Hi ISR. I'm new, first post. I've been lurking awhile and have learned a lot, and although I can see you've heard it a lot by now, thank you, I've been very impressed by how clear and informative responses to questions generally are.
I live in China. I don't know much about international schools and/or international departments outside of China. That said, in China there are some high schools with international departments. Some of these schools have very good reputations within China according to the Chinese college entrance exam and where the students later study abroad: http://gaokao.haedu.gov.cn/2015/04/30/1 ... 10298.html. I've been offered work in the international department of two of these schools within the top 25, in math and computers/IT. Background on myself: unrelated degree, no certification yet, ESL teaching exp, .5 years teaching math, so these schools and other offers (from international schools) I've procured are probably pretty near the top of what I should expect.
A specific example of this kind of school is a public school that is perhaps the number 1 public high school in a provincial capital, but also has an international department. While it seems clear these schools are very well-regarded as far as the Chinese college entrance examination is concerned, and as far as their main (Chinese) schooling goes, I'm not sure if this in general carries over to the international department at all. Does it make sense to consider schools like this with an international department versus pure international schools in general?
International Departments v International Schools (China)
Response
Short Answer:
International Academys (thats what an international, bilingual, English, etc. division within a local DS is called), are third tier IS program.
Long Answer:
Academys are generally local management, local curriculum, host nation student population, and "domestic" goals (get into best university you can). They are an extension of ESOL programs, they are just site organized English for Academic Purposes.While they may be respected within the DS community within that region from an IE perspective they are lower tier programs, and some of them are bottom 3rd tier train wrecks. Often described by leadership as "miscommunication problems". Their compensation package is very congruent with what you would expect from a third tier IS
You really dont have a resume that would get you in IE, youre an unlicensed, undegreed ESOL teacher who happens to have been teaching math for half a year. This type of opportunity at a Chinese International Academy is probably the best your going to find that involves academic (non ESOL) instruction. The prestige of the local Chinese DS is not going to impress a recruiter or leadership in the IE profession or on the circuit. They will just classify it as ESOL experience with no utility. To them, no offense, youve just been teaching ESOL math and you have no qualifications. ISs are for the most part tuition and fee charging independent schools, their parents arent going to pay good money for faculty without a professional resume in their childs classroom.
International Academys (thats what an international, bilingual, English, etc. division within a local DS is called), are third tier IS program.
Long Answer:
Academys are generally local management, local curriculum, host nation student population, and "domestic" goals (get into best university you can). They are an extension of ESOL programs, they are just site organized English for Academic Purposes.While they may be respected within the DS community within that region from an IE perspective they are lower tier programs, and some of them are bottom 3rd tier train wrecks. Often described by leadership as "miscommunication problems". Their compensation package is very congruent with what you would expect from a third tier IS
You really dont have a resume that would get you in IE, youre an unlicensed, undegreed ESOL teacher who happens to have been teaching math for half a year. This type of opportunity at a Chinese International Academy is probably the best your going to find that involves academic (non ESOL) instruction. The prestige of the local Chinese DS is not going to impress a recruiter or leadership in the IE profession or on the circuit. They will just classify it as ESOL experience with no utility. To them, no offense, youve just been teaching ESOL math and you have no qualifications. ISs are for the most part tuition and fee charging independent schools, their parents arent going to pay good money for faculty without a professional resume in their childs classroom.
Re: International Departments v International Schools (China
I understand, thanks. I think I'm thinking too much into this. I've heard several times that only post-certificate experience really matters or is relevant, so choosing between these international departments or the low tier international school(s) I can get into is probably going to look about the same. and I have a long way to go towards legitimacy.
Thanks for the quick reply and the honesty. I'd rather know as much as I can now than find out later I've been wasting my time doing x. And thanks again for your other posts. I was going to ask a second question here about the alternative certification programs Teacher Ready, Teach-Now, and PGCEi, but I think I know enough, about them to make a decision, a good part from the information you've posted about them.
