I got my CELTA last year and am now working in SE Asia as an EFL teacher. I make around $1,400 per month with no other benefits.
My degree is in social sciences and I was looking at TeacherReady to move into international schools.
At first I saw teaching as a temporary gig but I enjoy it and want to pursue a career, where EFL is a dead end.
The easiest subject area certification I could get would be in social sciences. I am also interested in possibly testing into secondary English and ESOL. I agree with the advice I've read elsewhere that it makes sense to build off of my background rather than shoehorn into math or science.
I do not care where in the world I go for my first job. If I had to pick I'd go Africa, South America, or SE Asia.
So questions:
-General impressions? Am I as hopeless as I've read in some places here?
-Does "social sciences" mean "social sciences" or are schools flexible in subject areas? For example Florida offers a "humanities" subject certification, and "social studies," I think given my transcripts I'd be just as qualified for a humanities or political science or whatever subject area that overlaps with social sciences. Do they want your subject area to match exactly?
-Are English and ESOL stronger subject areas that I should focus on getting certified in over social sciences? Social sciences is my core and I figured English/ESOL are nice-to-haves. I think my ESOL resume would look ok with a CELTA and over a year of experience under my belt when I finish the TeacherReady program.
-Would I be looking at a pay raise at most tier 3 schools?
Thanks for your advice. I know these types of questions get posted a lot but believe me when I say the more the better for people searching in the future.
Subject areas for a newbie
Response
Yes youre as hopeless as your read throughout the forum. Thats just how it is, your what we call a noob, and your setting yourself up to go nowhere. Ill explain in a bit what the problem is going to be. "Social Science" in IE is basically Psychology and a few rare sociology vacancies (and by rare I mean a couple a year) Psychology gets a handful. In medium size schools psychology if its offered in DIP is shared between the counselor and teaching psychology. It is a very small niche market.
So getting to those main problems. First, it will be very hard to find a certification program in social science or psychology, they are out there but most states offer a composite general "social studies" certification and in Florida thats what Social Science means, in addition to psychology and sociology it includes economics, geography, government/civics and the big one history. If your going to be a social studies teacher and not be unemployed you need to be able to market yourself within history. Economics is usually paired with business studies. Schools expect you to be able to do it all, but they typically have a specialization (such as history) that they are looking for. You just have to look at your ability to do those other subjects, especially history, as thats going to be the core of your marketability, if you cant do history there are a lot of people who can, and history is the most popular and common social studies subject.
A humanities certification by itself is going to qualify you to maybe teach TOK if you can get IB experience in it, but humanities by itself is not marketable. Humanities is what they call social studies in the MYP.
English and social studies are low demand fields social studies are everywhere and most teachers have or are eligible for a social studies certification. English Lit isnt much better, lots of those people out there. The best option if thats the direction your going is to do get certificated in both, as they tend to be combination positions in small schools (much as science and math are). Your transcript and degree title doesnt have to match exactly, they will look at your course titles and transcripts and figure out pretty quickly what your background is in.
ESOL is more marketable in lower tier schools, but most upper tier schools have western student bodies that are fluent or proficient in English L1. Many schools arent opposed to hiring a local ESOL teacher on a per hour basis for their ESOL needs.
Second major problem, and this is the one thats going to be the biggest is you need as a rule 2 years of domestic or equivalent teaching experience to pass the bar as an "entry" IT, the demand for social studies teachers and English Lit teachers is very low you could find yourself waiting years and years before getting an offer to teach, and if you try to move into IT directly, your going to be at the bottom of a very large pile of resumes even at third tier ISs.
The most marketable option I see for you in SPED, its social science, and your ESOL experience will give you some familiarity working with special population students. Its also a bit of a cheat to getting into higher tier schools earlier since low tier ISs essentially dont offer SPED programs and services meaning the ones that do have more resources and a demand and will generally be better schools.
Yes you would look to make more money at even a tier 3 school, $2000USD is considered "the bottom" in Asia within third tier schools.
