Questions...Where to begin?

justgreene
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:01 pm

Questions...Where to begin?

Post by justgreene »

Hello everyone,

I am interested in moving forward and teaching abroad. I am an experienced English teacher in the US. I have 18 years experience and my wife has 3 years experience in math/science. I am an educator at heart but would love the opportunity to travel. We have 2 kids ages 9 & 7. I have read through some posts and am trying to figure what our chances are of getting a position abroad. Europe would be our first choice and parts of Asia. I have a possible connection with the International English School - Sweden. A colleague is from Sweden and she used to teach there. That could be a good start to get in somewhere. But I would be interested in something more inland. It would be ideal to get decent salary and housing allowance for us to make this happen. Is that possible? What is the first step? Just apply and see what happens? I have a resume but not a CV, yet. Any suggestions for a "good-looking" CV? What are key points that I should be aware of and/or stay away from? I am trying to gather as much info as I can as this is new to me. Any help/guidance is greatly appreciated :)

Thanks.
mamava
Posts: 320
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 7:56 am

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by mamava »

I would say register with Search or ISS to be in the pool and see what's available. I would also be very open to places you might not think of...we've had great experiences personally and professionally in places we that weren't on our radar. For us as parents, having a good fit for our kids is as (or more) important for our peace of mind. Finally, we had a very good idea of what we needed to earn to meet our financial obligations and goals...then it was easy to see that some great places were just not right for us at that particular point in time. For CVs, emphasize your experience and ability to contribute--good schools want ambitious teachers who can contribute to areas beyond the classroom. We knew nothing about international education when we started and we landed great jobs. It can happen!
justgreene
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by justgreene »

Hello mamava,

Thank you for your response. I am definitely open to areas that are not on my radar - as long as they are safe and have good schools for my children. I will look into ISS but what is Search? You mentioned it in your post. I will also update my resume/CV with your suggestions. The financial side is difficult as many of the schools I looked at don't tell you the salary on the website. What else should I be considering?

Thanks.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by shadowjack »

Hi Justgreene,

welcome to the world of international education! Search Associates is the larger and better set up for teachers (in terms of their data base) recruitment agencies. You can also use Search or Teacher Horizons (google them).

As for Europe, well, everybody wants to get to Europe. Join the line. But understand, any benefits, including flights and tuition, are taxable and taxes as a portion of your salary are much higher (but you get more for your money, too).

As for "parts of Asia" I am thinking you mean either Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia, or Singapore, with maybe Thailand thrown in the mix? Again, join the line. Those are the most popular parts of Asia.

There are two things - your years experience will stand you in good stead. Your wife, though, depends on when she got her teaching experience. Is it the last three years, or is it three years before you had kids and since then she hasn't been in the classroom? Those are all factors.

Two teachers, two kids, should not be a major issue. Mamava's advice is good. Get your ducks in a row, sign up with Search this summer or earlier, and then recruit for next year. Although you are in the US, my advice would be to get an invite to the London Fair. Failing that, go to the Boston Fair. There is also an AASA (South American schools) Fair in Atlanta in December, I believe.

Good luck!

shad
justgreene
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by justgreene »

Shadowjack,

You seem to hit it right on the nose. I just went on to Teacher Horizons and did a quick search. Looks like a few possibilities there. Thanks for pointing out the taxes info for me. My wife has not taught for quite some time. I just thought I would mention that in case she chooses to try to get a job.

Are you suggesting I get everything in order to apply for 2016-17? I will have to check on the fairs.

Thanks for the advice.
National
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:00 am

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by National »

Hi justgreene,

Another note -- you said you couldn't find financial information on the school's websites. Few publish it on their websites. If you join Search, this information is available to you on their database. It is really helpful -- it will give the typical salary for different pay steps and savings potential. You do have to take it with a grain of salt, however, as these are school reported. It is a good starting place. Another nice thing about Search is that your membership is good for three years or until you get a job.

As shadowjack mentioned, the areas you are interested in are high-demand areas that may be difficult to break into your first year as an international teacher. If you like Europe, I would suggest you focus more on Eastern Europe as it is slightly easier to get into and the taxes don't tend to be as bad. Most of Western European schools won't provide housing or flights, so that is also something to keep in mind.

