Been reading the forum for a long time, found so much valuable info here.
I wanted to ask about masters degrees and school leadership. I am planning to pursue a masters part-time (online), while teaching, to increase my opportunities the next time I hit the job market. I am a teacher of a specialist subject (4 years experience) and feel a bit pigeon-holed, as I am trained to teach all subjects, but was only considered for jobs in my specialization last time around.
Anyways, I would like to diversify my CV by doing a Masters in Educational Technology. I have been accepted to the program, but I am just concerned about pigeon-holing myself again. I would ultimately like to become a coordinator, VP, or director of a school etc, later in my career and I want to make a good investment in the masters degree. Would a masters in educational leadership be a more suitable choice, given my career aspiration, or would it be good to have a more diverse CV towards that end?
Finally, when looking at types of masters degrees, does it make a difference between an MA vs M.Ed in terms of marketability?
I am also curious to know what kind of pathways people have taken to become an educational leader in the international community. Any kind of advice or dialogue would be great.
Thank you
Pathway to School Leadership
Response
I do not know what your specialist subject is but "generalist" ITs really only exist at the primary level as an HRT. Qualifications such as QTS dont qualify you as a secondary generalist. Generally, in IE your qualified and marketable (in order) 1) What you have experience in, 2) What your degree/academic background is and 3) what your license/certification is.
Given your mixed goals in leadership you have a minor and major path. If you were focused primarily ina position as an ICT coordinator than the Masters in Ed.Tech would be marketable and youd have better utility. For the other position objectives AP/VP/DP/Principal/Director/HOS an M.Ed in Ed.Led has the most general utility. You will also want to pair this program with a leadership/administration certificate/qualification from the program you are pursuing. The most difficult aspect of working in leadership is breaking into it, and having a leadership qualification is going to increase your marketability. The other common pathway of moving into leadership is internally, starting as an IT and putting in your time at the same IS until after several years you move up in responsibility/TLR roles. At lower tier 3 ISs you can do this in 3 years or less.
I would advise you pursue your Masters at a institution that offers an IB Teaching and Learning Certificate. You can get an administration credential through The District of Columbia with any Masters, 2 years experience and a passing score on the Praxis exam.
An M.A. in what? Ed.Led degrees are almost exclusively M.Ed. programs MA degrees either an M.A.T. (Master of Arts in Teaching) programs are practitioner programs that focus on instructional delivery. M.A. Education programs tend to be certification/licensing programs for those without an academic education background. M.Ed programs are scholar/academic generalist programs that focus mostly on education as a system and construct.
M.Ed programs are for more common and prevalent, and there are those in the IE profession that believe non-M.Ed programs are inferior to other educational masters programs, though there is no data to support those except for popularity studies, and preference/prejudice.
An M.Ed has greater acceptance when applying and pursuing doctoral programs, and the M.Ed-Ed.Led pathway is the typical approved pathway to a leadership qualification/credential.
I obtained a doctorate in education and an administrator credential. I was a coordinator and a DP (AP/VP).
Given your mixed goals in leadership you have a minor and major path. If you were focused primarily ina position as an ICT coordinator than the Masters in Ed.Tech would be marketable and youd have better utility. For the other position objectives AP/VP/DP/Principal/Director/HOS an M.Ed in Ed.Led has the most general utility. You will also want to pair this program with a leadership/administration certificate/qualification from the program you are pursuing. The most difficult aspect of working in leadership is breaking into it, and having a leadership qualification is going to increase your marketability. The other common pathway of moving into leadership is internally, starting as an IT and putting in your time at the same IS until after several years you move up in responsibility/TLR roles. At lower tier 3 ISs you can do this in 3 years or less.
I would advise you pursue your Masters at a institution that offers an IB Teaching and Learning Certificate. You can get an administration credential through The District of Columbia with any Masters, 2 years experience and a passing score on the Praxis exam.
An M.A. in what? Ed.Led degrees are almost exclusively M.Ed. programs MA degrees either an M.A.T. (Master of Arts in Teaching) programs are practitioner programs that focus on instructional delivery. M.A. Education programs tend to be certification/licensing programs for those without an academic education background. M.Ed programs are scholar/academic generalist programs that focus mostly on education as a system and construct.