So getting to those main problems. First, it will be very hard to find a certification program in social science or psychology, they are out there but most states offer a composite general "social studies" certification and in Florida thats what Social Science means, in addition to psychology and sociology it includes economics, geography, government/civics and the big one history. If your going to be a social studies teacher and not be unemployed you need to be able to market yourself within history. Economics is usually paired with business studies. Schools expect you to be able to do it all, but they typically have a specialization (such as history) that they are looking for. You just have to look at your ability to do those other subjects, especially history, as thats going to be the core of your marketability, if you cant do history there are a lot of people who can, and history is the most popular and common social studies subject.
A humanities certification by itself is going to qualify you to maybe teach TOK if you can get IB experience in it, but humanities by itself is not marketable. Humanities is what they call social studies in the MYP.
English and social studies are low demand fields social studies are everywhere and most teachers have or are eligible for a social studies certification. English Lit isnt much better, lots of those people out there. The best option if thats the direction your going is to do get certificated in both, as they tend to be combination positions in small schools (much as science and math are). Your transcript and degree title doesnt have to match exactly, they will look at your course titles and transcripts and figure out pretty quickly what your background is in.
ESOL is more marketable in lower tier schools, but most upper tier schools have western student bodies that are fluent or proficient in English L1. Many schools arent opposed to hiring a local ESOL teacher on a per hour basis for their ESOL needs.
Second major problem, and this is the one thats going to be the biggest is you need as a rule 2 years of domestic or equivalent teaching experience to pass the bar as an "entry" IT, the demand for social studies teachers and English Lit teachers is very low you could find yourself waiting years and years before getting an offer to teach, and if you try to move into IT directly, your going to be at the bottom of a very large pile of resumes even at third tier ISs.
The most marketable option I see for you in SPED, its social science, and your ESOL experience will give you some familiarity working with special population students. Its also a bit of a cheat to getting into higher tier schools earlier since low tier ISs essentially dont offer SPED programs and services meaning the ones that do have more resources and a demand and will generally be better schools.
Yes you would look to make more money at even a tier 3 school, $2000USD is considered "the bottom" in Asia within third tier schools.
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
@PsyGuy thank you for the thorough reply, however I'm a little confused by some of what you said.
Social sciences is a broad field and is a lot more than psychology, as you noted. I'm confused as to why I'm suddenly branded a psychology teacher when I have not taken a single course in psychology in my life. Practically speaking I studied political science in college, almost minoring in English.
TeacherReady offers certification in Florida in social sciences.
Noted what you said about history. That's not my strongest area but I did take some upper level courses in college and could possibly go that route.
edit: oddly enough Florida doesn't have a history certification. I'm going to have to dig a little deeper on that, seems odd.
edit2: apparently to be a history teacher in Florida you would get the social science certification. So I could just apply for history jobs off the bat maybe?
If one doesn't have a social sciences degree, they require (to presumably teach):
(a) Six (6) semester hours in United States history,
(b) Courses in the areas specified below:
1. Western civilization or European history,
2. Asian, African, Latin American, or Middle Eastern history,
3. Economics,
4. United States federal government,
5. Geography, and
6. Sociology or psychology.
Social sciences is a broad field and is a lot more than psychology, as you noted. I'm confused as to why I'm suddenly branded a psychology teacher when I have not taken a single course in psychology in my life. Practically speaking I studied political science in college, almost minoring in English.
TeacherReady offers certification in Florida in social sciences.
Noted what you said about history. That's not my strongest area but I did take some upper level courses in college and could possibly go that route.
edit: oddly enough Florida doesn't have a history certification. I'm going to have to dig a little deeper on that, seems odd.
edit2: apparently to be a history teacher in Florida you would get the social science certification. So I could just apply for history jobs off the bat maybe?
If one doesn't have a social sciences degree, they require (to presumably teach):
(a) Six (6) semester hours in United States history,
(b) Courses in the areas specified below:
1. Western civilization or European history,
2. Asian, African, Latin American, or Middle Eastern history,
3. Economics,
4. United States federal government,
5. Geography, and
6. Sociology or psychology.
Reply
@cms989
My apologies for the branding, I assumed without a description that your social science background was in psychology/sociology, even so there is no demand for a dedicated poli sci teacher in IE. You would have to combine that with history and really to be marketable (and it would be a big market) but all the others as well. Teachers within their general field are expected to be able to do it all, even if what they end up scheduled for is more focused on one or two subjects.
