Hi! I'm a maybe-aspiring-international-teacher whose won't-count-for-much-experience consists of two years in the Peace Corps and a current hagwon position in Korea. I really enjoy teaching and working abroad, so I'm seriously considering doing the TeacherReady program to try and make the jump into IE. Yes, I know, you've heard from a hundred people just like me-- I've read through a lot of past posts on this forum, so I know my situation isn't exactly unique!
I'd probably aim to get certified in elementary education and secondary English. I get the impression that those are possibly the least-competitive certifications, but it's really what I'd be happiest and most confident teaching. Add in the fact that I'd need a location where my boyfriend can either do cheap visa runs, or a place that would accept him as a trailing spouse (if we got married for this, I mean, which is an option), and I know that I would be looking at what I commonly see called "the bottom of the barrel." Possibly several feet underneath the barrel, in fact.
Can someone give me examples of that bottom of the barrel? I completely accept that I wouldn't be working at a prestigious school or earning a high salary. I would be comfortable working with students who are primarily locals rather than foreigners; although I have seen some references to entitled rich kids who you have to keep happy, I figure that isn't so different from the students at my hagwon. We'd be fine living somewhere with a lower standard of living, provided we can have consistent electricity/wi-fi (boyfriend needs it for his work). What I DON'T want to deal with for two years is an administration that makes teaching miserable, or serious safety concerns-- is it possible to go bottom-of-that-dang-barrel without dealing with either of those factors?
And if anyone reading this entered IE without any previous experience, would you mind telling me a little about the first school you managed to land a job at?
Thank you all for any advice or insight you can give. I've been reading through this forum to learn more about IE and try to decide if this is the right choice, and I really appreciate how active and helpful everyone here seems to be.
What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
-
wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
Hi. First let me say that I think that many of us (int'l school teachers) get way too caught up in tiers etc. There are many schools out there that are not considered top tier schools that can still offer an interesting and rewarding experience.
Our first int'l school was probably 3rd tier (it was the second best school in that city and the best was probably 2nd tier). I had only two years experience (although my wife had more) and we were happy to get jobs at our first job fair. We had a good time at the school and in the country (Egypt). Financially, we were making only around $20K each but saved one person's whole salary. In school, the students were mostly Egyptian and were a mixed bag as far as motivation, behavior etc. No one cursed me out to my face (in English at least), some learning was involved and we felt like our students and their parents appreciated what we did. Our administrator was a nice man who meant well but was fairly constrained and frustrated by the owner and some influential parents. It could be a bit of a mess at times but we were not miserable and never felt unsafe.
I think you could expect a number of schools to give you a chance and you would find many of them to be similar to what we encountered. Safety, in large part, will depend on location, so research the countries/cities well. Admin that make your life miserable are possible and more difficult to plan for as they can change frequently and with little notice.
If you are open to challenging but manageable locations like China, the Middle East etc, then you should find a decent school that will give you a chance to get experience, do some traveling and still have a nice little oversea life, even at the bottom of the barrel.
Our first int'l school was probably 3rd tier (it was the second best school in that city and the best was probably 2nd tier). I had only two years experience (although my wife had more) and we were happy to get jobs at our first job fair. We had a good time at the school and in the country (Egypt). Financially, we were making only around $20K each but saved one person's whole salary. In school, the students were mostly Egyptian and were a mixed bag as far as motivation, behavior etc. No one cursed me out to my face (in English at least), some learning was involved and we felt like our students and their parents appreciated what we did. Our administrator was a nice man who meant well but was fairly constrained and frustrated by the owner and some influential parents. It could be a bit of a mess at times but we were not miserable and never felt unsafe.
I think you could expect a number of schools to give you a chance and you would find many of them to be similar to what we encountered. Safety, in large part, will depend on location, so research the countries/cities well. Admin that make your life miserable are possible and more difficult to plan for as they can change frequently and with little notice.
If you are open to challenging but manageable locations like China, the Middle East etc, then you should find a decent school that will give you a chance to get experience, do some traveling and still have a nice little oversea life, even at the bottom of the barrel.
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
OP, why are you aiming so low? Why ,oh why?
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
wrldtrvlr 123 wrote:
> If you are open to challenging but manageable locations like China, the Middle East
> etc, then you should find a decent school that will give you a chance to get experience,
> do some traveling and still have a nice little oversea life, even at the bottom
> of the barrel.
Thank you! That's good advice to know. Yeah, I'm not overly concerned with tiers really-- like I said, I'm not particularly concerned about going somewhere prestigious. I just wanted to make sure that when people talk about 3rd tier, they don't necessarily mean it will be an awful place to work. And it sounds like there are many options that aren't! Thank you for the encouragement, and for the personal anecdote.
dover2013 wrote:
> OP, why are you aiming so low? Why ,oh why?
Ha, I promise that if I choose to go through with this, I'll aim high with my applications, too! But before I commit $5,000 and my (and my boyfriend's) foreseeable future to trying to make this happen, I wanted to think through the worst-case scenarios. As far as no-experience post-cert. teachers go, I think I'd be a fairly marketable one. Still, I get pretty mixed opinions about the job market from this forum, so I just want to be prepared for everything.
> If you are open to challenging but manageable locations like China, the Middle East
> etc, then you should find a decent school that will give you a chance to get experience,
> do some traveling and still have a nice little oversea life, even at the bottom
> of the barrel.
Thank you! That's good advice to know. Yeah, I'm not overly concerned with tiers really-- like I said, I'm not particularly concerned about going somewhere prestigious. I just wanted to make sure that when people talk about 3rd tier, they don't necessarily mean it will be an awful place to work. And it sounds like there are many options that aren't! Thank you for the encouragement, and for the personal anecdote.
dover2013 wrote:
> OP, why are you aiming so low? Why ,oh why?
Ha, I promise that if I choose to go through with this, I'll aim high with my applications, too! But before I commit $5,000 and my (and my boyfriend's) foreseeable future to trying to make this happen, I wanted to think through the worst-case scenarios. As far as no-experience post-cert. teachers go, I think I'd be a fairly marketable one. Still, I get pretty mixed opinions about the job market from this forum, so I just want to be prepared for everything.
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
Agree, it's not necessarily bad being at the bottom, it means different things to different people at different times. I worked in a country many people would consider right at the bottom and had a good experience. I now live in a country many people want to live in and it's kinda the same feeling.
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
There are some lovely gems out there if you're not concerned with getting the highest salary or working in a palace with all the latest bells and whistles. Many schools are flush with fantastic people if not with money, and it can be great to work somewhere where good people are doing the best they can with what they have for kids. Some ivory towers can feel pretty grumpy and spoiled as the teachers complain that their IWB stopped working and it took two whole days to fix it... Or that a student has dyslexia but the support teacher can only give him 5 hours a week...