Since your wife hasn't been teaching for awhile, she might want to try to get a job where you currently are for next year so that she has more recent experience. This will make her more viable candidate and make you stronger as a teaching couple. Ideally, you both should be working -- many schools will only cover one child per working teacher. This would delay your start, but might be something to consider. If you signed up for Search now, you could do a soft recruitment next year (see if you can land anything with minimal effort) and then try in earnest the following year if you are still looking.
Monkey
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:59 am

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by Monkey »

Welcome to international teaching!

It wasn't clear in your initial post, but were you trying to secure a job for 2015-2016? Because the IT world does recruiting long before US public schools do. The peak of recruiting is December-February. There are still jobs available for next year, so I never say never, but your best bet would be to wait for this fall to begin job searching for a 2016-2017 position.

Also, as shadow jack mentioned, 2 teachers + 2 kids is fairly standard, but if your wife is not trying to get a job, that leaves you in the much tougher position of being 1 teacher + 3 dependents. Again, not impossible, but a long shot for a good job. And there are very few schools in Europe that would provide a package you could support a family with on only 1 salary. Your best bet is to apply as a teaching couple. Your wife could try teaching this coming school year to bolster her resume.
justgreene
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by justgreene »

Hello,

I appreciate all of the information. if you think of something else I should consider please let me know. I was actually thinking 2015-16 but didn't realize that recruiting is pretty much over. I will have to consider that and pursue the 2016-17 school year. I will also check out the more Eastern Europe countries if that might be the way to get my feet wet. I am not ready to give up on 15-16 year but won't feel bad if nothing happens.

Yes, my wife has been out of the game for a number of years. She does tutor on the side. Maybe she can substitute abroad? Or do a leave/cover type of position. Just an idea...

Again, I appreciate all of your thoughts & guidance.

Justin
justgreene
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by justgreene »

Just curious...

Of the Eastern European countries, what can you tell me about the schools? How is teaching in Czech Republic, Albania, Macedonia, Hungary or Poland? Is there one that is really good that I am missing?

Thanks.
JeremyIrons
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:30 am

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by JeremyIrons »

Don't write Western Europe off just because it's difficult to get in to. I'm teaching here, as are all the other teachers in my school so it must be possible. You of course won't make as much money as you would in Doha (as an example of somewhere everyone seems to go), but you'll have an infinitely better life (especially your kids) unless shopping malls and oppression are your things. As for money, no you won't make millions, but that's not why you got in to teaching. With two of you working you can enjoy a good standard of living in Europe (and that's from someone currently in Greece!). Eastern Europe is another option where you are more likely to get accommodation/flight etc but it's a big place - be careful choosing. There are some beautiful countries, and also some Eastern bloc concrete jungles.

Everything in international teaching is a trade off between location and money. When you're young, free and single you can sacrifice the life for money in the middle East but with kids it's a different story.
sid
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by sid »

If your wife isn't planning on working, things are going to be a lot more difficult. Schools offer flights, insurance, tuition and larger housing for families. If only one of you is working, you're asking them to do all that for a family of 4, but just one teacher. A massive expense for them. Teachers in similar family situations find it much harder to get jobs. Not impossible, but harder. And of course, with one salary, you will have to budget very carefully (which you know, I'm sure). Few and far between are the schools with salaries to support an entire family in style on one paycheck.
Also, as an English teacher you are one of many. You have good experience, but will be competing with a ton of other experienced English teachers with smaller families and international experience.
Your wife, with less experience but Math/Science both options, may be the key to getting what you want. Any chance she's taught AP or DP? Or can sell herself as a true middle school expert? Schools find it much harder to get good science and math teachers, particularly at the upper levels and/or who truly love the middle school kids.
As a package, you are much stronger. On your own, it will be much trickier.
If you can get your wife back in the classroom before you apply, even as a substitute, so much the better.
shadowjack
Posts: 2138
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by shadowjack »

Justgreene,

as a follow up now that more is known, my advice is wait for 2016-17. Why? All the good schools are fully staffed up - and if they do have a vacancy, it is much more likely to be a one-off, single vacancy as a local hire's spouse gets transferred and so they need to fill one spot. With things tight all over, hiring one English teacher with 3 dependents at a decent international school is not likely to happen.