You didnt have an intro to psyc course as part of your gen ed requirements? I suppose you had a selection of courses and poli sci or something else filled that. Many teachers who went through traditional training programs have 2 years of psyc (a year of intro and then 1-2 semesters of developmental psyc.) plus associated psyc related courses and topics within education.
Social Science = Social Studies, and its a composite broad certification. Many states dont have individual history, or economics etc.. teacher certifications within the domain of social studies, many states just aggregate them all together into one certification. Texas has a social studies and separate "history" certification, California does the same thing as Florida, Hawaii has an individual certification for each one.
Yes you could apply for history positions, but applying and getting hired are very different things, a couple history classes isnt going to get you an exit level course in any of those and to be a history/social studies teacher the expectation is that you can teach all grades/course in secondary and do so well, such that your students scores meet the schools performance expectations.
Im not trying to be all doom and gloom, your initial assessment was correct, its better to go with what you have then try to start over going back to Uni into a science/math route. The real problem is and there just isnt getting around it, is that there isnt a demand for dedicated Poli Sci teachers. Youve got a solid and notable piece of being a social studies teacher, but its only one piece, and its not a very big one. If you want to market yourself as a social studies teacher your going to need a lot more then a social science teaching cert and a couple of classes, and without those first couple of jobs your never going to get to the upper tiers with this route.
Since you dont have the Psych background to leverage into SPED, the ESOL route with the English Lit route is going to be stronger, you can then look at doing IB Language A/B with the goal of getting into a DIP program and moving into CAS and TOK. You long term goal is going to be making yourself into an IB specialist eventually becoming coordinator of one of the 3 secondary varieties.
You are probaly thinking "what?" but marketability for a Poli Sci teacher with little else doesnt sell.
My apologies for the branding, I assumed without a description that your social science background was in psychology/sociology, even so there is no demand for a dedicated poli sci teacher in IE. You would have to combine that with history and really to be marketable (and it would be a big market) but all the others as well. Teachers within their general field are expected to be able to do it all, even if what they end up scheduled for is more focused on one or two subjects.
You didnt have an intro to psyc course as part of your gen ed requirements? I suppose you had a selection of courses and poli sci or something else filled that. Many teachers who went through traditional training programs have 2 years of psyc (a year of intro and then 1-2 semesters of developmental psyc.) plus associated psyc related courses and topics within education.
Social Science = Social Studies, and its a composite broad certification. Many states dont have individual history, or economics etc.. teacher certifications within the domain of social studies, many states just aggregate them all together into one certification. Texas has a social studies and separate "history" certification, California does the same thing as Florida, Hawaii has an individual certification for each one.
Yes you could apply for history positions, but applying and getting hired are very different things, a couple history classes isnt going to get you an exit level course in any of those and to be a history/social studies teacher the expectation is that you can teach all grades/course in secondary and do so well, such that your students scores meet the schools performance expectations.
Im not trying to be all doom and gloom, your initial assessment was correct, its better to go with what you have then try to start over going back to Uni into a science/math route. The real problem is and there just isnt getting around it, is that there isnt a demand for dedicated Poli Sci teachers. Youve got a solid and notable piece of being a social studies teacher, but its only one piece, and its not a very big one. If you want to market yourself as a social studies teacher your going to need a lot more then a social science teaching cert and a couple of classes, and without those first couple of jobs your never going to get to the upper tiers with this route.
Since you dont have the Psych background to leverage into SPED, the ESOL route with the English Lit route is going to be stronger, you can then look at doing IB Language A/B with the goal of getting into a DIP program and moving into CAS and TOK. You long term goal is going to be making yourself into an IB specialist eventually becoming coordinator of one of the 3 secondary varieties.
You are probaly thinking "what?" but marketability for a Poli Sci teacher with little else doesnt sell.
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
@PsyGuy I think I see the market you're getting at. On TES I see a lot of these English+English Lit jobs and some English+Lit+Social Studies. I think I could end up being an ok candidate there, I could work on getting:
U.S. ESOL subject certification
U.S. English subject certification
U.S. Social Science certification
CELTA
B.A. in Social Sciences
1-2 years of experience in EFL
Further down the road (2-4 years) it wouldn't be a heavy lift for me to get a Master in Teaching. TeacherReady counts towards a third of Colorado State's program.
and fwiw I've been a professional writer for magazines and online news outlets. If I got into English I'd really like to do some composition teaching if I could.