M.Ed programs are for more common and prevalent, and there are those in the IE profession that believe non-M.Ed programs are inferior to other educational masters programs, though there is no data to support those except for popularity studies, and preference/prejudice.
An M.Ed has greater acceptance when applying and pursuing doctoral programs, and the M.Ed-Ed.Led pathway is the typical approved pathway to a leadership qualification/credential.
I obtained a doctorate in education and an administrator credential. I was a coordinator and a DP (AP/VP).
Re: Pathway to School Leadership
Thank you very much for the prompt reply.
My specialist subject is Physical Education (PSPE) in PYP. I have definitely felt stigmatized as a "PE guy", despite having a breadth of interests and abilities.
The degree program that I am considering is a Masters of Arts in Learning and Technology. As a part of the program, I would be doing the IB Advanced Certificate in Teaching and Learning. I would be doing a thesis as part of the program. I was told by several people that if I want to pursue a PhD, that it is crucial to do a thesis in your Masters.
My specialist subject is Physical Education (PSPE) in PYP. I have definitely felt stigmatized as a "PE guy", despite having a breadth of interests and abilities.
The degree program that I am considering is a Masters of Arts in Learning and Technology. As a part of the program, I would be doing the IB Advanced Certificate in Teaching and Learning. I would be doing a thesis as part of the program. I was told by several people that if I want to pursue a PhD, that it is crucial to do a thesis in your Masters.
Response
Interests done really mean anything in IE. What has utility (in order) is:
1) What you have experience teaching.
2) What your academic background and degree is.
3) What your certification/license is.
Those are all that really matter, and they determine to recruiters and leadership what your "abilities are".
I wouldnt say its crucial. First you can do an Ed.D without a thesis at the masters level, and many taught Ph.D programs will accept you without a thesis. The thesis becomes crucial when yo are looking at research Ph.D programs, even then they are looking for evidence of research and ana1ytical ability and experience.
1) What you have experience teaching.
2) What your academic background and degree is.
3) What your certification/license is.
Those are all that really matter, and they determine to recruiters and leadership what your "abilities are".
I wouldnt say its crucial. First you can do an Ed.D without a thesis at the masters level, and many taught Ph.D programs will accept you without a thesis. The thesis becomes crucial when yo are looking at research Ph.D programs, even then they are looking for evidence of research and ana1ytical ability and experience.
Re: Pathway to School Leadership
To get out of the pigeonhole, don't wait until you are job hunting. Look around at your own school and see what needs doing. Notice it yourself, figure out a plan, and then volunteer to do it. You can take on existing tasks, and/or fill in holes that no one was doing anything about. Make yourself useful and indispensable, spread yourself out and prove yourself in a variety of tasks. Schools are places where there is always lots that needs doing, and admin love the people who grab hold and get things done. Often the internal vacancies are given to the person who was already doing the job, or something similar, long before they were given the title.
If you really want to lead schools in the future, get the Masters in Ed Leadership. Tech will limit you to techie types of things.
And no difference from where I'm sitting between an MA and an MEd, in terms of getting posts. The key thing is the masters itself.
If you really want to lead schools in the future, get the Masters in Ed Leadership. Tech will limit you to techie types of things.
And no difference from where I'm sitting between an MA and an MEd, in terms of getting posts. The key thing is the masters itself.
Response
I concur with @Sid that moving into leadership often begins with finding something that needs doing and taking charge, and even at times identifying a need and implementing a plan for addressing it. "Leading" can involve little more than asking other faculty for help and/or getting parents participation.
Re: Pathway to School Leadership
The advice is very useful and much appreciated. I am looking at other options now. My curriculum coordinator referred me to Endicott College and their 'International M.Ed' programs, specifically the International Education Administration M.Ed. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge about this school/program? I am Canadian and am not really familiar with American schools.
The advice about starting to find leadership opportunities in your own school is well-taken, thank you. It is something that I have been considering, but have been waiting for the opportune time. Sid, your advice is reassuring and I will go for it. I'm in my first year at my current school.
