I was wondering what teaching is like in the UK. Its never been on my list due to the bad things I have heard about the students, but are they really as bad as people say?
If I were to consider the UK where would the best locations be? I do not require a urban centre like London, just a safe place for my family.
Thanks.
Teaching in the UK
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JeremyIrons
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:30 am
Re: Teaching in the UK
State or private? State, awful! Kids who want nothing to do with education, heads who just about figure or league tables and constant paperwork just in case Ofsted visits. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Private, no idea.
As for living in the UK, the weather is terminally awful but it has all the benefits on a first world country.
Private, no idea.
As for living in the UK, the weather is terminally awful but it has all the benefits on a first world country.
Re: Teaching in the UK
Are you sure all the kids don't want anything to do with education? I worked in the UK and had some lovely students who worked hard. I had some bad ones, too. My head was nothing like you are describing. Where were you in the UK?
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JeremyIrons
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:30 am
Re: Teaching in the UK
Well I suppose it depends on where you are. If you're lucky enough to get a leafy suburb then that's fine but teach in one of the many 'disadvantaged areas' of the UK and it's a different story.
But, even if you do get one of the leafy suburbs, most of your time is still going to be spent making charts and graphs for SLT and filling in countless forms and reports. There's a reason over a quarter of new UK teachers leave after the first year. It's a soul crushing and poorly remunerated job.
But, even if you do get one of the leafy suburbs, most of your time is still going to be spent making charts and graphs for SLT and filling in countless forms and reports. There's a reason over a quarter of new UK teachers leave after the first year. It's a soul crushing and poorly remunerated job.
Re: Teaching in the UK
Primary or High School?
I think primary teachers have can have a good time in the UK's "education system," but as a high-school teacher, let me tell you, it is simply apocalyptic.
I would not allow my dog in the "school" I was at but the poor poms actually have to put their kids in these places!
I lasted a little under two years in it and that was a pretty good stretch as my predecessor had only made it three months. I just lived from bell to bell so that I could avail myself to the holidays and see as much of Europe as possible.
Without exception, I hated every minute I was at the place. I remember counting down from 84 days on my calendar on the way out.
The wage was very good at the place and they did put me on full-time; however, this was back when the pound was strong (almost worth two euro in the early noughties) so the wage for a junior teacher was very hard to beat. Now with the pound like it is I don't know if the remuneration will make it worthwhile.
So, if you are primary it could be worth a shot. But forget secondary. The reason that they will employ foreigners in these jobs is simply because the locals won't touch them.
I think primary teachers have can have a good time in the UK's "education system," but as a high-school teacher, let me tell you, it is simply apocalyptic.
I would not allow my dog in the "school" I was at but the poor poms actually have to put their kids in these places!
I lasted a little under two years in it and that was a pretty good stretch as my predecessor had only made it three months. I just lived from bell to bell so that I could avail myself to the holidays and see as much of Europe as possible.
Without exception, I hated every minute I was at the place. I remember counting down from 84 days on my calendar on the way out.
The wage was very good at the place and they did put me on full-time; however, this was back when the pound was strong (almost worth two euro in the early noughties) so the wage for a junior teacher was very hard to beat. Now with the pound like it is I don't know if the remuneration will make it worthwhile.
So, if you are primary it could be worth a shot. But forget secondary. The reason that they will employ foreigners in these jobs is simply because the locals won't touch them.
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Rhysboy
Re: Teaching in the UK
It very much depends on the school.
I taught a fairly average comprehensive school for 2 years. Student behaviour ranged from good to being sworn at and verbally abused on a daily basis. Of course there are better (and worse) schools where student behaviour can either make your life easy or a living hell.
The schools that are employing overseas teachers are only doing so because there can't get teachers in the UK to teach there so they must be truly awful, especially if you consider how many unemployed teachers there are in the UK.
I taught a fairly average comprehensive school for 2 years. Student behaviour ranged from good to being sworn at and verbally abused on a daily basis. Of course there are better (and worse) schools where student behaviour can either make your life easy or a living hell.
The schools that are employing overseas teachers are only doing so because there can't get teachers in the UK to teach there so they must be truly awful, especially if you consider how many unemployed teachers there are in the UK.
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jessiejames
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:00 pm
Re: Teaching in the UK
I can only echo what others have said about it depending so much on the school you work at.
I worked at a state school in a very disadvantaged area. However, my headteacher was inspirational and really cared about the staff and children. My colleagues were excellent. The children certainly were not all perfectly behaved - but poor behaviour was very well managed, and there were lots of lovely, hard working children too.
It was a very large school so we did have some overseas teachers working there. Sadly the UK teachers that applied for positions were not always amazing. It was inner London, so salaries started at around £28,000 / $43,000.
I was lucky though... this is certainly not always the case. I have a great deal of friends who are happily teaching in the UK, but have seen my fair share of stressed out, miserable teachers too.