As for English and primary not being competitive, well, you might not have schools lining up and begging you to pick them, but there will ALWAYS be jobs for you, every year, in just about every school. If you're halfway decent, you'll always be able to find a position, especially after a few good years. A DP Chemistry teacher may be highly sought after, but comparably few schools need one each year.
As for English and primary not being competitive, well, you might not have schools lining up and begging you to pick them, but there will ALWAYS be jobs for you, every year, in just about every school. If you're halfway decent, you'll always be able to find a position, especially after a few good years. A DP Chemistry teacher may be highly sought after, but comparably few schools need one each year.
Response
There are basically two types of ITs when it comes to tiers there is the group that rolls its eyes, and thinks tiers are stupid, and what does it matter the label you put on it, if its an IS that works for you, and meets your needs and expectations. Then there is the group of ITs that want/need to be "successful" and tiers are very very important to them. There arent a lot of ITs in the middle. Neither group is wrong.
So there are 3 tiers, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and then a sub group of the 1st tier the elite tier. The third tier is actually pretty big and there is a lot of difference in quality. Usually when we say "bottom tier" we mean those ISs that are really at the bottom of the 3rd tier. Some of the third tier ISs can be really rewarding experiences (floaters), and depending where you are (such as Switzerland) a third tier IS would still be wondrously glorious compared to what you would find a domestic public/regulated school.
That said, no its not possible to go to the bottom of the third tier and not find admins/management that make you miserable, or that have threats to your safety. There is poo and a lot of poo in the bottom of the third tier, ISs that are a train wreck waiting to happen and the only issue is when you see it coming and what you do to get out of the way. There are ISs that dont pay teachers, that lie cheat, and abuse their teachers, it happens its not uncommon at the bottom tier.
Third tier schools can have some attractive benefits:
An upper third tier school (floater) may have a plain building tucked away in a corner of the city. The school OSH plan would include a flight reimbursement (up to a certain limit), which you would receive in your first salary disbursement. The school would reimburse you for your visa. Depending on the location you may get provided housing or a small/partial housing allowance or maybe no allowance. You go into the IS M-F 5 days a week. Your students come in their like any kids youve probably worked with. The kids either leave afterwards or there is some ASP/XC that you may or may not have to do, maybe one day a week, usually nothing, or the ASP/XC pays a little extra (especially if its tutoring or ESOL). Kids go home. Parents are usually too busy to discuss much with you, you send an email to them and they reply that they will deal with it. Admin/management pretty much leaves you alone. You get a reminder at the beginning of the week what your production deliverable are (paperwork, reports, lesson plans, other documentation). There isnt likely much of a curriculum, you pretty much teach what you want as long as its on topic and grade appropriate, your lesson plan is a few bullet points for each course. You can direct teach/lecture from the book, do some peer work sheets, maybe an activity and your done. You eat lunch either you bring your own or eat school lunch. At the end of the day you do your marking, mostly by spot check. You make your photo copies for the next day, and make sure you turn off the lights and the AC (seriously leaving the AC on will get you into more trouble than anything academically related). At the end of the month you get your salary. Your coworkers will pretty much do their thing, you will do your thing, and youll have small talk at lunch. If anything more happens thats up to you. There isnt a lot of politics or drama because there isnt much to plot and scheme over. Its a job, you show up, the kids learn, you pick up the money.
The best aspects of an upper third tier school (a floater):
1) Your left alone by admin, there usually isnt a small army of admin/managers with nothing to do, especially at a small IS. Admin are fire fighters they go on alert when there is a problem, otherwise they are happy to be doing various admin related tasks that involve long lunches, and "strategically planing and thinking".
2) You have a lot of autonomy for course design and content.
3) Assessment priorities are low, as long as you can say everyone is doing fine you dont need to burden yourself too much with assessment. You can mark most things by sight and holistically. You know who "gets it" and who is having trouble. You dont need 4 metrics before you can schedule an academic intervention, or make a referral to someone in learning support (which you probably dont have). You can just email the kids parents and copy your admin/management to it.
4) You dont have to bring your A game. You really can phone in it, and its honestly preferred. ISs go through a LOT of work trying to convince parents of concepts like "Inquiry Based Learning" or "Peer Committees", they just want their kids to sit in a room with someone who knows enough about the subject to present it to their kids, and know that their kids remembered what was said long enough to get a high mark.
5) There is more of a balance of power. Your there for the job, and your expensive and not so easy to replace. Admin/Management tends not to push for more than whats in your contract. They may ask, you may want to bank some political currency/favors, but if you say you cant your not going to be disciplined for it.
6) There is a stability of knowing that as far as ambition, reference from a third tier school isnt going to mean or do much. Good/bad if your not moving up the tiers and your content swimming in the barrel of third tier you can likely find another IS relatively easy. You dont have to constantly be on your toes over the potential "doom" to your career.
7) There are good advancement opportunities in the third tier, many ITs get their start in administration not by going back to Uni or getting an admin credential but by being at a school long enough to move up into leadership roles simply by staying. When your at an IS with a 2year revolving door, staying that third year can easily be an HOD or coordinator position, and moving into an AP/VP/DP role a year or two after that. Some HOSs get there because they have just been there the long enough. You fit with the ISs environment and its ownership and they like you and one year they ask you to head the school.
8) There really arent any upper tier municipal schools. If you want to work in public/regulated schools is a country you have to be content with being in the third tier.
Of course there are some awful, awful bottom 3rd tier schools as well:
The IS is this amazing fabulous building. As you walk into school students look at you and talk to themselves in their host language and then they laugh. Your not even in your room yet and one of your APs (VP/DP) who is a friend of the owners son, and needed a job "managing people for the experience" tells you that one of your students parents is upset you did not send home extra maths work for their son (he doesnt do the standard assignment well to begin with) and that a formal notice of this disciplinary action will be put in your file, and that you have been assigned 90 minutes of tutoring as an additional ASP, which if you fail to attend will be deducted from your salary (essentially its either teacher detention or a fine). As you get into your room you have a number of other emails to reply too, but you dont have time because there is only one photo copier that actually works because the school will only by toner for one of the three machines at a time, and its either wait to do copying or take 20 minutes trying to get your computer (that has no labels or decals on the box, and has a pirated copy of windows 7 and Office) to work and connected to the network that is some ADSL at 1.5MB for the whole school, and the teacher across the hall is trying to download a video for their class. Of course admin/management have a separate network that they get to use. So you go to the teacher work room to do photo copying, and another coworker is still upset that someone keeps taking their coke from the staff refrigerator. As your copies are done minutes before class start you walk in and find several students already talking. When you attempt to start class you have to ask for attention several times because two of your students who are bffs do not know how to shut up, and needing to yell at them they talk just a few more seconds, knowing that if you refer them to admin or contact their parents it will be more trouble for you then for them.
