Looking for constructive, professional replies only:
I am new to international teaching, have been offered a 2-year contract. If I go and after one school year decide overseas teaching is not a fit, can I say I don't want to come back the next year? How far in advance does someone usually need to let a school know something like this? I'm not going in with the intention of leaving, but am curious how that works. I'm assuming people have done it, but would like some inside perspective. Thanks.
Ending a contract early...
Re: Ending a contract early...
Typically you would sign an initial 2 year contract. If you have connected to a school through search or another agency the school has paid a nearly $2000 fee to employ you. Leaving after one year you would typically be liable for that fee plus lose any contract completion bonuses (moving allowance, flights etc.) Some schools would also want you to pay back all or part of any signing bonuses (flights, relocation, settling in etc). That said some schools will be ok with if it is clear to both parties that international living is not for you they may be willing to negotiate with early notice. MY school allowed someone to leave last year after one year (no shipping but no additional penalties). There are no guarantees though.
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tommypizza
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:35 am
Re: Ending a contract early...
Depends on the school...if the school is FOR profit, they will probably stick you with something...like not pay your airfare or shipping home...maybe try to reclaim any recruiting costs and screw you out of a paycheck. A good non-profit will likely release you with some type of leaving benefit if not full benefits. Sometimes it depends on the laws of the host country...and they might not tell you that unless you ask.
Many first time overseas teachers have this same concern...I did! Don't worry about it. Just go and expand yourself. You will not regret it!
Many first time overseas teachers have this same concern...I did! Don't worry about it. Just go and expand yourself. You will not regret it!
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
Re: Ending a contract early...
I would erase your posts if I were you. This post plus your other one would make you pretty easy to identify, and could anger the school.
Re: Ending a contract early...
Thanks for the feedback! As I said, I have no intention of backing out of the contract, I was just wondering how that would work if it truly was not a fit. I appreciate the honesty.
Response
@erbear79
Understand that many ISs require notice of leave around Octoberish, so you would be submitting your intent to leave your position after only a couple months at most. An admin may well dismiss then and there someone who attempted that. It would be more stable to hire someone for the rest of the year and next year than keep someone around who was leaving so quickly.
If resigned before your term of service matures or expires, you would essentially be breaking contract. The ISs policy may reduce or eliminate some or all of your end of contract benefits such as flights, shipping, bonuses, etc. You would likely also have to pay the placement fee back to your premium agency, and they may bar you from their service for some time. Lastly, breaking contract may adversely and negatively effect your reference as well as your license for contract abandonment.
Understand that many ISs require notice of leave around Octoberish, so you would be submitting your intent to leave your position after only a couple months at most. An admin may well dismiss then and there someone who attempted that. It would be more stable to hire someone for the rest of the year and next year than keep someone around who was leaving so quickly.
If resigned before your term of service matures or expires, you would essentially be breaking contract. The ISs policy may reduce or eliminate some or all of your end of contract benefits such as flights, shipping, bonuses, etc. You would likely also have to pay the placement fee back to your premium agency, and they may bar you from their service for some time. Lastly, breaking contract may adversely and negatively effect your reference as well as your license for contract abandonment.
Re: Ending a contract early...
If you really doubt that it is a good move then in all fairness don't accept the job.
As for breaking a contract after arrival, personally I think this is only defensible if your safety/life is at risk if you stay or is the school breaks the terms of the contract (failing to pay, illegally changing conditions, bullying, etc). Not everyone might agree with me on this but those are my deal-breakers and they would apply at home and overseas.
As for breaking a contract after arrival, personally I think this is only defensible if your safety/life is at risk if you stay or is the school breaks the terms of the contract (failing to pay, illegally changing conditions, bullying, etc). Not everyone might agree with me on this but those are my deal-breakers and they would apply at home and overseas.
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tommypizza
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:35 am
Re: Ending a contract early...
You will not lose your license for "contract abandonment" at an international school...at least not if you are licensed in the USA. No stateside licensing authority would ever find out and wouldn't care anyway. A license isn't even required to teach abroad.
Taking a runner on a contract could adversely affect your chances to get another international job...but if you don't like living abroad, you probably won't be seeking another posting.