Where is it LIKELY to happen? At bog standard, don't touch it with a bargepole schools. Schools where your kids are one of a few western kids and the rest are host nationals. At one where the "sports area" is a concrete pad in the hot sun shared by everybody at break. Those schools need western faces in front of bodies to keep the $$ flowing. You might find one of them.

By the time you get registered with Search, most international schools following a North American curriculum will be in exam time and then heading for the last week of school, which falls between late May and the first two weeks of June for the majority of them. British schools stay open later, following the British schedule, but most of them are done by the end of June or so, and if you haven't taught the British system, it's a long shot to get in (and not too likely with 4 of you! LOL).

My best advice would be get your ducks in a row now and start recruiting in the fall. Recruiting for international schools starts in late September as schools try to get feelers from staff about who is leaving and staying. The way it works internationally is you have a date to give your school firm notice you are recruiting. This means you are going. It varies between the start of October (yes, the START of October) and the middle of December for some lucky jokers. In Europe, some staff doesn't 100% have to let their school know until sometime in the Spring, depending on national labour laws. But most European schools know which staff are leaving because they have to go to job fairs, and they need a reference from their admin usually to recruit (most recent reference).

Just my two cents. Hope it helps.

shad
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

Is this a permanent change in the profession or are you interested in only a couple years in WE (Western Europe) or somewhere like JP (Japan) in Asia, and youd like an elite tier IS to provide you a comparable salary as you have at home, as well as housing and all the benefits for a few years, to to explore WE, somewhere in the Med, and give the kids some culture and your wife that idealistic European travel?

Its not good, its pretty bad. You are marketable, but the problem is going to be your wife and her marketability, and really she is going to be the key if your successful or not.
First the rule is your marketable at a 1:1 employee:dependent ratio. You will however, be below the teaching couples without kids, and the singles, thats not the bottom of the pile, but the middle isnt the top either. The issue is that kids are cost. They add nothing to an IS. The conventional thinking is that local ISs want the western faces but its not really true, the parents that are paying know if there are just a few token western students, and its cheaper to have stock images or hire talent for the right photos for the marketing materials and websites. Its not worth $10K (the average cost of a tuition waiver), if they are going to hire you anyway than the western boost to the student population is a bonus, but they arent going to hire you just to add to the western student population, and if they were going to do that its easier and cheaper to hire local (no OSH) or an ESOL instructor with a family on a hourly contract.

My interpretation is that your wife has been out of the classroom for about a decade since you had children, and before that she only had 3 years before that? When she did teach was she a lower secondary (middle school) teacher or did she teach an AP/DIP/IGCSE/A* class?
The rule is you can lose about a year out of the classroom and then your marketability degrades. 10 years is going to put her in the same marketability as an intern IT (someone without experience).
This is going to be the key focus of any vacancy search, is getting your wife hired. Without your wife with a position, than your traveler ratio is 1:3, which is going to make you unemployable. Only elite tier ISs can absorb that kind of cost for a single English IS, and many of them dont have to since they get hundreds too thousands of applications for a vacancy, and lost of those ITs will be cheaper and just as qualified.
You need to identify an IS that has both a science and a Lit. position, have your wife apply, and based on their interest in her, that is going to determine your marketability.

Is her certificate even valid? Has she maintained it, and if she hasnt what does she have to do to renew or reinstate the certificate/license?

