While it is true that many schools that still have positions may be low paid and/or in undesirable locations, there are still some positions that pop up at Tier 1 schools or strong Tier 2 schools due to personal circumstances or change in enrolments. However - almost all of these better positions will be filled through Skype interviews or personal contacts.
These jobs are either advertised on the school website or the bigger job agencies (Search - ISS) apart from hard to find positions (Physics, certain electives etc).
Many people say that it's not worth working overseas due to low pay and a lack of retirement savings. For me - it all comes down to choosing your schools carefully and completing a lot of research along with keeping in contact with previous staff members.
It's pretty fair to say that most peoples first foray into International teaching is a crap shoot as you have no idea what the schools are really like. This only really comes through experience and speaking to people. I've been in international teaching for 5 or so years and it's now that I am starting to know enough people who know a bit about a certain school. But of course - those contacts can at times give bad advice but it's better than going in blind like your first school.
While I have not saved a lot of money in international teaching, this is mainly due to the amount of travel I have completed. For example in 2014 I visited: Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Vietnam, Thailand, Kazakhstan, UAE, Morocco, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary.
I've travelled less this year but am about to travel to Georgia and will travel to Japan (again) during the Summer vacation. I have however been able to significantly pay off debts this year.
I will say that not all teaching professions are created equal. For example, Science/Math teachers have it much better than Humanities or Elementary teachers. Having kids does limit which schools will employ you (apart from lower ranked Asian schools who want a non local face in the classroom) and so does not having a non-teaching spouse.
But there are still jobs out there which are worth applying for - but they are fewer and more far between.
A school that I worked for that had the 'best' perceived reputation out of the schools I have worked for employed me in April. However, I did join Search Associates late that year and they contacted my associate within 20 minutes of me contacting the school (meaning they were looking to move quick if they found someone appropriate).
So - put your chin up and there might be your dream job still out there (possibly). Just remember that peoples first job's can be a hard slog.....
Schools Still Searching
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Climberman
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:29 pm
Re: Schools Still Searching
It's not my first job. I have 8 years at 2 international schools - IB HL Math and MYP and TOK.
My Search Associate told me my recs were good.
My Search Associate told me my recs were good.
Response
The prospects of an IT have always been get to Europe and get a pension, take a placement at an elite tier school that allows savings and a retirement program or take the golden paycheck and retire somewhere dirt cheap to live. IE is growing at the bottom not the top, the number of ISs is getting larger but the upper tier schools are stagnate. This creates a bubble of demand with advancement/upward mobility that plateaus earlier in an ITs career. The capacity at upper tier schools doesnt exist to absorb the increased demand at lower tier schools. It is becoming harder to break into upper tier schools. As a result more ITs are returning domestically from IE when they realize their career is not going anywhere.
Tiers and prestige of a school are relative. The best ISs the elite top 10 ISs in the world are not better then domestic high quality private/independent schools. If you live in a major metro/cosmo city there are plenty of private schools that are as good if not better than the best ISs. As a result their compensation packages are comparable to what you would find as average in a domestic private school. Why should they offer more? Why pay more for the same level of successful. If $30K gets you a successful secondary math IT why pay 50% or twice that for a comparable level of performance. No one does that, and and admin that did would find themselves looking for a new job.
Recruiters and admins could do away with the fairs anytime they wanted too, they dont want them gone so they will stay as long as those recruiters and admins want them too.
Tiers and prestige of a school are relative. The best ISs the elite top 10 ISs in the world are not better then domestic high quality private/independent schools. If you live in a major metro/cosmo city there are plenty of private schools that are as good if not better than the best ISs. As a result their compensation packages are comparable to what you would find as average in a domestic private school. Why should they offer more? Why pay more for the same level of successful. If $30K gets you a successful secondary math IT why pay 50% or twice that for a comparable level of performance. No one does that, and and admin that did would find themselves looking for a new job.
Recruiters and admins could do away with the fairs anytime they wanted too, they dont want them gone so they will stay as long as those recruiters and admins want them too.
Re: Schools Still Searching
Spot on:
"The prospects of an IT have always been get to Europe and get a pension, take a placement at an elite tier school that allows savings and a retirement program or take the golden paycheck and retire somewhere dirt cheap to live. IE is growing at the bottom not the top, the number of ISs is getting larger but the upper tier schools are stagnate. This creates a bubble of demand with advancement/upward mobility that plateaus earlier in an ITs career. The capacity at upper tier schools doesnt exist to absorb the increased demand at lower tier schools. It is becoming harder to break into upper tier schools. As a result more ITs are returning domestically from IE when they realize their career is not going anywhere.