Your lessons are pretty easy they consist of a lecture and a couple worksheets. You have to instruct though for at least 30 minutes of the period and youve already seen another AP/VP/DP monitoring the halls and taking notes, but your out of material and your sure only a third of the students were paying attention, and moving on will just leave you further behind and may cause the third that were paying attention to exceed their fatigue point. So as an "assessment" (your always having to think how to justify everything you do for your lesson plan thats due at the end of the day, because one of the AP/VP/DP responsible for curriculum knows nothing about education but requires a countdown of how much time is spent on each activity, if yours dont add up, then you get another disciplinary notice, and have to attend a planing meeting), you ask the students identify the units main points which you write on the board (its a smart board, but your not allowed to use it, and the computer doesnt work on it anyway) which looks like your lecturing but all your doing is writing and says "good" and "excellent".
Once you hit the 30 minutes mark you hand out the worksheets, and debate whether to use the next 20 minutes checking your email and logging into the computer, or completing the "lesson planer" (which looks like no lesson planer youve ever seen, and contains action items such as:
1) Compliment each student.
2) Ask each student a question.
3) What are your English words for the lesson your students will have trouble with, and have you sent the requisite vocabulary list to the parents 3 days in advance of the lesson?
4) Will your lesson contain a formative, summative or portfolio assessment? If there is no assessment how will you determine your students success with todays lesson? Has the Assessment administrator received and approved your assessment for this course and form.
5) State in detail the learning points of your assessment?
6) Is your lesson aligned with the prescribed material and textbook (you get one textbook for the whole class). If not, was your lesson submitted and approved by the curriculum administrator?
7) Were there any behavior problems in this class? Did you follow the staff policy for discipline management and cultural sensitivity (the discipline management policy says to do "X" and the cultural sensitivity policy says to do "Y" or not to do "X" if this, and that, but not this happens)?
8) What did you assign for after school work to all students? IF you did not assign after school work, has the curriculum administrator, and the assessment administrator received and approved this? You must notify all parents that there is no after school work for today.
9) Did you wish every student a good day?
10) Turn off the lights and AC when leaving your room.
By midday your seriously behind on all the tasks your supposed to do, so you fill out a repair ticket to the secretary that your computer does not work and you cant complete task X, Y, Z. You then debate between prepping for tomorrows class since you have a Teacher detention after school wondering if anyone will show up, and you can just use the 90 minutes to prep and mark. You decide to prep the class tomorrow and spot mark the 1 paragraph reaction papers turned in today, before getting to the formative assessment marks, and start looking at the pile of stuff in students folders trying to find something that you can use for their portfolio for this week that is decent, when your principal walks in and closes the door and sits down at your desk and asks how your doing and telling you about the new scroll they got about something before pausing and says that a lot of disciplinary notices have been added to your file and its going to effect your reference, and they are considering their staffing needs for next term (mid year) and if you should be invited back, but that they like you and if you agree to do the Saturday Knowledge Bowl (this Saturday) it will show your commitment to the school and maybe you just need a little more time to adjust. You sigh, and agree to do it, thinking you can start looking for another job tonight and maybe can be out before Saturday.
You have two more classes this afternoon which you have the students each give a presentation on how the material they have covered in this unit would better help the environment (you can always do something with the environment in any class). You save their worksheet/lecture for tomorrow, and decide to do the presentations this afternoon for the morning classes as well, meaning your down for tomorrow. The school is nothing more than a pay for grades school anyway. As your last class leaves you sigh and move your desks into a table for Math tutoring.
As you start to look though your gradebook for an assessment and activity for portfolio the AP/VP/DP tells you all teachers with tutoring meet in the learning center today, since they are buffing the floors. Inside the learning center are 4 teachers each at a table, and your to assist any students that come in. You pick a book of the shelf and start reading since you have nothing to do, and no students show up. At 6:00 tutoring is over and you can clock out, which you forgot to clock in this morning, which had you checked your email you would have seen that you received another disciplinary notice.
The problems with a third tier school:
1) You get lied too all the time. Anytime you have a problem with this its passed off as a "cultural misunderstanding".
2) Your admin team are sociopaths, they bully you into doing anything and everything with the constant threat that noncompliance will result in dismissal. There is often some kind of demerit/fine system.Its usually written into the school policy that "Teachers warrant the quality of all lessons and instruction" and that quality is in the sole judgment of the administration, and that the school shall not be liable for the payment of inferior lessons or instruction.
3) No one is happy but all the staff bond together, at least the foreign staff, the locals are usually spies for the admin and ownership. If your at a bottom third tier school and you have a native teaching assistant, that person is a pretty much a spy.
4) You have no protections, and really none. Bottom tier schools know what they are and they dont care what other teachers think about them or what foreigners think about them. They know you have no real access to their parents or student base. The contract doesnt mean anything to them they will dismiss you when thy feel like it and make you take them to court or a labor board, and even if by a miracle you do win, they just wont pay. Most of these ISs have connections that allows them to essentially blow you off forever.
5) You get ripped off. Your paid late and there are always deductions the fine system essentially means you never know how much you should of gotten. If you complain about the system, or treatment your reminded that early termination of your contract by dismissal or resignation will mean you will never work in IE again, and all kinds of bad things will happen to you, such as you will be arrested or deported. Teachers that leave have gotten a final salary disbursement of zero, alleging all kinds of property damage, etc. Many of these schools will simply not follow labor laws, and either dismiss you or assume you dont know what your rights are.
6) The parents really only care about grades and assurances that their child is gifted and will be successful. Give all your students top marks and as long as its not an externally assessed exit course you are fine with the parents.
7) The kids can be really spoiled, entitled and obnoxious. Some of these kids are evil. They will make stories up about you tell their parents and get you in trouble. Even to go so far as being jailed. A number of these kids simply couldnt get into any other school.
8) Your reference wont be worth much, everyone knows the deal, and any reference you get will just indicate that your able to put up with abuse for two years without quiting. It wont be a reflection of your actual teaching ability.
9) You get some OSH benefits but they likely dont pay reimbursements like airfare and visas until the end of the contract. Your housing if any is either provided directly or its limited to only certain and specific properties. The property owner and the IS have some kind of relationship. Run afoul of one and you run afoul of the other. You also find that your last months salary disbursement is "held" until you return next year. Your insurance will be utterly worthless, unless you can get some tape and use the paper its written on to stop your bleeding. It will basically be for one local clinic which will have one nurse who knows a little English and they will do nothing. Injure your ankle and they will just put it under a light and look and feel the ankle, forget about an X-ray, they will tell you to get a wrap for it and tell you to take ibuprofen. If you have any major medical condition or emergency your basically at the mercy of the hospital.