Finally, the school which has accepted me into the Learning and Technology Masters has an Educational Leadership program as well. Maybe this is not the forum for this kind of question, but is it worthwhile giving them a call and inquiring whether they will consider my admission into the other program? I fear by asking this question, I'm going to come across as immature and unprofessional.
The advice about starting to find leadership opportunities in your own school is well-taken, thank you. It is something that I have been considering, but have been waiting for the opportune time. Sid, your advice is reassuring and I will go for it. I'm in my first year at my current school.
Finally, the school which has accepted me into the Learning and Technology Masters has an Educational Leadership program as well. Maybe this is not the forum for this kind of question, but is it worthwhile giving them a call and inquiring whether they will consider my admission into the other program? I fear by asking this question, I'm going to come across as immature and unprofessional.
Reply
@XYZwords
Its an okay school, its a good school, but there is zero prestige or status value. If your not at an Ivy (Harvard, Yale, OxBridge, Sorbonne, NUS, etc), than Masters education degrees have equivalent value (unless the recruiter is an alum). The issues with Endicott are that its expensive, it doesnt offer an IB professional certificate, and the Int. Ed.Ld program doesnt directly offer an administrative license. You would be paying a significant amount ($16K) in cost as an international student for a private, liberal arts degree that has no significant value over far less expensive options, and that doesnt include travel, etc.
Lots of private Unis in the last decade have taken an M.Ed program put international in the title and included some courses with "international" in the course descriptions. M.Eds all have a core of courses that are: theories, statistics, research methods, and assessments that culminate in a professional project (thesis, etc). Thats usually 18-21 hours, leaving you about 5-6 courses for your concentration; management, finance and law course for Ed.Ld; Cultural differences, international curriculum, diverse learners for an international focused degree, etc.
Online school, you can call them and ask, they arent going to care if you ask. However, if the departments are separate or have separate admissions pathways/cohorts you may find your acceptance isnt transferable. If they are in the same department you can likely change the concentration focus, assuming the Ed.Ld program/cohort isnt filled. Ed.Ld programs are much more popular than technology programs. You may have to complete additional application steps if the Ed.Ld program offers/includes an admin credential.
Its an okay school, its a good school, but there is zero prestige or status value. If your not at an Ivy (Harvard, Yale, OxBridge, Sorbonne, NUS, etc), than Masters education degrees have equivalent value (unless the recruiter is an alum). The issues with Endicott are that its expensive, it doesnt offer an IB professional certificate, and the Int. Ed.Ld program doesnt directly offer an administrative license. You would be paying a significant amount ($16K) in cost as an international student for a private, liberal arts degree that has no significant value over far less expensive options, and that doesnt include travel, etc.
Lots of private Unis in the last decade have taken an M.Ed program put international in the title and included some courses with "international" in the course descriptions. M.Eds all have a core of courses that are: theories, statistics, research methods, and assessments that culminate in a professional project (thesis, etc). Thats usually 18-21 hours, leaving you about 5-6 courses for your concentration; management, finance and law course for Ed.Ld; Cultural differences, international curriculum, diverse learners for an international focused degree, etc.
Online school, you can call them and ask, they arent going to care if you ask. However, if the departments are separate or have separate admissions pathways/cohorts you may find your acceptance isnt transferable. If they are in the same department you can likely change the concentration focus, assuming the Ed.Ld program/cohort isnt filled. Ed.Ld programs are much more popular than technology programs. You may have to complete additional application steps if the Ed.Ld program offers/includes an admin credential.
-
sdakota
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
> @XYZwords
>
> Its an okay school, its a good school, but there is zero prestige or status
> value. If your not at an Ivy (Harvard, Yale, OxBridge, Sorbonne, NUS, etc),
> than Masters education degrees have equivalent value (unless the recruiter
> is an alum). The issues with Endicott are that its expensive, it doesnt
> offer an IB professional certificate, and the Int. Ed.Ld program doesnt
> directly offer an administrative license. You would be paying a significant
> amount ($16K) in cost as an international student for a private, liberal
> arts degree that has no significant value over far less expensive options,
> and that doesnt include travel, etc.