It's normal to feel anxious about your big move and completely normal to wonder "what if...?" Think positive and don't look back.
Taking a runner on a contract could adversely affect your chances to get another international job...but if you don't like living abroad, you probably won't be seeking another posting.
It's normal to feel anxious about your big move and completely normal to wonder "what if...?" Think positive and don't look back.
Reply
@tommypizza
A license is certainly required, saying otherwise is crazy talk. There are schools at the bottom tier that will hire anyone with a pulse, and their is some grey area between ESOL instructors and professional teachers, and some para professional providing instructional services, but in the vast majority of cases either by government regulations or institutional policy you need a professional teaching license to teach.
That is utterly merit less. The licensing authority could VERY easily find out should the admin at the abandoned school choose to notify them, and its not difficult to do so. They certainly would care, depending on the state and their workload, many investigators have very little to do, so taking such cases justifies their job. Maybe not the first time but if multiple complaints are made someones going to take interest in the case.
I consistently reported teachers who broke contract either by email or the agencies web form. About half of them followed up with me and several were sanctioned.
@Nomad68
The key to that argument/those conditions is what constitutes breaking the contract. If a school agrees to pay you on such a day and they are always late, is one day defensible, is a weekend, a week, what if they are consistently late? Would a clause in a contract allowing ownership to readjust the salary scale, and you arrive and the enrollment has fallen and they cut salaries for everyone is that breach of contract, you agreed to the terms including the policy, but your getting maybe a lot less than you bargained for, and it wouldnt be illegal. Very few unilateral contract modifications rise to the level of being illegal, ISs leave themselves outs in contracts.
In the majority of runner cases Ive seen and heard there was always some level of misrepresentation/fraud/abuse from the IS.
A license is certainly required, saying otherwise is crazy talk. There are schools at the bottom tier that will hire anyone with a pulse, and their is some grey area between ESOL instructors and professional teachers, and some para professional providing instructional services, but in the vast majority of cases either by government regulations or institutional policy you need a professional teaching license to teach.
That is utterly merit less. The licensing authority could VERY easily find out should the admin at the abandoned school choose to notify them, and its not difficult to do so. They certainly would care, depending on the state and their workload, many investigators have very little to do, so taking such cases justifies their job. Maybe not the first time but if multiple complaints are made someones going to take interest in the case.
I consistently reported teachers who broke contract either by email or the agencies web form. About half of them followed up with me and several were sanctioned.
@Nomad68
The key to that argument/those conditions is what constitutes breaking the contract. If a school agrees to pay you on such a day and they are always late, is one day defensible, is a weekend, a week, what if they are consistently late? Would a clause in a contract allowing ownership to readjust the salary scale, and you arrive and the enrollment has fallen and they cut salaries for everyone is that breach of contract, you agreed to the terms including the policy, but your getting maybe a lot less than you bargained for, and it wouldnt be illegal. Very few unilateral contract modifications rise to the level of being illegal, ISs leave themselves outs in contracts.
In the majority of runner cases Ive seen and heard there was always some level of misrepresentation/fraud/abuse from the IS.
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tommypizza
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:35 am
Re: Ending a contract early...
Ok...yeah, no one is likely to get hired without a license but a license is not required except when its the law or required for work visa. Technically, a license is not required to teach in a private school.
No state office of public instruction is going to listen to a grumpy administrator from wherever international school. Taking a runner on an international contract is no reason to pull someone's license...they have more important things to do. International admin do have large egos, but they cannot harm your stateside licenses.
No state office of public instruction is going to listen to a grumpy administrator from wherever international school. Taking a runner on an international contract is no reason to pull someone's license...they have more important things to do. International admin do have large egos, but they cannot harm your stateside licenses.
Reply
@tommypizza
We disagree
You need a license either in technical, practice, or utility.
They dont know your grumpy, submission is by email or web-form, and all you have to do is use the term "misconduct". They dont have better things to do. It is a reason to sanction someones license its called "contract abandonment"
We disagree
You need a license either in technical, practice, or utility.