10) You spend much much more time on document production than you do on teaching.
I agree with Sid in that while you wont be in demand you will have a lot of availability there are always ELA/Lit and primary positions every year in a lot of places, that gives you mobility I do disagree that science doesnt have a lot of availability, there are a lot of science positions open every year (many of them combine chemistry).
You briefly mentioned the teach ready program as your option to pursue certification. In your case Id advise against it as the best choice, and recommend a PGCEi. Teach Ready has some issue with their program that just arent worth it for an IT with your goals:
1) You have to travel back to the USA for testing, thats an expensive trip.
2) You have to get a field experience placement in an accredited school. This means you will need an American IS to agree to have you work as an intern in their school. Those schools are usually the DOS school.
3) You only get 12 hours/1 semester of equivalent course credit.
4) You need to be finger printed in the US, FLDOE has had very mixed results with overseas fingerprints.
5) There is still a negative disposition within IE about the quality of teachers who are not traditionally trained. You will have a transcript with 12 credit hours but your field experience is going to be a very minor component.
A PGCEi on the other hand is an academic qualification. Its academic component is entirely online and the observation field work can be done at a much larger range of schools. There is no testing you have to travel for, and no finger print requirements. You will also get a full years worth of study credits putting you that much closer to an advance degree. PGCEi ITs are very successful at lower and mid tier ISs. If needed the issue of a PGCEi meeting the professional qualification standard issue has become moot, as you can apply for and receive professional US teaching certification with a PGCEi and then using the US teaching certificate apply (free, just an application) for QTS in the UK if you decided to climb to pursue higher tiers.
So there are 3 tiers, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and then a sub group of the 1st tier the elite tier. The third tier is actually pretty big and there is a lot of difference in quality. Usually when we say "bottom tier" we mean those ISs that are really at the bottom of the 3rd tier. Some of the third tier ISs can be really rewarding experiences (floaters), and depending where you are (such as Switzerland) a third tier IS would still be wondrously glorious compared to what you would find a domestic public/regulated school.
That said, no its not possible to go to the bottom of the third tier and not find admins/management that make you miserable, or that have threats to your safety. There is poo and a lot of poo in the bottom of the third tier, ISs that are a train wreck waiting to happen and the only issue is when you see it coming and what you do to get out of the way. There are ISs that dont pay teachers, that lie cheat, and abuse their teachers, it happens its not uncommon at the bottom tier.
Third tier schools can have some attractive benefits:
An upper third tier school (floater) may have a plain building tucked away in a corner of the city. The school OSH plan would include a flight reimbursement (up to a certain limit), which you would receive in your first salary disbursement. The school would reimburse you for your visa. Depending on the location you may get provided housing or a small/partial housing allowance or maybe no allowance. You go into the IS M-F 5 days a week. Your students come in their like any kids youve probably worked with. The kids either leave afterwards or there is some ASP/XC that you may or may not have to do, maybe one day a week, usually nothing, or the ASP/XC pays a little extra (especially if its tutoring or ESOL). Kids go home. Parents are usually too busy to discuss much with you, you send an email to them and they reply that they will deal with it. Admin/management pretty much leaves you alone. You get a reminder at the beginning of the week what your production deliverable are (paperwork, reports, lesson plans, other documentation). There isnt likely much of a curriculum, you pretty much teach what you want as long as its on topic and grade appropriate, your lesson plan is a few bullet points for each course. You can direct teach/lecture from the book, do some peer work sheets, maybe an activity and your done. You eat lunch either you bring your own or eat school lunch. At the end of the day you do your marking, mostly by spot check. You make your photo copies for the next day, and make sure you turn off the lights and the AC (seriously leaving the AC on will get you into more trouble than anything academically related). At the end of the month you get your salary. Your coworkers will pretty much do their thing, you will do your thing, and youll have small talk at lunch. If anything more happens thats up to you. There isnt a lot of politics or drama because there isnt much to plot and scheme over. Its a job, you show up, the kids learn, you pick up the money.
The best aspects of an upper third tier school (a floater):
1) Your left alone by admin, there usually isnt a small army of admin/managers with nothing to do, especially at a small IS. Admin are fire fighters they go on alert when there is a problem, otherwise they are happy to be doing various admin related tasks that involve long lunches, and "strategically planing and thinking".
2) You have a lot of autonomy for course design and content.
3) Assessment priorities are low, as long as you can say everyone is doing fine you dont need to burden yourself too much with assessment. You can mark most things by sight and holistically. You know who "gets it" and who is having trouble. You dont need 4 metrics before you can schedule an academic intervention, or make a referral to someone in learning support (which you probably dont have). You can just email the kids parents and copy your admin/management to it.
4) You dont have to bring your A game. You really can phone in it, and its honestly preferred. ISs go through a LOT of work trying to convince parents of concepts like "Inquiry Based Learning" or "Peer Committees", they just want their kids to sit in a room with someone who knows enough about the subject to present it to their kids, and know that their kids remembered what was said long enough to get a high mark.
5) There is more of a balance of power. Your there for the job, and your expensive and not so easy to replace. Admin/Management tends not to push for more than whats in your contract. They may ask, you may want to bank some political currency/favors, but if you say you cant your not going to be disciplined for it.
6) There is a stability of knowing that as far as ambition, reference from a third tier school isnt going to mean or do much. Good/bad if your not moving up the tiers and your content swimming in the barrel of third tier you can likely find another IS relatively easy. You dont have to constantly be on your toes over the potential "doom" to your career.
7) There are good advancement opportunities in the third tier, many ITs get their start in administration not by going back to Uni or getting an admin credential but by being at a school long enough to move up into leadership roles simply by staying. When your at an IS with a 2year revolving door, staying that third year can easily be an HOD or coordinator position, and moving into an AP/VP/DP role a year or two after that. Some HOSs get there because they have just been there the long enough. You fit with the ISs environment and its ownership and they like you and one year they ask you to head the school.
8) There really arent any upper tier municipal schools. If you want to work in public/regulated schools is a country you have to be content with being in the third tier.