If you choose to work at an independent school (fee-paying) instead, there are literally thousands to choose from, with salaries varying by quite a lot. There are not a huge amount of truly international schools in the UK, most are based in London, but there are a few outside London worth considering too like ACS in Surrey.
I worked at a state school in a very disadvantaged area. However, my headteacher was inspirational and really cared about the staff and children. My colleagues were excellent. The children certainly were not all perfectly behaved - but poor behaviour was very well managed, and there were lots of lovely, hard working children too.
It was a very large school so we did have some overseas teachers working there. Sadly the UK teachers that applied for positions were not always amazing. It was inner London, so salaries started at around £28,000 / $43,000.
I was lucky though... this is certainly not always the case. I have a great deal of friends who are happily teaching in the UK, but have seen my fair share of stressed out, miserable teachers too.
If you choose to work at an independent school (fee-paying) instead, there are literally thousands to choose from, with salaries varying by quite a lot. There are not a huge amount of truly international schools in the UK, most are based in London, but there are a few outside London worth considering too like ACS in Surrey.
Re: Teaching in the UK
I am interested in Secondary. What about Jersey or Guernsey? The reason I asked is because my wife would be allowed to work in the UK because of her ancestry.
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Rhysboy
Re: Teaching in the UK
It is difficult to find work at the good schools because people teachers don't tend to leave (dead man's shoes). Many rural areas are highly sought after because of the quality of life.
Poorer schools have high turnover, and these tend to be in inner city areas. They come with the higher cost of living too.
Poorer schools have high turnover, and these tend to be in inner city areas. They come with the higher cost of living too.
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Sherhazade
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:49 pm
Re: Teaching in the UK
Quality varies greatly, as others have noted, and it may be very hard to tell without a visit to the school. I was lucky when I interviewed several years ago to have back to back interviews, one on each side of the city, and the visit told me everything I needed to know about where I wanted to work. Teaching a one off lesson is common as part of the interview, and with a whole host of upper management in the room, at the school I later declined an offer from, students were chatting and not getting on with anything. No one spoke to me from the staff and I was made to wait, for someone who later never turned up, in the lobby for ages. Fast forward to the second school, the entire department made sure to stop by the staff room to greet me and the behavior was good in the short lesson I taught, while not being obviously all the best students.
I'll echo that there will be a range of behavior. I had classes I adored whose worst behavior was getting loud because of over enthusiasm, and classes that were fairly openly hostile to me attempting to get work done. If your wife can get a visa you can be much more choosy about where you will go because you won't have to worry about sponsorship. I can't speak to the experience in independent schools at all. Seeking out some info from current teachers about managements response to behavior can be a good indicator of how you will fare in that area. You will probably end up with a big range of grade levels to teach, and unlike the US schools I have been in, no guaranteed planning each day, more like 3 per week, plus the pastoral care part of being a form tutor.
What subject area are you in? What area are you interested in?
I'll echo that there will be a range of behavior. I had classes I adored whose worst behavior was getting loud because of over enthusiasm, and classes that were fairly openly hostile to me attempting to get work done. If your wife can get a visa you can be much more choosy about where you will go because you won't have to worry about sponsorship. I can't speak to the experience in independent schools at all. Seeking out some info from current teachers about managements response to behavior can be a good indicator of how you will fare in that area. You will probably end up with a big range of grade levels to teach, and unlike the US schools I have been in, no guaranteed planning each day, more like 3 per week, plus the pastoral care part of being a form tutor.
What subject area are you in? What area are you interested in?
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Teaching in the UK
Key advice - read the OFSTED report for any prospective school you might work at. I worked at a school that was in serious weakness and had HMI (Her Majesty's Inspectors) in every couple of months. It was very hard work to get going at the start mainly because the students had gotten use to teachers leaving, and so behaviour was designed to make them leave sooner rather than later. However, in the end, I had a brilliant experience and enjoyed my time teaching there. I am still in touch with former colleagues and students.
Re: Teaching in the UK
I can teach any math or science...but prefer math. I still get headhunters sending me emails ( I must have registered with them when starting out) for UK schools but I imagine those are for desperate schools. I don't understand the one off lesson thing, unless they chose a random topic when you are there. Even that defeats the purpose of prepping.
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Sherhazade
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:49 pm
Re: Teaching in the UK
I think you'll easily find a math position and be able to not fret much over the quality of schools. I think some remote areas need to recruit because they don't have the population locally to fill all roles, it can depend otherwise. My former school has good Ofstead reports, but not many applications and they aren't sure why.
For a one off lesson they'd tell you what to prepare ahead of time. For example I had a 1 hour lesson on a GCSE topic for year 10 at one school and 15 minutes on subject specific terminology with year 7 at another.
