It is possible for someone with little to no experience to get a job at a tier 1 school. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. Every school I have worked in I have seen it happen. Usually with positions that are hard to fill but sometimes just because the teacher wowed the admin.
Shekou international school would be tier one as far as package and school are concerned. The fact that your friend got a job but didn't get a visa proves my point but shows that the admin don't know the rules of the area. I don't know the Canadian international school of China (maybe Hong Kong?) but the reason for her not being hired could be that the admin didn't want the whole family working at the school or they found a better candidate or god knows what else...
There is nothing wrong with starting at a Tier 2 or 3 school. There is nothing wrong with liking it and staying there. I have friends who have spent their entire careers at a Tier2/3 school with no intention of moving and others who go from one Tier 3 school to the next because they have ideas about where they want to live or interview poorly..
My point... again... was simply for the OP to do a fair since they already paid the fee. As can be seen from other posts SA has a lot of schools not Tier 1. If they don't get something that interests them then go the psyguy route. The advantages are that they can to experience a fair, meet some people, 0 and see what is there. Once the labour laws of the EU start to kick in they can try that route with their leg up on the competition with their passport situation.
I wish them luck.
deleted
-
expatartist
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:56 pm
- Location: Asia
Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re
OP, you're finding it difficult to get EU residency? I think it depends on which country. Generally it takes 5 years or so. Much easier in the EU ex-UK.
Best bet: get a job on the strength of your passport, have some savings and rental housing sorted, get him residency, then he'll be employable. Build your careers locally. Stay ~5 years in country and he's got an EU passport.
Best bet: get a job on the strength of your passport, have some savings and rental housing sorted, get him residency, then he'll be employable. Build your careers locally. Stay ~5 years in country and he's got an EU passport.
Reply
@Glerky
Wel they can get their money back if they request so early enough. For the same reason that you are in a better negotiating position at the end of the month to buy a car than you are at the beginning of the month, when a a dealer and sales agent wants to meet their revenue and sales quotas. Your going to spend $1000 on a fair at least plus the fee, and recruiters arent going to be nearly as needy and desperate (they wont be at all). Even if they do get an offer its going to be less generous than early summer when they have more leverage.
Sure they will be rolling dice either way, but they can use loaded dice in their favor in the summer.
I do do agree with your position from your last post regarding benefits of a fair. The opportunity to network and interview in advance could be significant when those late WE vacancies appear in summer. It would be expensive to go as a couple to BKK or LON for a couple.
@sdakota
Get your spouse an EU passport and get QTS. I suggested you start now, depending on the country it could take 6 months.
It does depend on the country, most EU regions give PR at 5 years and citizenship at 7 years, citizenship by marriage is much less dependent on 'time", but again depends on the country.
@whoamI?
1st tier ISs that want to hire fluent English speakers, and have to/need to hire those with work permission in the EU.
Shekou IS is a 2nd tier IS Canadian IS could be a lower secondary or third tier IS, depending on location, none of them are elite tier, CIS (HK) could be considered lower 1st tier.
ITs who get denied visas for lack of work experience happen because the IS didnt want to make it happen. The requirements are submission of a resume, its only the ISs that have poor relationship with their labor/immigration ministry that have more rigorous requirements. A resume can say whatever you want it to say.
Yes, bottom tier ISs are bad, thats why they are in the bottom tier, there is nothing developmental about an adverse or punitive experience, unless you need to build more "character". Suffering professionally and personally is not a prerequisite for appreciation, nor is it conducive to growth of the individual. Its just an excuse lower tier ISs use to meet their staffing and recruiting requirements.
Some ITs dont work hard at all a third tier dawdle and head bauble can be a walking dead appointment. Even if your getting 20K RMB (for example) your making 10 times more than a professional local, and all you have to do is show up, and read/follow along in a text book. There are ITs at WE ISs that have tenure and dont do much more than follow the prescribed text.
Wel they can get their money back if they request so early enough. For the same reason that you are in a better negotiating position at the end of the month to buy a car than you are at the beginning of the month, when a a dealer and sales agent wants to meet their revenue and sales quotas. Your going to spend $1000 on a fair at least plus the fee, and recruiters arent going to be nearly as needy and desperate (they wont be at all). Even if they do get an offer its going to be less generous than early summer when they have more leverage.
Sure they will be rolling dice either way, but they can use loaded dice in their favor in the summer.
I do do agree with your position from your last post regarding benefits of a fair. The opportunity to network and interview in advance could be significant when those late WE vacancies appear in summer. It would be expensive to go as a couple to BKK or LON for a couple.
@sdakota
Get your spouse an EU passport and get QTS. I suggested you start now, depending on the country it could take 6 months.
It does depend on the country, most EU regions give PR at 5 years and citizenship at 7 years, citizenship by marriage is much less dependent on 'time", but again depends on the country.
@whoamI?
1st tier ISs that want to hire fluent English speakers, and have to/need to hire those with work permission in the EU.
