people would prefer to teach at higher tier schools less for the prestige and more because they are generally just better places to work, better places for your children to be educated and allow you to provide a better lifestyle for your family.

There are always exceptions to that of course. Also, the workload and expectations can be much greater at many tier one schools which can detract from some of the other benefits. If you look at reviews, and have access to a database of schools' information (like Search Associates) you should be able to target a number of schools in countries that you could see yourselves calling home for a few years and that would be a good fit for your family (e.g. salary/benefits, education, workload etc).

As for schools that primarily serve a local population, they are not all bad but they generally do suffer from some of the same issues. Language is an issue which can affect your whole experience at the school. Lower levels of English proficiency can mean that the students and school are academically behind where they should be for grade/age which can affect your teaching experience and the education of your children. It can also mean that socially they would have a tough time fitting in or even be ostracized/bullied. Also, many schools that are less international in make up tend to be for profit schools in every bad sense of the word.

Of course, there are many exceptions to all of these possible concerns. Our family has had a great life and lifestyle and we have not taught at any prestigious schools in our overseas careers. It is just something to keep in mind as you try to see how you would fit into a given school, country, city etc.
sophiamartin
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:24 pm
Location: Mount Shasta, CA

Re: tiers...?

Post by sophiamartin »

Thanks for your response.

You raise a good point about wanting the best education for our kids, and also wanting them to be able to fit in.
LUWahoo
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:20 pm

Re: tiers...?

Post by LUWahoo »

For what it's worth, here's a copy-paste of one of Psyguys 'tier dumps', as I have now decided to call them.



TIERS:

Tiers certainly exist. While its true that you should pursue ISs that match your needs and wants, the tier system is not a means of comparing an IS to your criteria, but a metric of comparison between ISs. You can be very happy or content at a third tier IS but it is still a third tier IS.

Tiers arent official but they are more or less formalized, as a profession weve been using the system for between 5-10 years. As a profession their is a lot of consensus on the top, middle and the bottom, where we disagree is the boundaries and the margins.

Japan is a "highly preferred" region, lots of people want to relocate there, and will do anything to do so. Singapore is one of the little tigers (along with HK, JP).

The tier system reflects IT/educator predictive experience, not quality of education.
There is a correlation between learning quality and outcomes and tiers, mainly that lower tier ISs reflect talk and chalk, drill and kill, rote memorization, and other "direct teach" meds/peds. Students are more or less pushed through the process with little regard for actual performance. A significant population of these students are successful in lower tier ISs because their parents are paying tuition, and thats it.
Upper tier ISs do produce considerable learning and growth outcomes, the issue is that these students are well resourced, and come from affluent backgrounds were education is valued, and were disruptions within the IS are minimized. In such cases it is questionable if the IS and the program it provides was a significant contributing factor to the students achievement, and with the inability to test alternative hypothesis, we dont know if the student would have been as successful in another learning environment.

Below you can find the PsyGuy Applicant Assessment System:

PsyGuy Applicant Scoring System:
1) 1 pt / 2 years Experience (Max 10 Years)
2) 1 pt - Advance Degree (Masters)
3) 1 pt - Cross Certified (Must be schedule-able)
4) 1 pt - Curriculum Experience (IB, AP, IGCSE)
5) 1pt - Logistical Hire (Single +.5 pt, Couple +1 pt)
6) .5 pt - Previous International School Experience (standard 2 year contract)
7) .5 pt - Leadership Experience/Role (+.25 HOD, +.5 Coordinator)
8) .5 pt - Extra Curricular (Must be schedule-able)
9) .25 pt - Special Populations (Must be qualified)
10) .25 pt - Special Skill Set (Must be documentable AND marketable)

IT CLASSES:
1) Entry level ITs have a score around 2
2) Career ITs have a score around 4
3) Professional ITs have a score around 6
4) Master ITs have a score around 8

My reactive response is that your competitive for a tier 1 IS. That means that many of the people int he room will have resumes with comparable marketability.

The following is the aforementioned extended treatise on the Tier System:

There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. As a community we tend to agree achieve consensus on the top and the bottom of the tiers. Our biggest disagreement is the margins in-between and the middle. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...

There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, There are several models generally applied to dividing of the tiers, the teacher model is:
Elite Tier: Top schools in the first tier usually 1-2 schools.
1st Tier: The top 5%
2nd Tier: 75%-95%
3rd Tier: Bottom 75%
Upper tier is typically the elite, first tier and some portion of the second tier. Lower tier is the third tier and some portion of the second tier.
In general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to

1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.

Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.

COMPENSATION:

Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:

1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).

WORK ENVIRONMENT:

Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):

1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?

2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?

3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?