Of course there are some awful, awful bottom 3rd tier schools as well:
The IS is this amazing fabulous building. As you walk into school students look at you and talk to themselves in their host language and then they laugh. Your not even in your room yet and one of your APs (VP/DP) who is a friend of the owners son, and needed a job "managing people for the experience" tells you that one of your students parents is upset you did not send home extra maths work for their son (he doesnt do the standard assignment well to begin with) and that a formal notice of this disciplinary action will be put in your file, and that you have been assigned 90 minutes of tutoring as an additional ASP, which if you fail to attend will be deducted from your salary (essentially its either teacher detention or a fine). As you get into your room you have a number of other emails to reply too, but you dont have time because there is only one photo copier that actually works because the school will only by toner for one of the three machines at a time, and its either wait to do copying or take 20 minutes trying to get your computer (that has no labels or decals on the box, and has a pirated copy of windows 7 and Office) to work and connected to the network that is some ADSL at 1.5MB for the whole school, and the teacher across the hall is trying to download a video for their class. Of course admin/management have a separate network that they get to use. So you go to the teacher work room to do photo copying, and another coworker is still upset that someone keeps taking their coke from the staff refrigerator. As your copies are done minutes before class start you walk in and find several students already talking. When you attempt to start class you have to ask for attention several times because two of your students who are bffs do not know how to shut up, and needing to yell at them they talk just a few more seconds, knowing that if you refer them to admin or contact their parents it will be more trouble for you then for them.
Your lessons are pretty easy they consist of a lecture and a couple worksheets. You have to instruct though for at least 30 minutes of the period and youve already seen another AP/VP/DP monitoring the halls and taking notes, but your out of material and your sure only a third of the students were paying attention, and moving on will just leave you further behind and may cause the third that were paying attention to exceed their fatigue point. So as an "assessment" (your always having to think how to justify everything you do for your lesson plan thats due at the end of the day, because one of the AP/VP/DP responsible for curriculum knows nothing about education but requires a countdown of how much time is spent on each activity, if yours dont add up, then you get another disciplinary notice, and have to attend a planing meeting), you ask the students identify the units main points which you write on the board (its a smart board, but your not allowed to use it, and the computer doesnt work on it anyway) which looks like your lecturing but all your doing is writing and says "good" and "excellent".
Once you hit the 30 minutes mark you hand out the worksheets, and debate whether to use the next 20 minutes checking your email and logging into the computer, or completing the "lesson planer" (which looks like no lesson planer youve ever seen, and contains action items such as:
1) Compliment each student.
2) Ask each student a question.
3) What are your English words for the lesson your students will have trouble with, and have you sent the requisite vocabulary list to the parents 3 days in advance of the lesson?
4) Will your lesson contain a formative, summative or portfolio assessment? If there is no assessment how will you determine your students success with todays lesson? Has the Assessment administrator received and approved your assessment for this course and form.
5) State in detail the learning points of your assessment?
6) Is your lesson aligned with the prescribed material and textbook (you get one textbook for the whole class). If not, was your lesson submitted and approved by the curriculum administrator?
7) Were there any behavior problems in this class? Did you follow the staff policy for discipline management and cultural sensitivity (the discipline management policy says to do "X" and the cultural sensitivity policy says to do "Y" or not to do "X" if this, and that, but not this happens)?
8) What did you assign for after school work to all students? IF you did not assign after school work, has the curriculum administrator, and the assessment administrator received and approved this? You must notify all parents that there is no after school work for today.
9) Did you wish every student a good day?
10) Turn off the lights and AC when leaving your room.
By midday your seriously behind on all the tasks your supposed to do, so you fill out a repair ticket to the secretary that your computer does not work and you cant complete task X, Y, Z. You then debate between prepping for tomorrows class since you have a Teacher detention after school wondering if anyone will show up, and you can just use the 90 minutes to prep and mark. You decide to prep the class tomorrow and spot mark the 1 paragraph reaction papers turned in today, before getting to the formative assessment marks, and start looking at the pile of stuff in students folders trying to find something that you can use for their portfolio for this week that is decent, when your principal walks in and closes the door and sits down at your desk and asks how your doing and telling you about the new scroll they got about something before pausing and says that a lot of disciplinary notices have been added to your file and its going to effect your reference, and they are considering their staffing needs for next term (mid year) and if you should be invited back, but that they like you and if you agree to do the Saturday Knowledge Bowl (this Saturday) it will show your commitment to the school and maybe you just need a little more time to adjust. You sigh, and agree to do it, thinking you can start looking for another job tonight and maybe can be out before Saturday.
You have two more classes this afternoon which you have the students each give a presentation on how the material they have covered in this unit would better help the environment (you can always do something with the environment in any class). You save their worksheet/lecture for tomorrow, and decide to do the presentations this afternoon for the morning classes as well, meaning your down for tomorrow. The school is nothing more than a pay for grades school anyway. As your last class leaves you sigh and move your desks into a table for Math tutoring.
As you start to look though your gradebook for an assessment and activity for portfolio the AP/VP/DP tells you all teachers with tutoring meet in the learning center today, since they are buffing the floors. Inside the learning center are 4 teachers each at a table, and your to assist any students that come in. You pick a book of the shelf and start reading since you have nothing to do, and no students show up. At 6:00 tutoring is over and you can clock out, which you forgot to clock in this morning, which had you checked your email you would have seen that you received another disciplinary notice.
The problems with a third tier school:
1) You get lied too all the time. Anytime you have a problem with this its passed off as a "cultural misunderstanding".
2) Your admin team are sociopaths, they bully you into doing anything and everything with the constant threat that noncompliance will result in dismissal. There is often some kind of demerit/fine system.Its usually written into the school policy that "Teachers warrant the quality of all lessons and instruction" and that quality is in the sole judgment of the administration, and that the school shall not be liable for the payment of inferior lessons or instruction.
3) No one is happy but all the staff bond together, at least the foreign staff, the locals are usually spies for the admin and ownership. If your at a bottom third tier school and you have a native teaching assistant, that person is a pretty much a spy.
4) You have no protections, and really none. Bottom tier schools know what they are and they dont care what other teachers think about them or what foreigners think about them. They know you have no real access to their parents or student base. The contract doesnt mean anything to them they will dismiss you when thy feel like it and make you take them to court or a labor board, and even if by a miracle you do win, they just wont pay. Most of these ISs have connections that allows them to essentially blow you off forever.
5) You get ripped off. Your paid late and there are always deductions the fine system essentially means you never know how much you should of gotten. If you complain about the system, or treatment your reminded that early termination of your contract by dismissal or resignation will mean you will never work in IE again, and all kinds of bad things will happen to you, such as you will be arrested or deported. Teachers that leave have gotten a final salary disbursement of zero, alleging all kinds of property damage, etc. Many of these schools will simply not follow labor laws, and either dismiss you or assume you dont know what your rights are.
6) The parents really only care about grades and assurances that their child is gifted and will be successful. Give all your students top marks and as long as its not an externally assessed exit course you are fine with the parents.
7) The kids can be really spoiled, entitled and obnoxious. Some of these kids are evil. They will make stories up about you tell their parents and get you in trouble. Even to go so far as being jailed. A number of these kids simply couldnt get into any other school.
8) Your reference wont be worth much, everyone knows the deal, and any reference you get will just indicate that your able to put up with abuse for two years without quiting. It wont be a reflection of your actual teaching ability.
