Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

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joanveronica
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:14 pm

Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by joanveronica »

Aloha All,
I'm just curious if anyone here has worked in Italy. I know Italy (and Europe) are a far reach for my husband and I however just how out of reach is it? We are willing to go just about anywhere but Italy is our first choice. Anyone?
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

What are your resumes like? Do you have EU passports? Are you tourist teachers? Do you have kids?

Having an EU passport would make a big difference, if you have them you can get to Italy, either a 3rd tier school, a bilingual school or teaching ESOL, you can make it happen.
If you are just a couple of tourist teachers who want to live the Mediterranean high life in Italia, than your going to be in a VERY large pool of people that want to reside in a romance country/region. Everyone wants to end up in a European romance country or one of the Asian little tigers. You dont walk into Italy, its a destination you plan on and generally start at the bottom and work your way up.
If you have 2 kids or more you will have serious problems affording to live in Italy especially after your first two years. Your first year tax rate is 9% your second year 11% and then your third year and beyond your tax rate is about 40%. Lower tier ISs in Italy pay about 2500€. You also pay taxes on any tuition placements (and they are valued at about 10K€). With two salaries making 5K€ you would have about 3K€ left over after taxes, and a 3LDK apartment will run you about half of that (1500€) but you could spend easily spend more. Utilities (electric,water, waste, internet) will run you about 250€ and another 200€ combined for mobile (either two good plans with data for 2 adults or 4 basic plans for you and 2 kids). Transportation will run you at least 40€/each for a pass (but most people spend closer to twice that depending if you get a scooter, car, or taxis), thats about 100€ for two. If you eat cheap, continental breakfast, school lunch, and pasta at home you can eat for about 8€/day/person, 10€ at a minimum if you lack monk level discipline, and in Italy its really hard to not want to eat well. Thats about 250€ (and really Id be miserable on that budget) you would realize some incremental and economy of scale savings that 2 adults would need about 450€ and another 150€ for each child (they get free lunch at school). The budget breaker is going to be the taxes on those tuition placements they are taxed as regular income and at a 10K€ value that means you pay about 4K€ per/year/waiver you get a couple thousand Euro tax credit per child which still leaves you paying about 200€/month/waiver for the tax on tuition. Some parents send their kids to Euro-School (public) just to avoid the tax cost.
ffmary
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:19 am

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by ffmary »

Yes, I lived there and worked there. It takes a real love of Italy to enjoy it, as most of the schools in the country are retched and pay and benefits are even worse. Currently, each of the big international schools in each big city has its own idiosyncratic problems. My favorite - sort of like my favorite illness to get is a cold and not flu, bronchitis, or pneumonia - is St. Stephen's School in Rome. Most intellectual (owing to the fact that it is upper school only and draws from very cosmopolitan families, as it is right next to the UN building in Rome) for sure. Otherwise, go ready to enjoy Italy but not get too emotionally involved in how horrible your school is or co-workers are or the fact that you are paid so little. I love Italy, I mean LOVE. But even I could not last long working there. TASIS Switzerland is the one to aim for if you want Italy. It is in Switzerland (!), right across the lake from Italy. The Italy of your dreams is actually in Switzerland. Ciao.
joanveronica
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by joanveronica »

Thanks Psyguy and ffmary.

We do not have EU passports. We have a friend who graduated from TASIS Switzerland and raves about it. So that would definitely be ideal! We are planning for the 2016-17 school year.
Last edited by joanveronica on Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
joanveronica
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by joanveronica »

Psyguy, Just rereading your response. What is the difference between a teacher and a tourist teacher? Just want to clarify that my husband and I are teachers, we are educators, and we take our responsibility seriously. We are committed to our roles as educators AND we want to have a bit of a challenge and new experience. We are not going to accept a position just to see the sights.
PsyGuy
Posts: 10789
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@joanveronica

Not to offend you but thats what a tourist teacher is. Your not going for the job your going for the adventure and a lifestyle, and an IS/being an IT is how you plan to fund it. Its quite common a middle age couple wants to "travel" and do so while they are young enough to still do it and give the children some culture. The teaching is second, your not really interested in climbing the tiers (youd like to start out at the top tier) but really you just want to get too a particular foreign country and immerse yourself in that lifestyle. Youre going to go, take the money, see the sights, eat great food, make some friends and if things dont work out, youre going to shrug and go back to Hawaii.

Middle school/lower secondary qualifications have low marketability. Most ISs hire and prefer a secondary teacher who can do it all either 6-12 or K-12 in their teaching field, especially at the smaller lower tier schools. Social studies is a dime a dozen, everyone has that and the only value in it is those ITs who have exit qualification level experience and assessment performance.

Any vacancy an IS is searching to fill is "in demand", but art isnt very hard to find relative to many others. The design technology elements are a benefit.

The combination of an art teacher without IB or IS experience and a limited lower secondary only social studies with a dependent and with a focus on Italy, isnt a very marketable combination.
joanveronica
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by joanveronica »

Psyguy,
So what is the difference between you and I? Have you been at the same school 5+ years, or do you change every few? I'm fine with what ever label you want to put on me. Here in Hawaii, "tourist" is not a dirty word!
Last edited by joanveronica on Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
joanveronica
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by joanveronica »

Psyguy,
So what is the difference between you and I? Have you been at the same school 5+ years, or do you change every few? I'm fine with what ever label you want to put on me.