Shekou IS is a 2nd tier IS Canadian IS could be a lower secondary or third tier IS, depending on location, none of them are elite tier, CIS (HK) could be considered lower 1st tier.
ITs who get denied visas for lack of work experience happen because the IS didnt want to make it happen. The requirements are submission of a resume, its only the ISs that have poor relationship with their labor/immigration ministry that have more rigorous requirements. A resume can say whatever you want it to say.
Yes, bottom tier ISs are bad, thats why they are in the bottom tier, there is nothing developmental about an adverse or punitive experience, unless you need to build more "character". Suffering professionally and personally is not a prerequisite for appreciation, nor is it conducive to growth of the individual. Its just an excuse lower tier ISs use to meet their staffing and recruiting requirements.
Some ITs dont work hard at all a third tier dawdle and head bauble can be a walking dead appointment. Even if your getting 20K RMB (for example) your making 10 times more than a professional local, and all you have to do is show up, and read/follow along in a text book. There are ITs at WE ISs that have tenure and dont do much more than follow the prescribed text.
Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re
Psyguy... To me getting the $350 (or whatever it is) might be worth the loss with one of the companies. Once you have a settled account it is so much more easier to update then to have to go through the procedure again. Not doing that is worth the money to me especially if you end up in a school you want to leave in 2 years. I think I said in an earlier post that going to a fair depended on the cost of getting there and staying there.
Shekou is a nonprofit small school with a fairly good rep a short ferry ride to HK. CISHK is a huge school with (at the moment) a bad rep right in the thick of the city. They both offer easy access to Hong Kong and honestly if I was offered both of these... same job... I would go for Shekou at this time. Just my thought.
Shekou is a nonprofit small school with a fairly good rep a short ferry ride to HK. CISHK is a huge school with (at the moment) a bad rep right in the thick of the city. They both offer easy access to Hong Kong and honestly if I was offered both of these... same job... I would go for Shekou at this time. Just my thought.
Reply
@Glerky
SA is $225, I can understand your position and where its coming from. I think I've done a poor job of communicating the difference between IT recruiting through the general stream, and early summer recruiting of a WE IS with an IT candidate who has a degree, license and most importantly an EU passport or working papers. There is nothing to organize with SA in this case. You are likely thinking for example that once all your confidential letters and references are available in SAs database that it will save you and your references so much time and effort, and normally that would be a viable benefit, it doesnt apply in this particular scenario. The IS is going to ask for a copy of 1 or 2 open letters and then they will offer you a contract.
Tier status is a longitudinal and historical assessment of an IS. CIS HK has some issues now at this moment a snapshot in time, but they are an insignificant inflection in the curve.
There is nothing shameful about being a second tier IS, its the 80-95 percentile.
SA is $225, I can understand your position and where its coming from. I think I've done a poor job of communicating the difference between IT recruiting through the general stream, and early summer recruiting of a WE IS with an IT candidate who has a degree, license and most importantly an EU passport or working papers. There is nothing to organize with SA in this case. You are likely thinking for example that once all your confidential letters and references are available in SAs database that it will save you and your references so much time and effort, and normally that would be a viable benefit, it doesnt apply in this particular scenario. The IS is going to ask for a copy of 1 or 2 open letters and then they will offer you a contract.
Tier status is a longitudinal and historical assessment of an IS. CIS HK has some issues now at this moment a snapshot in time, but they are an insignificant inflection in the curve.
There is nothing shameful about being a second tier IS, its the 80-95 percentile.
Re: Getting our ducks in a row (teaching couple question, re
@psyguy...
Not to belabour this point but I was going back to the OP comment of wanting China, Korea or Japan. I understand what you are saying about EU schools and passports and the hiring timeline of EU schools with the teachers ability to give short notice.
As far as HK in concerned... I would rate a number of schools ahead of CIS in the city including most of the ESF, Chinese IS, maybe HKIS. To me they were 2nd tier when I worked at a fourth tier school back in the day there. So current blip might have even lowered them more. This is simply my opinion on it and I haven't done a lot of research on HK as I have no desire to return there.
Not to belabour this point but I was going back to the OP comment of wanting China, Korea or Japan. I understand what you are saying about EU schools and passports and the hiring timeline of EU schools with the teachers ability to give short notice.
As far as HK in concerned... I would rate a number of schools ahead of CIS in the city including most of the ESF, Chinese IS, maybe HKIS. To me they were 2nd tier when I worked at a fourth tier school back in the day there. So current blip might have even lowered them more. This is simply my opinion on it and I haven't done a lot of research on HK as I have no desire to return there.
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @Glerky
>
> Wel they can get their money back if they request so early enough. For the
> same reason that you are in a better negotiating position at the end of the
> month to buy a car than you are at the beginning of the month, when a a
> dealer and sales agent wants to meet their revenue and sales quotas. Your
> going to spend $1000 on a fair at least plus the fee, and recruiters arent
> going to be nearly as needy and desperate (they wont be at all). Even if
> they do get an offer its going to be less generous than early summer when
> they have more leverage.