9) You get some OSH benefits but they likely dont pay reimbursements like airfare and visas until the end of the contract. Your housing if any is either provided directly or its limited to only certain and specific properties. The property owner and the IS have some kind of relationship. Run afoul of one and you run afoul of the other. You also find that your last months salary disbursement is "held" until you return next year. Your insurance will be utterly worthless, unless you can get some tape and use the paper its written on to stop your bleeding. It will basically be for one local clinic which will have one nurse who knows a little English and they will do nothing. Injure your ankle and they will just put it under a light and look and feel the ankle, forget about an X-ray, they will tell you to get a wrap for it and tell you to take ibuprofen. If you have any major medical condition or emergency your basically at the mercy of the hospital.
10) You spend much much more time on document production than you do on teaching.
I agree with Sid in that while you wont be in demand you will have a lot of availability there are always ELA/Lit and primary positions every year in a lot of places, that gives you mobility I do disagree that science doesnt have a lot of availability, there are a lot of science positions open every year (many of them combine chemistry).
You briefly mentioned the teach ready program as your option to pursue certification. In your case Id advise against it as the best choice, and recommend a PGCEi. Teach Ready has some issue with their program that just arent worth it for an IT with your goals:
1) You have to travel back to the USA for testing, thats an expensive trip.
2) You have to get a field experience placement in an accredited school. This means you will need an American IS to agree to have you work as an intern in their school. Those schools are usually the DOS school.
3) You only get 12 hours/1 semester of equivalent course credit.
4) You need to be finger printed in the US, FLDOE has had very mixed results with overseas fingerprints.
5) There is still a negative disposition within IE about the quality of teachers who are not traditionally trained. You will have a transcript with 12 credit hours but your field experience is going to be a very minor component.
A PGCEi on the other hand is an academic qualification. Its academic component is entirely online and the observation field work can be done at a much larger range of schools. There is no testing you have to travel for, and no finger print requirements. You will also get a full years worth of study credits putting you that much closer to an advance degree. PGCEi ITs are very successful at lower and mid tier ISs. If needed the issue of a PGCEi meeting the professional qualification standard issue has become moot, as you can apply for and receive professional US teaching certification with a PGCEi and then using the US teaching certificate apply (free, just an application) for QTS in the UK if you decided to climb to pursue higher tiers.
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
Wow! Psyguy with the post of the year! I can't believe I just read the whole thing on my iPhone, while being driven along a winding rural road in southeastern china. Now I'm a bit carsick.
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
whynot wrote:
> Agree, it's not necessarily bad being at the bottom, it means different things to
> different people at different times. I worked in a country many people would consider
> right at the bottom and had a good experience. I now live in a country many people
> want to live in and it's kinda the same feeling.
Thank you for the input!
sid wrote:
> Many schools are flush with fantastic people if not with money, and it can be great
> to work somewhere where good people are doing the best they can with what they have
> for kids.
Thank you for this, and for your comments about the usefulness of primary/English! A school with well-meaning people, that's maybe not very wealthy or well-equipped, would be great for me. I think the good thing about the bulk of my teaching experience being in the Peace Corps is that it's set my standards, bells-and-whistles-wise, very low. It's good to know that this kind of school is something I could possibly find in the world of international schools.
Psyguy, thank you for taking the time and effort to type all that out! I appreciate that you talk about the good as well as the bad, and I'll take your experiences into consideration. About the PGCEi, do you have links to any concise information or specific programs? I'm doing some googling, and it's a bit varied, but it seems fairly expensive, that many courses require you to attend the first few weeks in person, and that the practicum/observation field work is actually more limited? I've read a few things about needing to be a current, employed teacher to do it, as well. If you can point me to anything more specific that would be helpful. Thank you!
> Agree, it's not necessarily bad being at the bottom, it means different things to
> different people at different times. I worked in a country many people would consider
> right at the bottom and had a good experience. I now live in a country many people
> want to live in and it's kinda the same feeling.
Thank you for the input!
sid wrote:
> Many schools are flush with fantastic people if not with money, and it can be great
> to work somewhere where good people are doing the best they can with what they have
> for kids.
Thank you for this, and for your comments about the usefulness of primary/English! A school with well-meaning people, that's maybe not very wealthy or well-equipped, would be great for me. I think the good thing about the bulk of my teaching experience being in the Peace Corps is that it's set my standards, bells-and-whistles-wise, very low. It's good to know that this kind of school is something I could possibly find in the world of international schools.
Psyguy, thank you for taking the time and effort to type all that out! I appreciate that you talk about the good as well as the bad, and I'll take your experiences into consideration. About the PGCEi, do you have links to any concise information or specific programs? I'm doing some googling, and it's a bit varied, but it seems fairly expensive, that many courses require you to attend the first few weeks in person, and that the practicum/observation field work is actually more limited? I've read a few things about needing to be a current, employed teacher to do it, as well. If you can point me to anything more specific that would be helpful. Thank you!
Reply
@nikkor
It was as long as it needed to be.
@leipanga
The prices are comparable. If you look at the PGCEi from the University of Nottingham the course costs for Thailand, China, Hong Kong, and Malaysia are all under $5K USD (between 3170£ and 3330£), teach ready when you add the program fee, and licensing fees comes out to about $5500. For the Nottingham course you do have to travel for about 5 days for the face to face seminar, but your going to have to do the same for Teach Ready, in that you will have to fly back to the USA for your FL certification exams. A trip too the States is going to be more expensive than HK, BKK, KL, or Shanghai.
Not only are you paying about the same but your getting more as well, Teach Ready awards you 12 credit hours or a semester, and a PGCEi gives you a years worth of credits (thats twice the credits for your money).
The Nottingham program is 4 online modules. Yes you need to be a teacher and already employed but unlike the Teach Ready program that requires cooperation from an American IS, your current hagwon will be fine for the PGCEi, so you dont need to approach other ISs and either compensate them or secure their voluntary cooperation.
The other benefits of the PGCEi:
1) There is no mentoring or supervision by school/IS administrators. More specifically you dont need their cooperation and you dont need their recommendation.
2) There are no formal state certification exams. The five day F2F is basically a conference/workshop, you pass by attending. There will be assessments but they are in the form of a paper you write for each module (3000 words or about 12 pages). No stress or even worse having to deal with failing one of the exams.
3) The program can be finished in as little as 8 months. You could start the HK cohort in July (application deadline is 20 May) and be done by February/March well before starting a position for 2016.
I know a number of ITs at third tier schools who were successful with a PGCEi, and the QTS issue is now moot, since you can transfer a PGCEi to the States, and then use the State certification to apply in the UK for full QTS.
You can find more information on the program here:
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/education/p ... ction.aspx
It was as long as it needed to be.