Tiers and prestige of a school are relative. The best ISs the elite top 10 ISs in the world are not better then domestic high quality private/independent schools. If you live in a major metro/cosmo city there are plenty of private schools that are as good if not better than the best ISs. As a result their compensation packages are comparable to what you would find as average in a domestic private school. Why should they offer more? Why pay more for the same level of successful. If $30K gets you a successful secondary math IT why pay 50% or twice that for a comparable level of performance. No one does that, and and admin that did would find themselves looking for a new job.
Recruiters and admins could do away with the fairs anytime they wanted too, they dont want them gone so they will stay as long as those recruiters and admins want them too."
"The prospects of an IT have always been get to Europe and get a pension, take a placement at an elite tier school that allows savings and a retirement program or take the golden paycheck and retire somewhere dirt cheap to live. IE is growing at the bottom not the top, the number of ISs is getting larger but the upper tier schools are stagnate. This creates a bubble of demand with advancement/upward mobility that plateaus earlier in an ITs career. The capacity at upper tier schools doesnt exist to absorb the increased demand at lower tier schools. It is becoming harder to break into upper tier schools. As a result more ITs are returning domestically from IE when they realize their career is not going anywhere.
Tiers and prestige of a school are relative. The best ISs the elite top 10 ISs in the world are not better then domestic high quality private/independent schools. If you live in a major metro/cosmo city there are plenty of private schools that are as good if not better than the best ISs. As a result their compensation packages are comparable to what you would find as average in a domestic private school. Why should they offer more? Why pay more for the same level of successful. If $30K gets you a successful secondary math IT why pay 50% or twice that for a comparable level of performance. No one does that, and and admin that did would find themselves looking for a new job.
Recruiters and admins could do away with the fairs anytime they wanted too, they dont want them gone so they will stay as long as those recruiters and admins want them too."
Re: Schools Still Searching
Psyguy:
You just pretty much said what I have been saying for the last few years: International Education is a game that only really benefits a chosen few.
I knew I could finally get you to see the light!
You just pretty much said what I have been saying for the last few years: International Education is a game that only really benefits a chosen few.
I knew I could finally get you to see the light!
Reply
@senator
We dont really agree. Your position is that IE only benefits a chosen few, as if the the elite tier ISs are the gold ring, and the ONLY ring. My position is that its a benefit to anyone as long as you have appropriate expectations. Your wants and needs just arent served well by IE, for many others they meet ITs wants and needs. Making the comparison of top tier schools to domestic private schools is not a negative characterization.
The reality is compared to a domestic regulated/public school. Not having to spend 8 weeks a year on test prep, and having to deal with disruptive students who dont want to learn, parents that believe their child does no wrong, or that the parents have no control over their children, with admin/management that are constantly in meetings and have no opportunity or resources to support their staff, IE is an Eden and Nirvanna. Id take MANY third tier schools over returning to a domestic school. Id go to the ME, even the Kingdom over returning to a title 1 inner city, at risk domestic school.
We dont really agree. Your position is that IE only benefits a chosen few, as if the the elite tier ISs are the gold ring, and the ONLY ring. My position is that its a benefit to anyone as long as you have appropriate expectations. Your wants and needs just arent served well by IE, for many others they meet ITs wants and needs. Making the comparison of top tier schools to domestic private schools is not a negative characterization.
The reality is compared to a domestic regulated/public school. Not having to spend 8 weeks a year on test prep, and having to deal with disruptive students who dont want to learn, parents that believe their child does no wrong, or that the parents have no control over their children, with admin/management that are constantly in meetings and have no opportunity or resources to support their staff, IE is an Eden and Nirvanna. Id take MANY third tier schools over returning to a domestic school. Id go to the ME, even the Kingdom over returning to a title 1 inner city, at risk domestic school.
Re: Schools Still Searching
Amen to that Psyguy!
My previous public school district in the SF Bay Area is cutting teacher salaries by 4%, increasing class sizes to 32, decreasing yet again school budgets, laying off 14 teachers, and this is all after they raked in $31m from the sale of a school property. The teachers haven't had pay raises in over 10yrs...not even a basic cost of living to match the county recommendation. Kids are actually pretty well behaved and the parents are supportive of their schools, they're just poor, working class and have no real power over their kids school District.