U.S. ESOL subject certification
U.S. English subject certification
U.S. Social Science certification
CELTA
B.A. in Social Sciences
1-2 years of experience in EFL
Further down the road (2-4 years) it wouldn't be a heavy lift for me to get a Master in Teaching. TeacherReady counts towards a third of Colorado State's program.
and fwiw I've been a professional writer for magazines and online news outlets. If I got into English I'd really like to do some composition teaching if I could.
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
@PsyGuy - one more thing - how much better off would I be if I just taught in the U.S. for two years?
So those qualifications, 1 year of EFL (which I understand mostly counts for little), plus two years in the U.S. I'm not totally opposed to it (never lived in Florida before) but my long term career goals are in international schools.
So those qualifications, 1 year of EFL (which I understand mostly counts for little), plus two years in the U.S. I'm not totally opposed to it (never lived in Florida before) but my long term career goals are in international schools.
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
The teaching stateside and gaining that experience is something the schools want to see but is also usually a VISA requirement of 2-3 years teaching experience in the degree/credential/age level you have. Try and get experience teaching all levels. I went into the recruitment season having taught or trained all ages preschool through university level.
I have my Certs for preschool through 8th and I'm holding off on my English Lit secondary as I know the spots are harder to grab internationally. I took advantage if the shortage of ECE teachers and got a spot as a transitional K teacher. Quite a few school aged teaches apply for those spots to get "in" but lack the ECE training.
I'm not sure what type of teacher prep program you're looking at, but I have read and heard from recruiters they aren't a fan of online teacher prep programs. I've had friends do them for convenience and struggle in CA and TX to get jobs. The schools are not taking their Certs as seriously as brick and mortar programs. They're great teachers, just finding hesitant administrators. I know in CA you can also get certified in different levels of secondary Ed. For example I'm not a math wiz, but I could get certified in lower level math instruction (7-9th grade) which I'm just fine in and I like the middle school age anyway.
The suggestion to look at SPED I'd a good addition to have In general. You can get hired stateside faster and with higher pay.
Glad you've fallen in love with teaching! It is a great field if you can keep that love going!
I have my Certs for preschool through 8th and I'm holding off on my English Lit secondary as I know the spots are harder to grab internationally. I took advantage if the shortage of ECE teachers and got a spot as a transitional K teacher. Quite a few school aged teaches apply for those spots to get "in" but lack the ECE training.
I'm not sure what type of teacher prep program you're looking at, but I have read and heard from recruiters they aren't a fan of online teacher prep programs. I've had friends do them for convenience and struggle in CA and TX to get jobs. The schools are not taking their Certs as seriously as brick and mortar programs. They're great teachers, just finding hesitant administrators. I know in CA you can also get certified in different levels of secondary Ed. For example I'm not a math wiz, but I could get certified in lower level math instruction (7-9th grade) which I'm just fine in and I like the middle school age anyway.
The suggestion to look at SPED I'd a good addition to have In general. You can get hired stateside faster and with higher pay.
Glad you've fallen in love with teaching! It is a great field if you can keep that love going!
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
I just wanted to chime in on the Teacher Ready program. I just finished up the program and I am now certified in social science. The program is good and very flexible which I think is why it is so popular overseas. Many of those in my cohort were living overseas while they finished. I can't recommend it enough.
Good luck with whatever you decide. For me I am staying put in the US for a few years just to get experience before moving back overseas. I, like you, taught ESL before and came home just so I could get certified.
Good luck with whatever you decide. For me I am staying put in the US for a few years just to get experience before moving back overseas. I, like you, taught ESL before and came home just so I could get certified.
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
@Basmad where is this a visa requirement? "Usually" seems a bit far fetched given language teachers can generally get a visa with much fewer credentials.
@Munybse how did your job search go? Or how is it going? I wonder how easy I could get a job in the states after.
As for SPED suggestions, I really don't think I'd make a good SPED teacher. I'm just not well suited for it.
@Munybse how did your job search go? Or how is it going? I wonder how easy I could get a job in the states after.
As for SPED suggestions, I really don't think I'd make a good SPED teacher. I'm just not well suited for it.