@leipanga
The prices are comparable. If you look at the PGCEi from the University of Nottingham the course costs for Thailand, China, Hong Kong, and Malaysia are all under $5K USD (between 3170£ and 3330£), teach ready when you add the program fee, and licensing fees comes out to about $5500. For the Nottingham course you do have to travel for about 5 days for the face to face seminar, but your going to have to do the same for Teach Ready, in that you will have to fly back to the USA for your FL certification exams. A trip too the States is going to be more expensive than HK, BKK, KL, or Shanghai.
Not only are you paying about the same but your getting more as well, Teach Ready awards you 12 credit hours or a semester, and a PGCEi gives you a years worth of credits (thats twice the credits for your money).
The Nottingham program is 4 online modules. Yes you need to be a teacher and already employed but unlike the Teach Ready program that requires cooperation from an American IS, your current hagwon will be fine for the PGCEi, so you dont need to approach other ISs and either compensate them or secure their voluntary cooperation.
The other benefits of the PGCEi:
1) There is no mentoring or supervision by school/IS administrators. More specifically you dont need their cooperation and you dont need their recommendation.
2) There are no formal state certification exams. The five day F2F is basically a conference/workshop, you pass by attending. There will be assessments but they are in the form of a paper you write for each module (3000 words or about 12 pages). No stress or even worse having to deal with failing one of the exams.
3) The program can be finished in as little as 8 months. You could start the HK cohort in July (application deadline is 20 May) and be done by February/March well before starting a position for 2016.
I know a number of ITs at third tier schools who were successful with a PGCEi, and the QTS issue is now moot, since you can transfer a PGCEi to the States, and then use the State certification to apply in the UK for full QTS.
You can find more information on the program here:
http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/education/p ... ction.aspx
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
Thanks so much, PsyGuy. Looking into this, I can see that it would be logistically much more convenient than TeacherReady in many ways. You've definitely given me something to consider. If you don't mind, could you explain a little more/link to info about transferring the PCGEi to a USA teaching cert? I'm having trouble finding details about that online (my Google-fu is failing me). Do you know anyone who's successfully done that? Ultimately I would like to have a US teaching certification, since at some point I may end up living there again and wanting to continue teaching.
Again, thanks for taking the time to give me so much information!
Again, thanks for taking the time to give me so much information!
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
It's been a long time since I visited these shores, but I didn't know Psyguy, aka Dave Jaw, had been granted parole halfway through his sentence for offering dodgy advice on websites.
Please note that the PGCEi is NOT a teaching qualification, it is an enrichment qualification designed to adorn your resume. Nottingham say exactly this on their website:
"Qualified Teacher Status in England and Wales is conferred by the Teaching Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State for Education (England) and the Minister for Education and Skills (Wales) not by universities. This PGCEi does not therefore offer a licence to teach in the UK or elsewhere."
Of course some really poor schools will accept this and try to bluff local authorities that the teacher is genuinely qualified, but this is most definitely not the case.
Please note that the PGCEi is NOT a teaching qualification, it is an enrichment qualification designed to adorn your resume. Nottingham say exactly this on their website:
"Qualified Teacher Status in England and Wales is conferred by the Teaching Agency on behalf of the Secretary of State for Education (England) and the Minister for Education and Skills (Wales) not by universities. This PGCEi does not therefore offer a licence to teach in the UK or elsewhere."
Of course some really poor schools will accept this and try to bluff local authorities that the teacher is genuinely qualified, but this is most definitely not the case.
Reply
::giggle:: Parole
YAY The League of PsyGuy Nemesis is back!!!
@leipanga
Its sorta true that the PGCEi does not allow you to practice as a teacher in regulated schools in the UK (sorta in the sense that it doesnt), but your not interested in teaching there. There are plenty of PGCEi ITs teaching in lower tier ISs world wide. Many PGCE recipients due to the market in the UK never complete induction. Its only sorta true in that to earn QTS in the UK with a PGCEi you would have to essentially complete induction. The new 2012 induction guidelines allow you to do induction at any DfE accredited overseas British school that has been inspected within the last four years with a rating of satisfactory or better. Meaning you could do it overseas locally in SK or elsewhere, and youd be doing it while working at the school. You could then apply for QTS.
Its moot really though as I wrote before (unless thats your preference) you can transfer a PGCEi back to the states for a state teaching certificate and then if you choose apply, for QTS based on the US teaching certificate. It works pretty easily and I know a number of teachers who have done this. You want to apply as a foreign out of country applicant to D.C. (District of Columbia). D.C. has two ways of assessing qualifications of foreign teachers 1) is an foreign credential evaluation done by NACES, these agencies base their review on review and evaluation of transcripts which having a Uni. Nottingham graduate (the PGCEi courses are at Masters level) transcript with a year of coursework on it, is pretty likely to meet the requirements on its own. If someone was having a bad day then 2) D.C. also offers a direct transcript review and your one year of study meets their professional education preparation requirements. Before applying you would have to take the Praxis I (Principals of Learning and Teaching) and the Praxis II exams (elementary and/or English). This testing approach is high convenient in that the Praxis can be taken globally including in SK (there are three test centers in SK). The application fee is $50 to D.C. plus the cost of credential evaluation and the criminal background check. The Praxis exams are about $150 each.
After you receive the D.C. teaching certification you can then submit the application (no cost) to the UK Teaching College for your full QTS qualification if you wish.
Another much easier option is to get certified now. Based on your previous message I recall you were teaching in the Peace Corp, assuming your assignment was a teaching position for 18 months and your duties were teaching related for half that time. You are already eligible for certification, immediately in California. California will issue you a 5 year preliminary certificate based on your Peace Corp teaching experience as a substitute for a professional educator preparation program. You can find the informational document link here:
http://www.ctc.ca.gov/credentials/leaflets/cl535.pdf
You can request fingerprint cards from California (free) have your prints done and then for $120 (application and fingerprints) apply for certification now. The problem is that a preliminary CA credential is like a time bomb. The certificate cant be renewed and you would have to complete the requirements for a CLEAR credential which would include completing a CA induction program essentially in CA (there is no available online program for CA induction). You would still be a full licensed teacher now and for 5 years.
You would then try to take the CA credential and transfer it to one of two places. If you started now and where really quick you could apply before 1 July, 2015 to Hawaii for a standard certification. They may issue you a standard certificate, in which case your done. PGCE candidates for HI certification have been successful, the PGCEi has not been tested under reviewed yet. Applying for Hawaii certification costs nothing and the application process is just a print out of your CA preliminary certificate and an application. They would inform you what they would issue before requiring any fees (it is $240 for 5 years, and is renewable), and if they dont issue you a standard certificate than you arent out anything.