And don't get me started on the mess that is Common Core and its poor implementation, lack of teacher training about it, no relevent text books, etc. a disaster. Who is winning? Pearson. Who loses? The kids, again.
No thank you!
My previous public school district in the SF Bay Area is cutting teacher salaries by 4%, increasing class sizes to 32, decreasing yet again school budgets, laying off 14 teachers, and this is all after they raked in $31m from the sale of a school property. The teachers haven't had pay raises in over 10yrs...not even a basic cost of living to match the county recommendation. Kids are actually pretty well behaved and the parents are supportive of their schools, they're just poor, working class and have no real power over their kids school District.
And don't get me started on the mess that is Common Core and its poor implementation, lack of teacher training about it, no relevent text books, etc. a disaster. Who is winning? Pearson. Who loses? The kids, again.
No thank you!
Re: Reply
PsyGuy wrote:
>
> Not having
> to spend 8 weeks a year on test prep, and having to deal with disruptive
> students who dont want to learn, parents that believe their child does no
> wrong, or that the parents have no control over their children, with
> admin/management that are constantly in meetings and have no opportunity or
> resources to support their staff, IE is an Eden and Nirvanna. Id take MANY
> third tier schools over returning to a domestic school. Id go to the ME,
> even the Kingdom over returning to a title 1 inner city, at risk domestic
> school.
I wish I had read this sentiment when we first started looking for IE jobs! We laugh at how picky we were a year ago, based on what's been said here and in other reviews, and thinking we'd hold out for better countries. But now that it's later in the game? Oh man. We currently are in a blue-collar school where students are proudly rude, stubbornly apathetic, and "I'll just take the zero" is commonly heard. I'm used to it, but MAN. Just not having to deal with that anymore, regardless of tier, will be a huge breath of fresh air! And I am DONE listening to this country $h*t all over its teachers and blame us for all ills of society. /rant
>
> Not having
> to spend 8 weeks a year on test prep, and having to deal with disruptive
> students who dont want to learn, parents that believe their child does no
> wrong, or that the parents have no control over their children, with
> admin/management that are constantly in meetings and have no opportunity or
> resources to support their staff, IE is an Eden and Nirvanna. Id take MANY
> third tier schools over returning to a domestic school. Id go to the ME,
> even the Kingdom over returning to a title 1 inner city, at risk domestic
> school.
I wish I had read this sentiment when we first started looking for IE jobs! We laugh at how picky we were a year ago, based on what's been said here and in other reviews, and thinking we'd hold out for better countries. But now that it's later in the game? Oh man. We currently are in a blue-collar school where students are proudly rude, stubbornly apathetic, and "I'll just take the zero" is commonly heard. I'm used to it, but MAN. Just not having to deal with that anymore, regardless of tier, will be a huge breath of fresh air! And I am DONE listening to this country $h*t all over its teachers and blame us for all ills of society. /rant
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Schools Still Searching
Hear hear, MizMorton! I think that even teachers with stellar CVs start out on the circuit thinking they "deserve" a top school, in a location of their choice, and that based on their past experience, they won't "settle" for any less. If you talk to those who have been around awhile, they are much more in the know, target specific areas or schools, but many, if not most, are also quite willing to entertain other schools if the situation is the right fit for them.
Then you have the first timers (experienced teachers or no) who are pie in the sky, this is great, believe it all, sign on the dotted line type who arrive to find reality is quite different from fantasy. Can you spell RUNNER?
At least you are much better prepared for next year if nothing happens this year. Keep us posted!
shad
Then you have the first timers (experienced teachers or no) who are pie in the sky, this is great, believe it all, sign on the dotted line type who arrive to find reality is quite different from fantasy. Can you spell RUNNER?
At least you are much better prepared for next year if nothing happens this year. Keep us posted!
shad
Re: Schools Still Searching
Thanks Shad! Got an offer today, an hour after one of our top choices expressed interest... Stalling the offer until Top Choice gets back to us. When it rains, it pours. (Missy, I will respond to your PM, I promise! I just always write and then get that "can't post now" message, then I forget.) My point is, experienced teachers may huff at "lesser" schools that would still be amazing compared to where we are now (in the US). For example, we're considering a lot of places that don't pay much. Enough to travel but not enough to save. Right now, we don't make enough to travel OR save. You think we're going to pass up these opportunities?! But those schools wouldn't necessarily be recommended here because of the money.
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twoteachers
- Posts: 120
- Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:15 pm
Re: Schools Still Searching
So happy for you Morton!! I know the strain of not knowing is agonizing! Good luck...