They dont know your grumpy, submission is by email or web-form, and all you have to do is use the term "misconduct". They dont have better things to do. It is a reason to sanction someones license its called "contract abandonment"
Re: Ending a contract early...
Psyguy:
Speaking only for UK private schools and free schools, you are wrong. A teaching licence/qualification/whatever is not necessary in order to teach in those schools. It might make it more difficult to get a job but not by much. I can see getting a working visa being tricky without a teaching qualification but probably not impossible. Certainly I know at least two teachers in my current UK boarding school who are not qualified as teachers, not working towards qualification and who are either a head of department or a housemaster and both have full teaching loads.
You have made a blanket statement about needing a teaching licence to teach and this does not apply in all schools worldwide.
Waits for inevitable reply insisting the sky is green....
Speaking only for UK private schools and free schools, you are wrong. A teaching licence/qualification/whatever is not necessary in order to teach in those schools. It might make it more difficult to get a job but not by much. I can see getting a working visa being tricky without a teaching qualification but probably not impossible. Certainly I know at least two teachers in my current UK boarding school who are not qualified as teachers, not working towards qualification and who are either a head of department or a housemaster and both have full teaching loads.
You have made a blanket statement about needing a teaching licence to teach and this does not apply in all schools worldwide.
Waits for inevitable reply insisting the sky is green....
Reply
@pds86
Ever hear of a "green flash"?
My post was not referring to working in domestic schools, nor was it referring to working in all schools world wide. The context was in IE with ITs and ISs. In which case as I previously wrote in summary that "in technical, practice or utility" an IT needs a professional teaching qualification. Exploring those three issues: It is an accurate generalization for ITs involved in IE.
1) The IT labor pool is saturated, and ISs can choose be selective resulting in competition for vacancies. Professional credentials add value and marketability of a candidates application. When undergoing selection those without professional qualifications as ISs are viewed as inferior to hose with them. This si not an issue of pathological example where the applicant pool is full of noobs and entry level ITs with one master IT who doesnt have a professional credential. ISs can get tens too hundreds too thousands of applications for a vacancy. The relative distinctions between candidates are often trivial. An IT with 9 years experience, degree, and qualification is going to be selected over the IT with 10 years experience, degree and NO qualification.
2) The host nation requires a qualification to obtain a work visa or permit, or the IS will not incur the cost and expense of securing a visa or permit without one. In other cases the work (teaching) to be done specifically requires a license to provide services and be eligible for employment in the field (teaching), such as other regulated professions.
3) The ISs accrediting body requires a significant portion of the professional staff to have professional. This portion varies, but with access to credentialed and uncredentialed candidate the credentialed candidate is the less risky and safer choice.
4) ISs are private/independent institutions, they must compete in the market for tuition. Credentialed staff are far more marketable in advertising and marketing literate to perspective parents and students. "100% of our teachers and staff are licensed professional educators" is a far stronger position that any other number. An IS that advertises 70% or 50% is not impressing anyone.
5) ISs may be run by boards of parents or community members with policies that are very restricted or not open to recruiting practices that would permit an admin/HOS from hiring an IT without a professional credential.
An IT would find it very unlikely (id argue practically impossible) to secure entry permission and a teaching position in a UK independent school with out a professional qualification. 1) Why would the school bother when there are professionally credentialed candidates available. 2) They would be paying a lot for such an individual. 2) The immigration requirements would be very high for the school to justify the time and expense (without a credential, why cant a local perform the job).
Ever hear of a "green flash"?
My post was not referring to working in domestic schools, nor was it referring to working in all schools world wide. The context was in IE with ITs and ISs. In which case as I previously wrote in summary that "in technical, practice or utility" an IT needs a professional teaching qualification. Exploring those three issues: It is an accurate generalization for ITs involved in IE.
1) The IT labor pool is saturated, and ISs can choose be selective resulting in competition for vacancies. Professional credentials add value and marketability of a candidates application. When undergoing selection those without professional qualifications as ISs are viewed as inferior to hose with them. This si not an issue of pathological example where the applicant pool is full of noobs and entry level ITs with one master IT who doesnt have a professional credential. ISs can get tens too hundreds too thousands of applications for a vacancy. The relative distinctions between candidates are often trivial. An IT with 9 years experience, degree, and qualification is going to be selected over the IT with 10 years experience, degree and NO qualification.