4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?

5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?

6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....

JOB SEARCH:

1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.

2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.

3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.

Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)

Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...

Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.

"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.

An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.

For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.

Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).

Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.

I guess thats 4 levels. Is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.


MODELS
We first need to explore the four models of the tier system (which are the parent, owner, admin, and educator). Starting with the easiest is the parent model:

The Parent model, or "Prestige" model is a two tier system that can be described as the "wanted school" (upper tier) and the "waiting school". Parents have a school they want to get into (the wanted school), but for various reasons (no places, not enough pull, wrong organization sponsor, etc) can not get a place, so they then move to their next school down the continuum, until they secure a place for their child/children, this school is the "waiting school", they are waiting until the scenario changes and they either get their top wanted school or they move up the chain to a better school. This system is almost entirely based on the reputation/recognition/popularity/affiliation of the school. Westerners are going to aim for the appropriate embassy school, and then having to invest more and more research will identify additional schools as the need arises.

The Ownership, or "Point" model is based on determining standing and tier level based on a single "point" criterion, usually either compensation (they can buy their way into upper tiers, if they pay enough) or curriculum (were tier 1 is we have IB, etc). This allows school ownership to focus their resources on bettering a single criterion, allowing them to maximize their potential to whatever point they can afford. A lot of the "upper tier" schools in the ME employ this metric. This is often a result of ownership understanding business more than they understand education, but frustrated educators of all types when faced with numerous descriptors, many of which are simply unknown, can and do resort to this tier ranking metric to reduce frustration.

The Admin model or "Divisional" model (Ive also had is described at the Equality Continuum and Linear Equality models) divides the continuum of schools into equal divisions along a continuum. Rank order all the schools and institutions and if you want 3 tiers divide them into the bottom third, the middle third, and the upper third (if you want 4 tiers divide into quarters, and so on). There are two issues with this model. First, what admins love is that because the lower tier schools are so numerous, that any respectable "REAL" IS gets pushed into the first tier. Second, it artificially skews the top and the bottom, while compressing the middle.

The Educator, or "Curve" model (because it approximates the normal curve). takes those same schools on a normal curve and putts the upper 1stSD, lower 2ndSD and lower 3rdSD (Standard deviation, under the curve int his case) and classifies those as the 3rd tier, thats a lot of schools. It then places the upper 80-85 percentile too 95-98 percentile in the 2nd tier. With the remaining upper 5-2 percentile as the 1st tier (the elite school/s are a sup population of the first tier, and is just at or under the 100th percentile). What this means is that schools must truly demonstrate exceptional characteristics befitting the title of "International School", not simply a local, or municipal schools that are characterized as average or slightingly better than average compared to the surrounding market.

Admins hate this model, or as they call it the "depressing, why bother trying model", because the elite schools like palaces of kingdoms of old are very well established and unless your in a region (such as Japan) you often dont have room for more than one palace, and its not likely going anywhere. Meaning that a school and ownership has to do a massive amount of work, and expend tremendous resources to compete with other ISs to get into that very small percentage (top 5% at best) to be considered 1st tier, because the range doesnt change, you have to beat another school out such that their ranking falls so your schools ranking can gain. This leaves the practical outcome that most new schools or re branded schools will expend considerable effort and resources just to get into tier 2, and thats how it should be, because competition is good for the market and the consumer. This isnt some warm fuzzy, and cuddly everyone can get an "A", no this is more like medical school or low school where no matter what you do or how well you do it, there is a forced ordinal ranking from bottom to top. An admin can think their performing at the 90 percentile but if everyone else is at 92% or higher, your still in the bottom, and the bottom is the third tier.
sophiamartin
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:24 pm
Location: Mount Shasta, CA

Re: tiers...?

Post by sophiamartin »

Wow, thank you for all the information!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10792
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

There isnt a tier list of ISs for several reasons, some practical, some technical:

1) We would never agree. Tiers are very subjective, in general we agree on the top and bottom of tiers, we tend to disagree on the middle and the margins.

2) Any organization that published such a list would be litigated into oblivion. HOSs only have one tier 1st tier, and all of them believe they are a 1st tier IS, the reality is that the 1st tier is a very very small percentage of ISs, and all those third tier ISs would be a never ending string of lawsuits.

3) We dont as a profession know how many ISs there are, and we have difficulty even defining what an IS is.

Tiers are a tool and measurement. A number of ITs prefer lower tier ISs for a variety of reasons, that doesnt change that they are third tier ISs, no more than a 5L bucket holds 5L of water. It might be advantageous to claim the bucket holds 6L, or 5L and only 5L may be exactly what you need. Neither desires change the metric, its still a 5L bucket.
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