My girlfriend has been looking, and finding Ed.Ld programs with combined IB certification is proving difficult. Do you know of any specific schools?
> @XYZwords
>
> Its an okay school, its a good school, but there is zero prestige or status
> value. If your not at an Ivy (Harvard, Yale, OxBridge, Sorbonne, NUS, etc),
> than Masters education degrees have equivalent value (unless the recruiter
> is an alum). The issues with Endicott are that its expensive, it doesnt
> offer an IB professional certificate, and the Int. Ed.Ld program doesnt
> directly offer an administrative license. You would be paying a significant
> amount ($16K) in cost as an international student for a private, liberal
> arts degree that has no significant value over far less expensive options,
> and that doesnt include travel, etc.
My girlfriend has been looking, and finding Ed.Ld programs with combined IB certification is proving difficult. Do you know of any specific schools?
Reply
@sdakota
IB Professional Leadership Certificates are offered at:
Flinders University - AUS
Hong Kong Institute of Education - HK
University of London Institute of Education - UK
Royal Roads University - CAN
University of Alberta - CAN
Both Flinders Uni. and Uni Alberta offer M.Ed program, where the others offer M.A. programs. Flinders is specifically an M.Ed Ed.Ld program.
From a technical perspective teaching certificates have more utility than leadership certificates. With the advance teaching certificate having the most utility.
IB Professional Teaching Certificates are available from:
Adrian College
Bethel University
Bilkent University
Butler University
California State University—San Marcos
Curtin University
Durham University
Fairview University International College
Flinders University
George Mason University
Institute of Education University of London
Kent State University
Loyola University Chicago
Murdoch University
Oakland University
Royal Roads University
Tamagawa University
Universidad Camilo José Cela
University of Alberta
University of Bath
University of Bremen
University of British Columbia
IB Professional Leadership Certificates are offered at:
Flinders University - AUS
Hong Kong Institute of Education - HK
University of London Institute of Education - UK
Royal Roads University - CAN
University of Alberta - CAN
Both Flinders Uni. and Uni Alberta offer M.Ed program, where the others offer M.A. programs. Flinders is specifically an M.Ed Ed.Ld program.
From a technical perspective teaching certificates have more utility than leadership certificates. With the advance teaching certificate having the most utility.
IB Professional Teaching Certificates are available from:
Adrian College
Bethel University
Bilkent University
Butler University
California State University—San Marcos
Curtin University
Durham University
Fairview University International College
Flinders University
George Mason University
Institute of Education University of London
Kent State University
Loyola University Chicago
Murdoch University
Oakland University
Royal Roads University
Tamagawa University
Universidad Camilo José Cela
University of Alberta
University of Bath
University of Bremen
University of British Columbia
Re: Pathway to School Leadership
Melbourne University
http://education.unimelb.edu.au/study_w ... calaureate
http://education.unimelb.edu.au/study_w ... calaureate
Re: Pathway to School Leadership
As someone responsible for hiring administrators, by best advice is to get the masters in ed. leadership. If you are in a quality program, it will give you the background you need in law, finance, supervision, etc. to be a successful building administrator far more that a masters in technology.
I would not worry about the IB certification. You can get the information you need after the fact by attending IB conferences. I personally don't care about IB certification if you can show you know the program.
I concur with the others, get as many leadership experiences as you can while working on your masters.
I would not worry about the IB certification. You can get the information you need after the fact by attending IB conferences. I personally don't care about IB certification if you can show you know the program.
I concur with the others, get as many leadership experiences as you can while working on your masters.
Discussion
I wouldnt worry about IB certification IF you didnt want to worry about it. You can not get an IB Teaching Certificate at a conference, they are all (there is a narrow exception for the portfolio pathway) degree/Uni. programs. Since your going into a Masters program now, there is little incentive to choose a generic program and then potentially have to repeat a program or do another degree to get the IB Teaching Certificate. Why not accomplish two tasks with one program, and save some time and money in doing so.
The IB has recently modified their policies that make the IB Teaching Certificates much more valuable especially at DIP.
The IB has recently modified their policies that make the IB Teaching Certificates much more valuable especially at DIP.