WE is the most popular and desirable IT destination, the goal for most ITs is to get to WE so they can retire out. You would absolutely need 2 incomes in WE, even if you could find an IS that would hire one of you, you would not be able to afford a family of 4 in WE ona single salary at anything that wasnt an elite tier IS.
The top coin elite tier ISs are the ones that give the generous OSH packages, the 2nd and 3rd tier ISs dont provide housing allowances, and the 3rd tier ISs dont provide relocation. Many of the WE countries have very high taxes around 40% after taxes your looking at about 2600€ a 3 bedroom apartment will eat up half of that, another couple hundred for utilities, and another couple hundred for mobile and internet, and another hundred minimum transportation. That leaves you about 800€ for food and household goods which will leave you bust. On top of that you will have to pay tax as if it was income on the tuition waivers (which is an average 40%) so each of your kids is going to cost you about 350€ each (700€ for both) that you cant afford. You could send your children to a municipal school, or a Euro school to avoid those costs. It would still leave you with nothing leftover, no savings and no margin for discretionary or emergency expenses.
EE (Eastern Europe) is an option, however the pool of schools is very small, there are under 20 ISs in the EE region that are agency repped, and the majority of them are the elite tier ISs in the region. Its an option but if you were marketable to those ISs youd be marketable in the WE.
I would discuss Asia, but my instinct is that your not really interested in Asia.
In regards to IES (Sweden) they are a state trust school. Think of it as a Charter school, its publicly funded but they have more flexibility in their operation. They do not provide an OSH package. This means no housing and no relocation, and Swedish taxes are very high. You will have the same benefits and compensation as a municipal school teacher in Sweden (Salary and Social Insurance Program) plus a free mobile, gym membership and free lunch (not really free you have to eat with your students). You wont have to pay taxes on tuition or tuition because the schools are open schools (publicly funded). The average salary is about 28K crowns/month, which after taxes is about $2.2K USD a month.
If your interest is only an elite tier IS or WE appointment you are likely to become very frustrated.

Peak recruiting in IE starts with the BKK fair in early January and end with the BOS fair in early February. Before that ISs require or ask for intent letters/notice starting around October (ina number of WE regions this notice in non binding until much later in the the school term). After February, recruiting continues to fall/drop, though it never really ends. A number of third tier ISs in hardship locations and various domestic schools follow non western calenders.

Among recruiting options at the top are the "premium agencies" of which there are two ISS (International School Services) and SA (Search Associates). ISS historically was the smaller of the two as they had almost exclusively upper tier schools, whereas SA has a more general IS database. ISS has greatly expanded, but as has plagued SA there are a significant number of third tier and some really horrible poo hole ISs. ISS still focuses on highly marketable ITs and for those candidates they provide very personal services, however if you do not meet that standard, ISS will very likely ignore you or have only the most rudimentary contact.
SA appeals to a more general audience, though like ISS the top tier elite ISs are provide the agency more prestige then actual vacancies. SA Associates can be hit or miss, some are attentive, some are not, depending on what value you are likely to provide.
Both agencies are about $200 for 2 years (ISS) or 3 years SA, SA includes one fair invitation and ISS includes all of their fairs at no extra cost. Their primary benefit is access to a jobs data base, IS profiles, and the creation of a standard application and reference bank.
Salaries are very difficult to obtain, both SA and ISS have a IS profile database that provides some anchor points on salary, but they are not very useful, they are either exaggerated, or they are outdated. At best they provide a range of what compensation in the region. Their is not assurance that you will be offered what is indicated.
Below the premium recruiting agencies you have database services such as Joy Jobs and TIE which for on average of $30/year provide you access to a jobs database.
Below that you have the free jobs forums such as Daves ESL cafe, etc.

I recommend you begin your vacancy search now, both premium agencies are good for multiple years, so you will essentially get the remainder of this year free. It will give you an idea of what is available after primary recruiting, and you will be ready for recruiting next year, and be able to request a fair invitation early. In addition you will have the opportunity to interview the remainder of this year and get a feel for the general flow. You will also be able to build your IE professional network. Lastly, you may even get an offer. There just isnt any downside to delaying.

You do not need a CV at this point, its an item for your portfolio, should you choose to create one. There are only two factors that matter in IE: 1) What you can teach (certifications, degrees, etc), 2) What you have taught (experience). Of those two experience is the priority. As a minor factor special activities can influence an application, and as discussed above, logistical factors such as family size can doom an IE career. A resume hitting those three factors is all you really need.
justgreene
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:01 pm

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by justgreene »

I wanted to thank everyone for their awesome responses. I was very busy this week with my own teaching that it took me a while to get back on here. I have a lot to think about now with all of the responses. There is a lot to consider when teaching abroad. I am so glad I found this forum! It has been so helpful. I will continue researching and reading other people's posts. Again, thanks to everyone that are giving advice & support!
shebestova
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:32 pm

Re: Questions...Where to begin?

Post by shebestova »

Is the 28,000 k or 2,200 USD salary for IES (Sweden) the salary for a new teacher or for someone with more experience? I have 13 years of experience and my Rank I (MAT plus 30) and I would like to know the salary I could expect from them.
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