Kuwait

[Climberman]

I keep hearing that the main reason to go to Kuwait is the money. Yet I see that the salaries do not seem that high - mid to high 30's to low 40's. Is the cost of living so low that you can save a lot on that mediocre salary?

Thanks for any replies.

[vandsmith]

if you're thinking kuwait, why not the UAE? a lot better lifestyle if you ask me for about the same money (or more)....as a rule over here, you should be able to save half your salary, depending on your preferences/nightlife needs.

good luck!

v.

[chilagringa]

I was offered a gig in Kuwait once at one of the big schools. I think they offered about 3300 dollars a month or something, which is about 40k. But that was tax free, with housing and utilities paid for. I assume I would have saved a lot.

[shadowjack]

If you tutored, you could save a lot. If you shopped, ate out at restaurants, joined the beach club, you wouldn't. Apart from the aforementioned, there isn't a lot to do in Kuwait, unless you use your $$ to travel.

At my former school the salary hasn't changed in over 10 years, but the benefits are worse.

[PsyGuy]

@Climberman

There is better coin in the ME such as the Kingdom, etc. but essentially yes for several reasons:

1) You get a housing/living allowance, which frees up much of your income for discretionary use or savings.

2) The income is tax free.

3) Thee is little to spend your money on, assuming you dont travel outside the region.

4) Assuming you live on the economy the cost of living is very low.

[Climberman]

Maybe I am being unrealistic. Right now, in the U.S. I save 18,000 on my own with another 7000 in a pension plan.

At both of the China schools - Tier 3 - I worked at I went home with 30,000 - 34,000 per year after paying 22% taxes. Even more with Malaysia - Tier 2.
And I traveled out of country every holiday - about 4-5 per year.

To me, saving 15,000 is peanuts.

Do others think 15,000 USD savings is a good deal?

Thanks for any replies.

[wrldtrvlr123]

Climberman wrote:
> Maybe I am being unrealistic. Right now, in the U.S. I save 18,000 on my own with
> another 7000 in a pension plan.
>
> At both of the China schools - Tier 3 - I worked at I went home with 30,000 - 34,000
> per year after paying 22% taxes. Even more with Malaysia - Tier 2.
> And I traveled out of country every holiday - about 4-5 per year.
>
> To me, saving 15,000 is peanuts.
>
> Do others think 15,000 USD savings is a good deal?
>
> Thanks for any replies.
-----------------------------------
I guess it all depends on your situation. My wife and I were both teaching in FL (with me as a brand new teacher) and basically breaking even (with house/car payment etc). We took our first overseas jobs in Egypt making a lot less in salary but saving my whole salary ($18K), mainly due to the lower cost of living and no car, no rent etc. We also were able to travel and see sights that we never could have had we still been in FL and so it was a great situation for us.

If you are saving $18K and are very happy with your current lifestyle then it makes no sense for you to take a position unless it leaves you better off financially or it puts you in parts of the world that you really want to experience (or ideally, both). Right now it seems there really is no driving force for you to really pursue an overseas gig. Maybe that will change if a position/school/country really captures your attention and imagination and you can't see yourself happy until you are out there.

That happened with us when we were back in the states for 2 years in between int'l gigs and we knew that we would never stop having that itch until we were back out there. We are now in Europe and enjoying our life, but will still be itching until we get back to Japan which is where we feel the most at "home" for some reason.

If you don't have (not just you but, in general) some driving force (financial, cultural, spiritual, legal, romantic) pushing you or pulling you overseas then you probably shouldn't go yet.

[bbgun25]

In Kuwait right now at one of the big, reputable International Schools. The pay schedule here was similar to what it was back in the States at public school. The benefits (apartment, airfare, tax-free salary, etc...) really do help out. Kuwait is not that cheap however. My wife and I spend between $175-$250 per week on groceries and we hardly go out. However, there are cheaper places you can buy groceries, but we want certain products that cannot be found in local markets. There is another issue however with the rise of the $ in comparison to the Kuwaiti Dinar. At most schools here you will be paid in Dinars, and therefore lose money anytime the currency takes a hit. We have lost several (yes, several) thousand dollars because we were paid in local currency and not in dollars. A gamble that you have to take. But overall, you CAN save money here, not because the salary is high, but because there is a limited amount of things to do, which means that you will be close to home on most nights and weekends. Hope this helps.

