Hi all. I hope to hear about hiring age limits (if and when any) from teachers who worked or are working for international schools in Thailand. I did a 3-years TESOL teaching stint there, but this was mostly in university settings. I was, however, privately tutoring several students (in French) from one of top BKK schools (IB system), so I'm familiar with some of the curriculum and methods they use.
I turned 60 while in Thailand, and this closed doors with some of the top government unis, especially in Bangkok. I didn't have sufficient qualifications for top international schools at the time, so I didn't test the waters there. I'm back teaching in the US currently, getting K12-certified and so on...
Everything else being equal (i.e. acceptable qualifications), would age be a deal-killer with schools such as The Bangkok Patana School or the American International School?
Thanks in advance for any accurate info,
S.
Age limit (60+) in Thai international schools?
Re: Age limit (60+) in Thai international schools?
Are you aware there is a whole blog on this theme, a week or so ago? https://internationalschoolsreviewdiscu ... d-support/
Although a recent poster on this blog complains that many of the entries entries were out of date, sadly the tone and experiences many people shared have matched my own experiences these past three years. As a result, I will no longer be wasting my time applying for schools in some of the countries the blog mentions, including Thailand. We all have our reasons; mine is that I am no longer interested in lowering my personal standards of what it means to educate. Now that I am maturing nicely, I only want to be where I can make a serious contribution, and this could as soon be a disadvantaged school in my own country as one overseas.
Therefore, I recommend the blog. Best wishes if a school recognises what you have to offer, but don't go begging, I suggest you are worth more than that.
Although a recent poster on this blog complains that many of the entries entries were out of date, sadly the tone and experiences many people shared have matched my own experiences these past three years. As a result, I will no longer be wasting my time applying for schools in some of the countries the blog mentions, including Thailand. We all have our reasons; mine is that I am no longer interested in lowering my personal standards of what it means to educate. Now that I am maturing nicely, I only want to be where I can make a serious contribution, and this could as soon be a disadvantaged school in my own country as one overseas.
Therefore, I recommend the blog. Best wishes if a school recognises what you have to offer, but don't go begging, I suggest you are worth more than that.
Response
Yes age is going to be a limiting and restricting factor, combined with the recency of your K-12 teaching career. Nothing before being certified is going to count much if at all. Its going to be painted over as ESOL, and then dismissed. Essentially your an intern class teacher, you dont have 2 years K-12 post certification experience. You arent marketable to top tier ISs like ISB.
Discrimination including age discrimination is very alive and not uncommon. You either need to be an admin or you need to be seated in your last out position by your mid 50's so that you can retire out in your 60s and qualify for a pension. Your options now are either find an IS that will appoint you to a leadership role or start your own language school.
Discrimination including age discrimination is very alive and not uncommon. You either need to be an admin or you need to be seated in your last out position by your mid 50's so that you can retire out in your 60s and qualify for a pension. Your options now are either find an IS that will appoint you to a leadership role or start your own language school.
Re: Age limit (60+) in Thai international schools?
Hi Suzie and PsyGuy.
Suzie, yes, I looked at the blog. Thanks for the suggestion. When dealing with top IB schools in Bangkok, lower standards are not a problem; I was tutoring students from some of these schools, and the standards (and accompanying punishing workloads in some cases) are very high. I know it's a common complaint for Thailand, but my experience is that often, there, the standards are what the teacher makes them. In many places, in the uni circuit at least, they give you freedom to teach as you please, and even to design your own courses; I liked it there.
Regarding qualifications (PsyGuy), it's another matter, of course, and so the question should be read as "everything else being equal", i.e. would a well-qualified teacher over 60 get a job? My question is very narrow insofar as I'd like to hear from people on the ground. My experience in Thailand is that nothing is universal in the way rules are applied. In the government university circuit, you can work in a large provincial uni--as I did--with many teachers well over into their sixties, and nobody minds: work permits are not a problem either, notwithstanding abundant erroneous information to the contrary.
In Bangkok, things are different; some private unis have 55 or even 45 age limits for foreign teachers (35 is not rare for Thai teachers). When it comes to large unis and rajabhats (tech universities), some have a 60 no-hire policy because it is Thai retirement age and they stick to it; they could bend it if they wanted, but they mostly don't want to deal with the paperwork. One thing that is different in Thailand is that age restrictions are not illegal, and therefore are not secret within a department or an institution, and are often mentioned in job ads. I haven't seen these in Intnl school ads though.
S.