2) The host nation requires a qualification to obtain a work visa or permit, or the IS will not incur the cost and expense of securing a visa or permit without one. In other cases the work (teaching) to be done specifically requires a license to provide services and be eligible for employment in the field (teaching), such as other regulated professions.
3) The ISs accrediting body requires a significant portion of the professional staff to have professional. This portion varies, but with access to credentialed and uncredentialed candidate the credentialed candidate is the less risky and safer choice.
4) ISs are private/independent institutions, they must compete in the market for tuition. Credentialed staff are far more marketable in advertising and marketing literate to perspective parents and students. "100% of our teachers and staff are licensed professional educators" is a far stronger position that any other number. An IS that advertises 70% or 50% is not impressing anyone.
5) ISs may be run by boards of parents or community members with policies that are very restricted or not open to recruiting practices that would permit an admin/HOS from hiring an IT without a professional credential.
An IT would find it very unlikely (id argue practically impossible) to secure entry permission and a teaching position in a UK independent school with out a professional qualification. 1) Why would the school bother when there are professionally credentialed candidates available. 2) They would be paying a lot for such an individual. 2) The immigration requirements would be very high for the school to justify the time and expense (without a credential, why cant a local perform the job).
Re: Ending a contract early...
That's not necessarily the case. For example, I know of plenty of sports staff who come in from NZ, SA etc to coach sports like rugby, hockey etc where the UK talent pool is less in depth and also teach PE (both academic and 'games') or indeed other subjects. No teaching qualification at all yet they land jobs teaching.
Why would the school bother? Probably because a teaching qualification is no guarantee of effective teaching. I have one but I'd argue that the vast majority of what I do I picked up on the job. Most of what I 'learned' during my PGCE I discarded after one or two years. One of the best teachers I know has no formal qualification in teaching yet he is excellent.
As for your final point that there are plenty of locally trained teachers with a qualification who could do the job. So anyone from overseas with a credential would, based on your logic, not have a hope in hell. Which is patently not true.
Your posts remind me of something I should have remembered when it comes to online forums: don't feed the troll. You are clearly a troll as your comments on the Bantlemann case show. I'm not going to waste time debating with someone who clearly has no inclination to change their opinion. In fact, I wonder if there is a single documented case of you changing your opinion on this forum? I'd hazard a guess that you very, very rarely admit you're wrong.
Why would the school bother? Probably because a teaching qualification is no guarantee of effective teaching. I have one but I'd argue that the vast majority of what I do I picked up on the job. Most of what I 'learned' during my PGCE I discarded after one or two years. One of the best teachers I know has no formal qualification in teaching yet he is excellent.
As for your final point that there are plenty of locally trained teachers with a qualification who could do the job. So anyone from overseas with a credential would, based on your logic, not have a hope in hell. Which is patently not true.
Your posts remind me of something I should have remembered when it comes to online forums: don't feed the troll. You are clearly a troll as your comments on the Bantlemann case show. I'm not going to waste time debating with someone who clearly has no inclination to change their opinion. In fact, I wonder if there is a single documented case of you changing your opinion on this forum? I'd hazard a guess that you very, very rarely admit you're wrong.
Reply
@pds86
Now youre just reaching. Yes ISs and domestic schools recruit sports staff without credentials, but this is misleading. While these individuals dont have professional educator qualifications they do have various couching qualifications and association memberships and recognition in their respective sports. They are specialists and the positions they are being hired for are "coaches" who also teach some PE, they arent "teachers doing some coaching".
A number of ISs in JP for example hire experts in Japanese dance and various cultural skills such as flower arranging and tea ceremony, and yes they "teach" but they are expert specialists assigned teaching tasks, they arent "professional" teachers.