[PsyGuy]

@Climberman

I concur with @wrldtrvlr123, many ITs are happy to save $15K plus.

[senator]

And that, unfortunately, is why a lot of IT's will be scrambling when they get near retirement age. A couple that saves only 15k- 18k - even without kids - is on track to have an unpleasant surprise down the road. And a lot of the IT's I worked with over the years couldn't even save that.

Guys, you have to take care of yourselves because the schools won't.

@Climberman

Good for you. Smart move looking for a school where you can save a significant amount. That's the only reason for teachers - who aren't 20 somethings - to go overseas.

And money is the only reason international schools exist. Parents work overseas because they get more money and perks. Why should teachers work for peanuts?

[PsyGuy]

@senator

Thats why ITs either need a really cheap region such as S.A. or they need to be in the WE by 50 to collect a pension.

[chilagringa]

senator wrote:
> Good for you. Smart move looking for a school where you can save a significant amount.
> That's the only reason for teachers - who aren't 20 somethings - to go overseas.
>

Senator, I think that you are assuming other people have the same priorities as you.

The happiest time of my life was when I was living on a couple hundred bucks a month in a truly impoverished country. Of course, I realize that I, unlike most of the locals, had access to resources in case something terrible happened. That's why I save quite diligently.

Of course it's important to think about retirement, but surely it can't be your entire reason for existence. After all, two of my grandparents died only a couple of years after retiring. Another grandparent, quite old now, lives in an expensive apartment but is unhappy. I also have a friend that was hit by a car and killed in her prime - no retirement there. Another friend who killed himself at 30, feeling unfulfilled with life.

Maybe I'm an overly optimistic hippie, but hakuna matata. No, wait, carpe diem.

[senator]

No, it doesn't sound "hippie" but it does sound like me in my thirties when I thought I would live never live long enough to have financial concerns and could do the lifestyle gig thing and not care about money.

Now when I realized that I could live another 40 or more years, I had to get realistic. I - and this may sound funny coming from this site's IE critic - loved my time overseas. I am constantly reminiscing about the great countries I lived in, the great trips I've taken - I still do that.

But the truth is that for most - Aramco and a few other school teachers aside - IT's, the math doesn't support staying overseas much past your forties or even earlier unless you have a sizable chunk of cash saved up. And 15,000 per year just won't do it.

IE is like Crossfit - it's now a young dreamer's game. Like the Peace Corps. Do it early then come back and start your career.

A QUESTION TO ALL: Does anybody support Psyguy when he tells Climberman that school heads think something is wrong with him because he opts for Boston (Climberman says he lives in the US) rather than Bangkok? Aside from a greater number of jobs at Bangkok, there is no other benefit. What do you think?

[PsyGuy]

@senator

This is why most ITs either are intent on retiring out in We where they can get a pension, or their plan is to retire on a lot less money somewhere cheap like Venezuela or Ecuador. The other alternative is to transition into administration and management where the earning potentials are much higher.

My issue with your position is that many ITs who are career ITs do not want to return to their domestic home. They want to visit to see family, but they left and dont want to go back. They are tierd of running the rat race domestically so that they can work themselves to the bone all so that they can be rats sitting on a lawn chair drinking lemonade, too old too do anything. They want to travel know and see the world and live a new culture while they are still young enough to do so on their own feet and without supplemental oxygen. Many ITs over my years of experience have this perception that retirement is just waiting to die and spending money the whole while doing it.

You may be the exception, but many ITs that came out of public/regulated/maintained schools have ZERO interest going back to the pool of poo that being a domestic teacher was and is.

BKK is the superstar competitive fair for expert professional ITs with an angle that makes them special. Just as an intern IT at BKK would be out of place, so is a specialized experienced IT out of place at an entry level fair of which the BOS fair is.
Even if a candidate is attending a recruiting event because of cost or travel restrictions. BOS is the end of peak recruiting, why wouldnt someone with that resume still be available so late in the recruiting period.

[chilagringa]

So where's the line between being BOS material and BKK material?

Assuming good references but not a particularly in-demand subject, what criteria would a person have to meet?

-M.Ed.?
-PYP/MYP/DP experience?
-5+ years experience?
-experience in a tier 1 or 2 international school?

A few years down the road I will have most, but not all of those things.