Re: Pathway to School Leadership
I have now applied for a Masters in Educational Leadership and Management. As a part of the program I can also get the IBO Certificate in Leadership Practice. The deadline has passed for the program, but the faculty of education told me that it is still possible to get admission for this year. I hope to find out soon. Thank you all for the advice.
I am also curious about the career path that those of you with admin experience have taken, or those of you who are hoping to become a school leader in the future. Was it something that you planned from the beginning of your career, or something that you realized later on? What was the process like? Why did you decide to move into leadership? How did you prepare yourself for this role? Did you search for positions at fairs, or internally?
I am also curious about the career path that those of you with admin experience have taken, or those of you who are hoping to become a school leader in the future. Was it something that you planned from the beginning of your career, or something that you realized later on? What was the process like? Why did you decide to move into leadership? How did you prepare yourself for this role? Did you search for positions at fairs, or internally?
Re: Pathway to School Leadership
In my system, becoming a leader is on merit, and this is contested openly. I applied to become a faculty leader after about 12 years in the classroom, and because the reality was that at the time, I had been transferred to a teaching position which was in a location remote from my home, and was sick of the driving. (Yep, the reason was that simple: I had no control over which school I could teach in, but could seek a promotion in a school closer to home.) It is unheard of to win such promotions without relevant experience. Ditto for any promotion, up to principal and beyond. Any large system operating many schools should provide a similar route for its staff.
This is very different from my experiences in some privately owned international schools, where roles appeared often to be allocated without consultation (even with the teacher awarded the role) and also changed, apparently at the whim of the owners. I have found that extensive leadership experience in these organisations seems to have disadvantaged me on return to my home country. Be circumspect about taking on leadership experiences in such places, even if the school appears to be a high quality one, because the reputation of the other schools could well devalue your experience.
I believe our career goals shift constantly as a result of unforeseen events and experiences. I was extremely happy as a classroom teacher, enjoyed my classes and opportunities to mentor pre-service teachers and take lead type roles in events around my school. In retrospect every one of these experiences was fundamental to becoming an effective, empathetic educational leader later. The time I was a classroom teacher was concurrent with a period of my life when I was extremely busy domestically with very young children at the same time as helping sick, aging parents, who eventually, inevitably died. No one can 'plan' for how busy these stages of life can be.
Initially I was also very happy as a faculty head and coordinator, but again after more than 10 years in the job, I looked forward to broadening my horizons, and have been fortunate to have had these opportunities.
I suspect only very insecure people plan their life goals and then stick single-mindedly with their ambition. But I also believe there is learning in every experience, at every level. By all means, aim to become an administrator. But meanwhile, live fully and seize the opportunity to try out new projects, because every joy, drama, crises and success prepares you for the next stage of your career, whatever it will be.
This is very different from my experiences in some privately owned international schools, where roles appeared often to be allocated without consultation (even with the teacher awarded the role) and also changed, apparently at the whim of the owners. I have found that extensive leadership experience in these organisations seems to have disadvantaged me on return to my home country. Be circumspect about taking on leadership experiences in such places, even if the school appears to be a high quality one, because the reputation of the other schools could well devalue your experience.
I believe our career goals shift constantly as a result of unforeseen events and experiences. I was extremely happy as a classroom teacher, enjoyed my classes and opportunities to mentor pre-service teachers and take lead type roles in events around my school. In retrospect every one of these experiences was fundamental to becoming an effective, empathetic educational leader later. The time I was a classroom teacher was concurrent with a period of my life when I was extremely busy domestically with very young children at the same time as helping sick, aging parents, who eventually, inevitably died. No one can 'plan' for how busy these stages of life can be.
Initially I was also very happy as a faculty head and coordinator, but again after more than 10 years in the job, I looked forward to broadening my horizons, and have been fortunate to have had these opportunities.
I suspect only very insecure people plan their life goals and then stick single-mindedly with their ambition. But I also believe there is learning in every experience, at every level. By all means, aim to become an administrator. But meanwhile, live fully and seize the opportunity to try out new projects, because every joy, drama, crises and success prepares you for the next stage of your career, whatever it will be.