Yes a teaching credential is no guarantee of effective teaching, a lack of a credential is also no guarantee of effective teaching. The credential DOES demonstrate satisfactory training in meds/peds with observable classroom performance that at the time of the observation was satisfactory. PGCE, QTS, and other educator credentialing programs have standards and completion criteria, and while they cant predict success or competence in the future they do indicate that program completion criteria were met to some standard. Ill take that over nothing. I know many, many scholars and practitioners who are very accomplished in their fields but they cant transfer knowledge.
My final point was that without the requirement of a credential an IS would have a difficult time justifying the need of an overseas hire, since there is no difference between "any local" with a degree and "any foreigner" with a degree, the credential is what makes the difference between a professional educator and one who is not.
Ive been wrong before (I recently acknowledged being wrong in regard to the CA induction program, had zero idea it was available online spent 2 days sending emails and making calls).
I consider my positions sufficiently strong to withstand debate. I'm very open to changing my mind, I believe always being right means always being willing to change your mind, adapt to changes and being flexible with data interpretation and -. What I am not open to doing is substituting one opinion for another opinion, based on fiating opposing claims.
I very rarely am wrong, most material on this forum is perception, opinion and experience. One persons experience and opinion is not a reflection of reality, its a perception of reality for them. One person thinks an IS, HOS, region is awesome, another thinks the opposite, neither of them is wrong, they are right for themselves. Thats really what this forum does and which I strongly advocate for, in that we need more contributions not fewer, I would really hate my opinion to stand on its own without the review of discourse. I know my view, opinion, and conclusions are not the only ones that are valid.
The Bantelman issue is an excellent example. All the views and discussions (mine included) are just opinions. Only a few people "KNOW" what the reality is, the fact in this matter is that the accused were found guilty, thats a fact. The positions and perceptions on the strength or weakness of the evidence and the format and proceeding of the investigation and trial are just opinions.
Now youre just reaching. Yes ISs and domestic schools recruit sports staff without credentials, but this is misleading. While these individuals dont have professional educator qualifications they do have various couching qualifications and association memberships and recognition in their respective sports. They are specialists and the positions they are being hired for are "coaches" who also teach some PE, they arent "teachers doing some coaching".
A number of ISs in JP for example hire experts in Japanese dance and various cultural skills such as flower arranging and tea ceremony, and yes they "teach" but they are expert specialists assigned teaching tasks, they arent "professional" teachers.
Yes a teaching credential is no guarantee of effective teaching, a lack of a credential is also no guarantee of effective teaching. The credential DOES demonstrate satisfactory training in meds/peds with observable classroom performance that at the time of the observation was satisfactory. PGCE, QTS, and other educator credentialing programs have standards and completion criteria, and while they cant predict success or competence in the future they do indicate that program completion criteria were met to some standard. Ill take that over nothing. I know many, many scholars and practitioners who are very accomplished in their fields but they cant transfer knowledge.
My final point was that without the requirement of a credential an IS would have a difficult time justifying the need of an overseas hire, since there is no difference between "any local" with a degree and "any foreigner" with a degree, the credential is what makes the difference between a professional educator and one who is not.
Ive been wrong before (I recently acknowledged being wrong in regard to the CA induction program, had zero idea it was available online spent 2 days sending emails and making calls).
I consider my positions sufficiently strong to withstand debate. I'm very open to changing my mind, I believe always being right means always being willing to change your mind, adapt to changes and being flexible with data interpretation and -. What I am not open to doing is substituting one opinion for another opinion, based on fiating opposing claims.
I very rarely am wrong, most material on this forum is perception, opinion and experience. One persons experience and opinion is not a reflection of reality, its a perception of reality for them. One person thinks an IS, HOS, region is awesome, another thinks the opposite, neither of them is wrong, they are right for themselves. Thats really what this forum does and which I strongly advocate for, in that we need more contributions not fewer, I would really hate my opinion to stand on its own without the review of discourse. I know my view, opinion, and conclusions are not the only ones that are valid.
The Bantelman issue is an excellent example. All the views and discussions (mine included) are just opinions. Only a few people "KNOW" what the reality is, the fact in this matter is that the accused were found guilty, thats a fact. The positions and perceptions on the strength or weakness of the evidence and the format and proceeding of the investigation and trial are just opinions.