Suzie, yes, I looked at the blog. Thanks for the suggestion. When dealing with top IB schools in Bangkok, lower standards are not a problem; I was tutoring students from some of these schools, and the standards (and accompanying punishing workloads in some cases) are very high. I know it's a common complaint for Thailand, but my experience is that often, there, the standards are what the teacher makes them. In many places, in the uni circuit at least, they give you freedom to teach as you please, and even to design your own courses; I liked it there.
Regarding qualifications (PsyGuy), it's another matter, of course, and so the question should be read as "everything else being equal", i.e. would a well-qualified teacher over 60 get a job? My question is very narrow insofar as I'd like to hear from people on the ground. My experience in Thailand is that nothing is universal in the way rules are applied. In the government university circuit, you can work in a large provincial uni--as I did--with many teachers well over into their sixties, and nobody minds: work permits are not a problem either, notwithstanding abundant erroneous information to the contrary.
In Bangkok, things are different; some private unis have 55 or even 45 age limits for foreign teachers (35 is not rare for Thai teachers). When it comes to large unis and rajabhats (tech universities), some have a 60 no-hire policy because it is Thai retirement age and they stick to it; they could bend it if they wanted, but they mostly don't want to deal with the paperwork. One thing that is different in Thailand is that age restrictions are not illegal, and therefore are not secret within a department or an institution, and are often mentioned in job ads. I haven't seen these in Intnl school ads though.
S.
Reply
@Seattle75
My answer doesnt change with the clarification. You need to be seated/appointed in your last out position by your 50s. There are always exceptions but IE has a short learning career curve. Once you reach 10 years of experience and a Masters degree further qualifications and experience have significant diminishing returns, and there are plenty of ITs in their 30s and 40s. Some of the issues expressed regarding older ITs include:
1) Mortality, in that the probability of passing greatly increases.
2) Increased cost or inability to insure.
3) Lack of retirement options, or inability to meet retirement guidelines.
4) Visa/work permit difficulty.
5) Reference isnt as important
6) Ego
My answer doesnt change with the clarification. You need to be seated/appointed in your last out position by your 50s. There are always exceptions but IE has a short learning career curve. Once you reach 10 years of experience and a Masters degree further qualifications and experience have significant diminishing returns, and there are plenty of ITs in their 30s and 40s. Some of the issues expressed regarding older ITs include:
1) Mortality, in that the probability of passing greatly increases.
2) Increased cost or inability to insure.
3) Lack of retirement options, or inability to meet retirement guidelines.
4) Visa/work permit difficulty.
5) Reference isnt as important
6) Ego
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Vernacular
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:49 am
Re: Age limit (60+) in Thai international schools?
Cut off point at most international schools (in Thailand) is sixty. Only exceptions are if you're already 'in' and teaching a subject where it's very difficult to find staff. Suggest subbing if you're really keen. Otherwise, it's EFL work in Thai institutions - and probably outside Bkk.
Comment
@Vernacular
Or more commonly youre in leadership and you can push through your own paperwork. In many regions you can employ older professionals beyond the cap, but to do so the institution has to be willing and motivated to do so and if your in leadership you can issue a directive to make it happen.
Or more commonly youre in leadership and you can push through your own paperwork. In many regions you can employ older professionals beyond the cap, but to do so the institution has to be willing and motivated to do so and if your in leadership you can issue a directive to make it happen.
Re: Age limit (60+) in Thai international schools?
Vernacular wrote:
> Cut off point at most international schools (in Thailand) is sixty. Only
> exceptions are if you're already 'in' and teaching a subject where it's
> very difficult to find staff. Suggest subbing if you're really keen.
> Otherwise, it's EFL work in Thai institutions - and probably outside Bkk.
Thanks for the age info. It was not a problem for me making a living in BKK, except that the best uni jobs were closed. "Best" doesn't mean pay, but rather 15 hours of teaching and a few hours of office presence a week. Private unis tend to have ridiculously bad conditions (we're still talking ESL). An over-60 teacher can easily find employment with a language school and get work all year long. It still means a lot of work-hours (at ~300/h) average, to pull in 50-60K baht.
F.
> Cut off point at most international schools (in Thailand) is sixty. Only
> exceptions are if you're already 'in' and teaching a subject where it's
> very difficult to find staff. Suggest subbing if you're really keen.
> Otherwise, it's EFL work in Thai institutions - and probably outside Bkk.
Thanks for the age info. It was not a problem for me making a living in BKK, except that the best uni jobs were closed. "Best" doesn't mean pay, but rather 15 hours of teaching and a few hours of office presence a week. Private unis tend to have ridiculously bad conditions (we're still talking ESL). An over-60 teacher can easily find employment with a language school and get work all year long. It still means a lot of work-hours (at ~300/h) average, to pull in 50-60K baht.
F.