For a one off lesson they'd tell you what to prepare ahead of time. For example I had a 1 hour lesson on a GCSE topic for year 10 at one school and 15 minutes on subject specific terminology with year 7 at another.
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Rhysboy
Re: Teaching in the UK
Sherhazade wrote:
> I think you'll easily find a math position and be able to not fret much
> over the quality of schools. I think some remote areas need to recruit
> because they don't have the population locally to fill all roles, it can
> depend otherwise. My former school has good Ofstead reports, but not many
> applications and they aren't sure why.
>
> For a one off lesson they'd tell you what to prepare ahead of time. For
> example I had a 1 hour lesson on a GCSE topic for year 10 at one school and
> 15 minutes on subject specific terminology with year 7 at another.
I think you'll find that it is the opposite - remote/rural areas haver fewer schools and therefore fewer positions available. Behaviour tends to be slightly better at these schools so teachers tend not to leave (which means fewer openings).
Teaching a one off lesson is commonplace in the UK. You will be sent details of what the students are studying and be expected to plan a lesson based on that. It is very difficult to do as you don't know the school or the students. You should be given a good class but at the school I worked at, I was given a class that was a real handful!
> I think you'll easily find a math position and be able to not fret much
> over the quality of schools. I think some remote areas need to recruit
> because they don't have the population locally to fill all roles, it can
> depend otherwise. My former school has good Ofstead reports, but not many
> applications and they aren't sure why.
>
> For a one off lesson they'd tell you what to prepare ahead of time. For
> example I had a 1 hour lesson on a GCSE topic for year 10 at one school and
> 15 minutes on subject specific terminology with year 7 at another.
I think you'll find that it is the opposite - remote/rural areas haver fewer schools and therefore fewer positions available. Behaviour tends to be slightly better at these schools so teachers tend not to leave (which means fewer openings).
Teaching a one off lesson is commonplace in the UK. You will be sent details of what the students are studying and be expected to plan a lesson based on that. It is very difficult to do as you don't know the school or the students. You should be given a good class but at the school I worked at, I was given a class that was a real handful!
Response
It greatly depends on the school (independent/maintained) and the location and a whole bunch of factors. Its like picking any western country and asking for a generalization of education/teaching in the country.
Independent/Private schools tend to pay better and being a foreigner is essentially an IS, with a local hire package. Most domestic schools dont provide an OSH package meaning no housing or relocation. You will be likely to get a flight in country and a few days in a hotel to settle and find a place to live. The students are generally better behaved but spoiled/entitled bats can be as bad as thugs at an at risk school. Just different types of problems. More at risk schools tend to have poorer behavior, and more production (documentation work), but the expectations are much lower. You can pretty much direct teach and be done, no one is going to expect high performance scores.
A one off lesson is a demonstration lesson, you are emailed the subject of the lesson and you present it to a group of students with several members of the school leadership.
Which raises another issue, in that many maintained/independent schools will essentially require a F2F interview and demo lesson, as well as a long application for each and every position. Many of them dont do Skype interviews.
How "bad" can they get? I find bad is subjective, if your an inner city public school teacher from Compton, or Harlem, you will probably be happy in even the worst UK maintained/regulated school. Students may use profanity with you, but you wont be assaulted and wont have to worry about being shot on your way out of the school. If you have been the Manhattan Prep Independent school teacher than there are a number of extremely well regarded independent schools with very nice compensation packages (for a teacher) available.
Westminster and "The City" of London (the Mile) have the best schools on average, but schools affiliated with a university such as Oxford, etc tend to be good indicators of positive experience.
Independent/Private schools tend to pay better and being a foreigner is essentially an IS, with a local hire package. Most domestic schools dont provide an OSH package meaning no housing or relocation. You will be likely to get a flight in country and a few days in a hotel to settle and find a place to live. The students are generally better behaved but spoiled/entitled bats can be as bad as thugs at an at risk school. Just different types of problems. More at risk schools tend to have poorer behavior, and more production (documentation work), but the expectations are much lower. You can pretty much direct teach and be done, no one is going to expect high performance scores.
A one off lesson is a demonstration lesson, you are emailed the subject of the lesson and you present it to a group of students with several members of the school leadership.
Which raises another issue, in that many maintained/independent schools will essentially require a F2F interview and demo lesson, as well as a long application for each and every position. Many of them dont do Skype interviews.
How "bad" can they get? I find bad is subjective, if your an inner city public school teacher from Compton, or Harlem, you will probably be happy in even the worst UK maintained/regulated school. Students may use profanity with you, but you wont be assaulted and wont have to worry about being shot on your way out of the school. If you have been the Manhattan Prep Independent school teacher than there are a number of extremely well regarded independent schools with very nice compensation packages (for a teacher) available.
Westminster and "The City" of London (the Mile) have the best schools on average, but schools affiliated with a university such as Oxford, etc tend to be good indicators of positive experience.