Also, I KNOW all of the negatives--I started this thread to see if anyone has actually been hired to teach in Italy. So far, only one person has (ffmary).
Last edited by joanveronica on Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
lifeisnotsobad
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by lifeisnotsobad »

Dear joanveronica,

Feel free to ignore 99% of anything that SighGuy has to say (and I am being generous with the 99%). A tourist teacher is quite simply someone who doesn't plan to stick around for very long. Most of us make our decisions based upon the school AND are going for the adventure and a lifestyle. I am a teacher, and so this is of course how I plan to fund my lifestyle. I have indeed planned moves to get to 'a particular foreign country' and 'immersed' myself in that lifestyle...and stayed there for 8 years...and then moved to another country that I really wanted to experience and stayed there for 9 years. During that time I have invested a huge amount into the school and (I believe) left that school with both parties having benefited from our relationship.

Of course, if things had not worked out I would have shrugged and gone somewhere else...and would have been very happy had that been Hawaii :-).

I have not worked in Italy...but can vouch for TASIS and Lugano...it really is the best of both worlds, although is a boarding school and you may have to be prepared to take on boarding duties.
Monkey
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:59 am

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by Monkey »

I worked in Italy in one of the smaller schools. I did it fresh out of college, and it was a wonderful, amazing, fabulous experience. I will never go back to teach in Italy, however. I'm now older and wiser and with different priorities (ie not being dirt poor). At my school, everyone lived with a roommate because there just wasn't enough money to get your own place. The only long timers were the Italian teachers and those who had married Italians. Otherwise, people moved on to better financial situations. And as for bringing along a child, I wouldn't have put my own child in that school because it was only filled with locals and being non-Italian would've caused a lot of social problems. This, however, might not be a problem at one of the larger, more international schools.

I will always hold a special place in my heart for Italy. But now I prefer to work elsewhere with a killer salary, and visit Italy on holidays.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

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Post by PsyGuy »

@joanveronica

Oh gosh no, definitely not 5 years. You cant really stay in Italy longer than two years without having amazing resources to fund your stay. The 40% tax rate your third year makes you basically broke.

Tourist teacher is a dirty word in IE because it weakens the control system of admin/management. You might leave sooner or later or stay and settle into a career but the control system in IE is about doing the bauble head and going along and getting along so that you can move up the tiers to that elite tier school that is going to afford you the opportunity to stay in your particular dream spot, and the reference is the tool that ISs use to maintain that order. You can move around all you want, but your not controllable if your not a career IT or "lifer". A tourist teacher can savor the memories, the travel, and the experience and then go back home to their domestic school, without consideration or worry about what their short term fleeting experience in IE was. If your not going on to the next IS, and you dont need the reference and youre not "settling" in the overseas region/location (you dont need the job), then that school has minimal "motivational opportunity" in managing you.
Thats why ISs dont like tourist teachers.
joanveronica
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by joanveronica »

Okay, I'll bite. So what you're saying is Tourist Teachers are a threat to IE lifers?
You say, "A tourist teacher can savor the memories, the travel, and the experience and then go back home to their domestic school, without consideration or worry about what their short term fleeting experience in IE was."


FWTW, we will be happy going to almost anywhere for two+ years. We are both at prestigious schools right now and are expecting to do our part in the "third tier".
Last edited by joanveronica on Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@joanveronica

No, tourist teachers are a threat to ISs.

You dont need to say anything, your resume says it all. Your resume tells me how long youve been educators and how old you are based on when you graduated and what your major was. You resume work experience and a few seconds on Google tell me you have positions at prestigious schools, and how long youve had them. So if your sitting down to an interview at some 2nd or 3rd tier Italian IS like IS Genoa or Trieste or the Bilingual S of Monza, I know exactly why your applying and its because you want to live in Italy.
You can think what you will of the intellectual capacity of recruiters, but they have well honed instincts.

Id argue its more than 80% but the key is "career" IE is a separate career from "education". To a tourist teacher IE is a mistress, a distraction, a transitional career phase, a correction to work/life balance, the rose on your pillow, the lace on the stockings. Just as a vacation or holiday is temporary and you can go home anytime. Compare that to a travel professional such as a flight attendant, the travel is the job, they dont have a career option alternative, career ITs are the same, they NEED the reference to move too the next rung on the IS ladder.
Every IT has their dream vision, where they want to be, what they want to be doing, and what they want to have, the chain of references and referrals is what moves them closer to that dream. "Home" isnt really an option either by design or practicality (I know MANY ITs that have been out of their home country so long that outside of a domestic private/independent school they dont know the laws, curriculum, testing mandates, etc. to function in a public/regulated school).

Exactly, you dont need the reference, or the job, because your exit plan is a forgone conclusion, you never had both feet in the water to begin with. Being a career IT is like being merr (as in merman or mermaid), the water the IE environment is a necessity, living out of the water isnt really an option.

Thats why ISs dont like tourist teachers.
Last edited by PsyGuy on Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
joanveronica
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by joanveronica »

Psyguy, I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE your metaphor! "To a tourist teacher IE is a mistress, a distraction, a transitional career phase, a correction to work/life balance. Just like a vacation or holiday is temporary and you can go home anytime." Perfect!!
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Has Anyone Worked in Italy?

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

The whole tourist teacher working in Italy theme is kind of ironic considering how long the one who coined the phrase stayed in Rome (hint, it was more than zero but less than two years). :D
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