Yunnan-Kunming

[LUWahoo]

Looks like Yunnan province is one of the lesser polluted areas in China, plenty of natural beauty to see, but I'm not finding much on nightlife, expat community, etc.

Anyone here with experience teaching in Yunnan Province, or more specifically, the city of Kunming?

[bludgeoned again]

Ok. This is very, very dated info. I lived in Kunming for over a year about 10 years ago. Back then there was a small expat community: mainly working in the tobacco industry (big money), or teaching (university ESL), and many many foreign students. I was teaching and studying. The big challenge was getting from Kunming to home: like America. I flew to HK a lot to get out. Otherwise, it was cheap to live, much much cheaper than Shanghai. For example, I paid 600 USD/ mo in Shanghai for an apt and 125USD/mo in Kunming: same size and similarly central location.

There are a lot of tourists, increasingly less backpackers and more local tourists. By the time I left, Dali was already turned into a fake Dali for the local (Chinese) tourists.

However, the local (Kunming) people were great: they didn't stare, they were friendly and helpful. It was easy to live there. I really loved the food. There are many many minorities represented in the city and contribute to a more colorful population. unfortunately, the city was already looking homogenized, like a mini Shanghai. Many wonderful, traditional houses were being bulldozed.

I know from a local friend who's still there that they are opening more and more international programs in local Kunming high schools.

Also look into Guiyang in Guizhou province, even more beautiful surrounding countryside.

Take care and I hope you take the leap.

[PsyGuy]

Air Quality wise its nothing like Beijing, but Beijing is a category all its own. If zombies ever evolve from humans, my bet is going to be Beijing is where that would happen.
Youre not finding much because there isnt much to find. There are more international programs growing but they are all for local nationals. Its not going to have much of a social scene outside a couple expat watering holes, and eating out, anything seedier is not going to be available to expats. Would be easy though to get a local GF English teacher or English student. Eating out or meeting at someone apartment for a downloaded movie or some cards maybe learn to play Mahjong. There are festivals often enough with music and some dancing, socialize with the locals.

[BM12]

I don't know about the international teaching market but spent a week there last July as a tourist. I would agree with the first reaction, there is quite the variety in food to be had, and indeed a lot of minorities. I've been to China quite some times and would say it is just another big Chinese city. Lots of people and not much different compared to Shanghai. It has quite a nice temperature year round though, they call it the city of eternal spring I believe. And certainly not much smog.

Also quite a lot of backpackers and people teaching ESL.

[LUWahoo]

Thank you all for the opinions/shared experiences, very helpful!

[mp321]

Just wanted to add my two cents. If you're looking to teach in China, Kunming/Yunnan is one of the best places to do it. It's one of the most beautiful areas in China. It's very diverse. The weather is great all year round. There is a comparatively large population of long-term foreigners in Yunnan because the province has a lot that appeals to Westerners.

That said, I've heard that salaries tend to be lower than in the big cities (which isn't necessarily a bad thing because the cost of living is much lower)

[eion_padraig]

I agree with mp321. Kunming is great. It's definitely seeing a lot of growth though. It now has a few subway lines and there were more foreign goods than I expected there to be, but there is still a lot of local character. It's at elevation, so even though it's far to the south it doesn't get unbearable hot. Snow would be a very, very rare occurrence, but it does happen.

In travels to Kunming, I've found folks to be super friendly (I was generally speaking Chinese to them). But the level of English is going to be lower than the Eastern cities. If you learned to speak Chinese a bit, the experience would be greatly enhanced.

There is a lot of foreign activity around Wen Lin Rd, near one of the universities, which also is a bar/cafe street. Again, a lot of the foreigners I met were travelers and ESL teachers. This is not going to be an area with as many international schools as Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, or the other 2nd tier eastern cities.

[PsyGuy]

Its a provincial city in the middle of nowhere (Yunnan is nowhere). There is nothing going on there, you get compensated a lot less for living amongst the people and culture, which is characterized by a lot of spitting on the ground. If you want clean air and nature go somewhere else like JP or SG and get all the nature the lifestyle and coin as well.

Is anyone in China who is Chinese not super friendly to westerners, assuming they arent busy with lives. Personally, I prefer people be a little less friendly, most times i just want to look at my iPhone and not be bothered with the "Hello how are you, my name is" and 7 question script they have practiced in some ESOL class/program.

Your social activity will involve a pint at the university public house with the same group of ITs you work with or the local ESOL instructors. Your daily routine will be go to work, stay late, have something to eat/drink, go home shower, and watch something you downloaded of the internet, and go to sleep. Your weekends will be sleeping in and laundry if your not leaving the city for the weekend.

[mp321]

To be fair, you get compensated less not for "living amongst the people" but for having a lower cost of living. If you've lived in China for a while, you'll know that spitting on the ground is something you'll see in every city, including Shanghai and Beijing. If that bothers anyone that much, China is probably not for you. I've traveled to quite a few cities in China and have found Kunming to be among the most foreign-friendly. As eion_padraig mentioned, wen lin road is a great area, with quite a few coffee shops and restaurants offering good food and drinks.

I actually hated Kunming the first time I visited. I returned a few years later because it's a gateway to a lot of great outdoorsy travel destinations. I did some research, gave it another chance, and was really impressed.

[PsyGuy]

@mp321

Its a myth that you can only find a low cost of living outside of the major cities. You have the option to spend more and live a more affluent lifestyle, but you can live very frugally in PEK/SHA/GZ on par with the rural prefecture cities.
There is a far greater degree of sophistication and metropolitan present in PEK/SHA/GZ then what you find in Kunming. Its very "provincial".
Again, Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou are not unfriendly.

[mp321]

I'm not saying you can ONLY find a low cost of living outside of the major cities, just that in general costs tend to be lower in a place like Kunming. Those who place high value on things like art galleries, live music, and top museums should probably choose a larger city. However, if you prefer a quieter, more active lifestyle, with plenty of area to stretch your legs and fresh air to breathe, a location like Kunming might be more up your alley.

[nikkor]

Kunming isn't really a city I would target. If you need to live in China for the work/money, it would be better to try to find the highest paying job possible in a place like Shanghai. If you want to go to Kunming for the lifestyle and cultural experiences, then you could do better in many other places just south of the boarder in Southeast Asia. Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Myanmar would all be more enjoyable places to live cheaply and travel from.
Yunnan can be a wonderful place to explore, but once you move to paradise, it can no longer be your paradise. Kunming will quickly feel like just another big Chinese city overrun by Han people.

[tangchao]

If you do go to Kunimng make sure you go to Moon Dog Bar. It is behind the museum. You'll have a blast.