I do have one followup question do you think it's going to be valuable teaching this "ESL-math" over just teaching ESL perhaps in a better location? I can find these math jobs in certain Tier 2 cities at the moment, while if I just taught ESL English, I would be able to work literally anywhere in China, such as a bigger Tier 2 city or a Tier 1 city. Although I feel a little stupid typing this, as teaching math will be useful to me experience-wise if not on paper, and I'll feel better about myself not being 'just another English teacher' in China, and thus I'm not likely willing to give up these advantages even though there are cities I would probably rather live in (Chengdu, Shenzhen, maybe Beijing/Shanghai).
Thanks for the quick reply and the honesty. I'd rather know as much as I can now than find out later I've been wasting my time doing x. And thanks again for your other posts. I was going to ask a second question here about the alternative certification programs Teacher Ready, Teach-Now, and PGCEi, but I think I know enough, about them to make a decision, a good part from the information you've posted about them.
I do have one followup question do you think it's going to be valuable teaching this "ESL-math" over just teaching ESL perhaps in a better location? I can find these math jobs in certain Tier 2 cities at the moment, while if I just taught ESL English, I would be able to work literally anywhere in China, such as a bigger Tier 2 city or a Tier 1 city. Although I feel a little stupid typing this, as teaching math will be useful to me experience-wise if not on paper, and I'll feel better about myself not being 'just another English teacher' in China, and thus I'm not likely willing to give up these advantages even though there are cities I would probably rather live in (Chengdu, Shenzhen, maybe Beijing/Shanghai).
Reply
@NoWhy
In general only post certification experience matters, there are exception that depend what the pre certification experience is and how closely its related to your teaching field. I know several PE teachers who coached tertiary athletics and got full step for it once moving into K-12. I also know a theater teacher who directed and managed a LORT house theater for 6 years before it closed and she went into K-12 she got half steps for her theater experience. ESOL however is generally regarded as if it was poison. Too many ISs and recruiters scammed by ESOL backpacker teachers trying to talk their way into a real teaching job and a real school.
Their are professional ITs teaching at reputable ISs who dont have a credential at all, but those ITs are teaching in their academic field, and they had creditable experience before moving into IE.
It may not look the same at all. The third tier includes the 0 too the 75th percentile. There are some good third tier ISs (floaters), that are well run ISs. An actual IS with an international curriculum, with western leadership is going to do more for your resume than an international academy.
PGCEi, you will have a hard time getting teach now to accept your DS, and Teach Ready wont. The PGCEi is the only one you an do without a cooperating and eligible IS.
Whats "valuable"? This classroom ESOL Math is better than general ESOL. You can spin this into Math, add a qualification during your contract time and you can leverage it as your field experience.
In general only post certification experience matters, there are exception that depend what the pre certification experience is and how closely its related to your teaching field. I know several PE teachers who coached tertiary athletics and got full step for it once moving into K-12. I also know a theater teacher who directed and managed a LORT house theater for 6 years before it closed and she went into K-12 she got half steps for her theater experience. ESOL however is generally regarded as if it was poison. Too many ISs and recruiters scammed by ESOL backpacker teachers trying to talk their way into a real teaching job and a real school.
Their are professional ITs teaching at reputable ISs who dont have a credential at all, but those ITs are teaching in their academic field, and they had creditable experience before moving into IE.
It may not look the same at all. The third tier includes the 0 too the 75th percentile. There are some good third tier ISs (floaters), that are well run ISs. An actual IS with an international curriculum, with western leadership is going to do more for your resume than an international academy.
PGCEi, you will have a hard time getting teach now to accept your DS, and Teach Ready wont. The PGCEi is the only one you an do without a cooperating and eligible IS.
Whats "valuable"? This classroom ESOL Math is better than general ESOL. You can spin this into Math, add a qualification during your contract time and you can leverage it as your field experience.