> Sure they will be rolling dice either way, but they can use loaded dice in
> their favor in the summer.
>
> I do do agree with your position from your last post regarding benefits of
> a fair. The opportunity to network and interview in advance could be
> significant when those late WE vacancies appear in summer. It would be
> expensive to go as a couple to BKK or LON for a couple.
>
> @sdakota
>
> Get your spouse an EU passport and get QTS. I suggested you start now,
> depending on the country it could take 6 months.
>
> It does depend on the country, most EU regions give PR at 5 years and
> citizenship at 7 years, citizenship by marriage is much less dependent on
> 'time", but again depends on the country.
>
> @whoamI?
>
> 1st tier ISs that want to hire fluent English speakers, and have to/need to
> hire those with work permission in the EU.
> Shekou IS is a 2nd tier IS Canadian IS could be a lower secondary or third
> tier IS, depending on location, none of them are elite tier, CIS (HK) could
> be considered lower 1st tier.
> ITs who get denied visas for lack of work experience happen because the IS
> didnt want to make it happen. The requirements are submission of a resume,
> its only the ISs that have poor relationship with their labor/immigration
> ministry that have more rigorous requirements. A resume can say whatever
> you want it to say.
>
> Yes, bottom tier ISs are bad, thats why they are in the bottom tier, there
> is nothing developmental about an adverse or punitive experience, unless
> you need to build more "character". Suffering professionally and
> personally is not a prerequisite for appreciation, nor is it conducive to
> growth of the individual. Its just an excuse lower tier ISs use to meet
> their staffing and recruiting requirements.
>
> Some ITs dont work hard at all a third tier dawdle and head bauble can be a
> walking dead appointment. Even if your getting 20K RMB (for example) your
> making 10 times more than a professional local, and all you have to do is
> show up, and read/follow along in a text book. There are ITs at WE ISs that
> have tenure and dont do much more than follow the prescribed text.
All I am saying is that if one can "survive" working in a bad place, then they can also survive working in a school that compensates fairly and considers teacher retention: McDonalds before stepping into the 5 star restaurant.
If you're offered a position in a higher level school, then consider taking the position. Know that you may be passing up an opportunity to test your limits as an educator.
> @Glerky
>
> Wel they can get their money back if they request so early enough. For the
> same reason that you are in a better negotiating position at the end of the
> month to buy a car than you are at the beginning of the month, when a a
> dealer and sales agent wants to meet their revenue and sales quotas. Your
> going to spend $1000 on a fair at least plus the fee, and recruiters arent
> going to be nearly as needy and desperate (they wont be at all). Even if
> they do get an offer its going to be less generous than early summer when
> they have more leverage.
> Sure they will be rolling dice either way, but they can use loaded dice in
> their favor in the summer.
>
> I do do agree with your position from your last post regarding benefits of
> a fair. The opportunity to network and interview in advance could be
> significant when those late WE vacancies appear in summer. It would be
> expensive to go as a couple to BKK or LON for a couple.
>
> @sdakota
>
> Get your spouse an EU passport and get QTS. I suggested you start now,
> depending on the country it could take 6 months.
>
> It does depend on the country, most EU regions give PR at 5 years and
> citizenship at 7 years, citizenship by marriage is much less dependent on
> 'time", but again depends on the country.
>
> @whoamI?
>
> 1st tier ISs that want to hire fluent English speakers, and have to/need to
> hire those with work permission in the EU.
> Shekou IS is a 2nd tier IS Canadian IS could be a lower secondary or third
> tier IS, depending on location, none of them are elite tier, CIS (HK) could
> be considered lower 1st tier.
> ITs who get denied visas for lack of work experience happen because the IS
> didnt want to make it happen. The requirements are submission of a resume,
> its only the ISs that have poor relationship with their labor/immigration
> ministry that have more rigorous requirements. A resume can say whatever
> you want it to say.
>
> Yes, bottom tier ISs are bad, thats why they are in the bottom tier, there
> is nothing developmental about an adverse or punitive experience, unless
> you need to build more "character". Suffering professionally and
> personally is not a prerequisite for appreciation, nor is it conducive to
> growth of the individual. Its just an excuse lower tier ISs use to meet
> their staffing and recruiting requirements.
>
> Some ITs dont work hard at all a third tier dawdle and head bauble can be a
> walking dead appointment. Even if your getting 20K RMB (for example) your
> making 10 times more than a professional local, and all you have to do is
> show up, and read/follow along in a text book. There are ITs at WE ISs that
> have tenure and dont do much more than follow the prescribed text.
All I am saying is that if one can "survive" working in a bad place, then they can also survive working in a school that compensates fairly and considers teacher retention: McDonalds before stepping into the 5 star restaurant.
If you're offered a position in a higher level school, then consider taking the position. Know that you may be passing up an opportunity to test your limits as an educator.
Discussion
@whoamI?
I see no value in suffering to make an ITs bones or pay your dues, unless that is an ITs only option.
I see no value in suffering to make an ITs bones or pay your dues, unless that is an ITs only option.