If Hawaii didnt work out you would than use a similar version of the process described above to apply for a D.C. certification, except that you would not need the foreign credential evaluation but you would be required to take an additional Praxis Core (Academic Skills Test) exam, which you could also take in Korea. This would give you a full renewable US teaching credential. You could then apply for QTS or transfer the D.C. certification to other states based on their certification requirements.
Another consideration however would be to pursue the CA CLEAR credential. California certification is highly marketable in Asia (CA drives the WASC accreditation paradigm) and the CLEAR credential is renewable without doing any PD. Though none of the programs have an online induction option at this time. D.C. is pretty laxed about what they accept for PD renewal.
YAY The League of PsyGuy Nemesis is back!!!
@leipanga
Its sorta true that the PGCEi does not allow you to practice as a teacher in regulated schools in the UK (sorta in the sense that it doesnt), but your not interested in teaching there. There are plenty of PGCEi ITs teaching in lower tier ISs world wide. Many PGCE recipients due to the market in the UK never complete induction. Its only sorta true in that to earn QTS in the UK with a PGCEi you would have to essentially complete induction. The new 2012 induction guidelines allow you to do induction at any DfE accredited overseas British school that has been inspected within the last four years with a rating of satisfactory or better. Meaning you could do it overseas locally in SK or elsewhere, and youd be doing it while working at the school. You could then apply for QTS.
Its moot really though as I wrote before (unless thats your preference) you can transfer a PGCEi back to the states for a state teaching certificate and then if you choose apply, for QTS based on the US teaching certificate. It works pretty easily and I know a number of teachers who have done this. You want to apply as a foreign out of country applicant to D.C. (District of Columbia). D.C. has two ways of assessing qualifications of foreign teachers 1) is an foreign credential evaluation done by NACES, these agencies base their review on review and evaluation of transcripts which having a Uni. Nottingham graduate (the PGCEi courses are at Masters level) transcript with a year of coursework on it, is pretty likely to meet the requirements on its own. If someone was having a bad day then 2) D.C. also offers a direct transcript review and your one year of study meets their professional education preparation requirements. Before applying you would have to take the Praxis I (Principals of Learning and Teaching) and the Praxis II exams (elementary and/or English). This testing approach is high convenient in that the Praxis can be taken globally including in SK (there are three test centers in SK). The application fee is $50 to D.C. plus the cost of credential evaluation and the criminal background check. The Praxis exams are about $150 each.
After you receive the D.C. teaching certification you can then submit the application (no cost) to the UK Teaching College for your full QTS qualification if you wish.
Another much easier option is to get certified now. Based on your previous message I recall you were teaching in the Peace Corp, assuming your assignment was a teaching position for 18 months and your duties were teaching related for half that time. You are already eligible for certification, immediately in California. California will issue you a 5 year preliminary certificate based on your Peace Corp teaching experience as a substitute for a professional educator preparation program. You can find the informational document link here:
http://www.ctc.ca.gov/credentials/leaflets/cl535.pdf
You can request fingerprint cards from California (free) have your prints done and then for $120 (application and fingerprints) apply for certification now. The problem is that a preliminary CA credential is like a time bomb. The certificate cant be renewed and you would have to complete the requirements for a CLEAR credential which would include completing a CA induction program essentially in CA (there is no available online program for CA induction). You would still be a full licensed teacher now and for 5 years.
You would then try to take the CA credential and transfer it to one of two places. If you started now and where really quick you could apply before 1 July, 2015 to Hawaii for a standard certification. They may issue you a standard certificate, in which case your done. PGCE candidates for HI certification have been successful, the PGCEi has not been tested under reviewed yet. Applying for Hawaii certification costs nothing and the application process is just a print out of your CA preliminary certificate and an application. They would inform you what they would issue before requiring any fees (it is $240 for 5 years, and is renewable), and if they dont issue you a standard certificate than you arent out anything.
If Hawaii didnt work out you would than use a similar version of the process described above to apply for a D.C. certification, except that you would not need the foreign credential evaluation but you would be required to take an additional Praxis Core (Academic Skills Test) exam, which you could also take in Korea. This would give you a full renewable US teaching credential. You could then apply for QTS or transfer the D.C. certification to other states based on their certification requirements.
Another consideration however would be to pursue the CA CLEAR credential. California certification is highly marketable in Asia (CA drives the WASC accreditation paradigm) and the CLEAR credential is renewable without doing any PD. Though none of the programs have an online induction option at this time. D.C. is pretty laxed about what they accept for PD renewal.
Re: What's it like at the bottom of the barrel?
Dave Jaw, I'm going to tell your parole officer.
"Its only sorta true in that to earn QTS in the UK with a PGCEi you would have to essentially complete induction. The new 2012 induction guidelines allow you to do induction at any DfE accredited overseas British school that has been inspected within the last four years with a rating of satisfactory or better."
This is really dodgy advice! You cannot validate a Nottingham PGCEi by sending them evidence of "induction". They would laugh at you. You need to take a PGCE. If that's your bag, try University of Sunderland, which offers an online course with supervision for the practicum. Do NOT spend money on a PGCEi thinking that it will qualify you to teach at an international school.
I don't know whether you can translate this to state teaching cert in the USA. Dave got his umpteen certifications from Texas, where it seems like reading a book for ten minutes allows you to claim subject mastery, so maybe it's true - but as is always the case with DJ you need to sprinkle his recommendations with a wagonload of salt!
"Its only sorta true in that to earn QTS in the UK with a PGCEi you would have to essentially complete induction. The new 2012 induction guidelines allow you to do induction at any DfE accredited overseas British school that has been inspected within the last four years with a rating of satisfactory or better."
This is really dodgy advice! You cannot validate a Nottingham PGCEi by sending them evidence of "induction". They would laugh at you. You need to take a PGCE. If that's your bag, try University of Sunderland, which offers an online course with supervision for the practicum. Do NOT spend money on a PGCEi thinking that it will qualify you to teach at an international school.
I don't know whether you can translate this to state teaching cert in the USA. Dave got his umpteen certifications from Texas, where it seems like reading a book for ten minutes allows you to claim subject mastery, so maybe it's true - but as is always the case with DJ you need to sprinkle his recommendations with a wagonload of salt!
Reply
@Walter
Cant wait and you dont know what you think you know.
Its not dodgy when its true, and according to the teachers college a PGCEi educator can qualify for QTS by completing induction. What they dont get is NQT status prior to full QTS. There is also an assessment only pathway to QTS.
It certainly will qualify you to teach at lower tier ISs.
Dont be jelli.
Cant wait and you dont know what you think you know.
Its not dodgy when its true, and according to the teachers college a PGCEi educator can qualify for QTS by completing induction. What they dont get is NQT status prior to full QTS. There is also an assessment only pathway to QTS.
It certainly will qualify you to teach at lower tier ISs.
Dont be jelli.
Last edited by PsyGuy on Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.