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
I'm still in the process. It seems most jobs here in the states are posted a little after those overseas. I'm headed to a job fair in March that will hopefully lead to a job. It seems late March/early April are when the jobs start flooding in here in the states.
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
cms989 wrote:
> @Basmad where is this a visa requirement? "Usually" seems a bit
> far fetched given language teachers can generally get a visa with much
> fewer credentials.
>
> @Munybse how did your job search go? Or how is it going? I wonder how easy
> I could get a job in the states after.
>
> As for SPED suggestions, I really don't think I'd make a good SPED teacher.
> I'm just not well suited for it.
It's not far fetched or should I say LYING because "usually" that's what it means. The information has come from the mouths of the international schools for schools I have investigated beyond this site and recruiting sites and has been part of the visas I have obtained. It is a requirement for most schools to have 2-3 years in your area of teaching THAT is the advice I am emphasizing. Take it or leave it.
I can't answer why a language teacher can travel with no previous experience. as I'm not a language teacher. Maybe schools are desperate. Don't care really.
But hey thanks for calling me a far fetched advice giver. Consider my tips bunk and good luck with your search.
> @Basmad where is this a visa requirement? "Usually" seems a bit
> far fetched given language teachers can generally get a visa with much
> fewer credentials.
>
> @Munybse how did your job search go? Or how is it going? I wonder how easy
> I could get a job in the states after.
>
> As for SPED suggestions, I really don't think I'd make a good SPED teacher.
> I'm just not well suited for it.
It's not far fetched or should I say LYING because "usually" that's what it means. The information has come from the mouths of the international schools for schools I have investigated beyond this site and recruiting sites and has been part of the visas I have obtained. It is a requirement for most schools to have 2-3 years in your area of teaching THAT is the advice I am emphasizing. Take it or leave it.
I can't answer why a language teacher can travel with no previous experience. as I'm not a language teacher. Maybe schools are desperate. Don't care really.
But hey thanks for calling me a far fetched advice giver. Consider my tips bunk and good luck with your search.
-
wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
I can second some of the far fetched advice. 2 years experience is the bare minimum that the vast majority of decent to great int'l schools will require from a candidate. Does that mean they NEVER hire someone with less? No. But the circumstances would have to be extraordinary (e.g. close connection to someone at school, hard to fill position such as science or math combined with perfect timing of an unplanned opening, etc).
As for schools that would routinely hire teachers with less than 2 years experience, many will be a bit dodgy but some will just be in less desirable locations or offer packages below other schools in the same area. That doesn't mean that couldn't be fine places to start a career and spend a couple of years building your CV.
As for the visa requirements, I know that Japan and China require at least 2 years experience teaching in your field. I know there are more but won't try and name them without definite knowledge. China in particular encompasses a great number of potential employers that are off limits without the experience.
Why would int'l teachers need experience that ESL teachers don't? I can't say for certain but it may have to do with the nature of the schools. Int'l schools are generally treated very differently from other businesses in many countries for good and bad so it's not surprising that countries would have different requirements to grant visas to int'l school teachers.
As for schools that would routinely hire teachers with less than 2 years experience, many will be a bit dodgy but some will just be in less desirable locations or offer packages below other schools in the same area. That doesn't mean that couldn't be fine places to start a career and spend a couple of years building your CV.
As for the visa requirements, I know that Japan and China require at least 2 years experience teaching in your field. I know there are more but won't try and name them without definite knowledge. China in particular encompasses a great number of potential employers that are off limits without the experience.
Why would int'l teachers need experience that ESL teachers don't? I can't say for certain but it may have to do with the nature of the schools. Int'l schools are generally treated very differently from other businesses in many countries for good and bad so it's not surprising that countries would have different requirements to grant visas to int'l school teachers.
Reply
@cms989
Very poorly, a Lit or Social studies teacher has very little demand and coming from an ACP program with a background in only Poli Sci, and not coaching anything you could wait a decade to get a job if ever. If coming to the states is an option forget Florida and find a program in CA, HI, or NY a district there is going to find an ESOL teacher with a Chinese certification able to fill a very small niche in ESOL.
ACP programs like Teach Ready arent very popular domestically, and while your certificate will look like anyone elses, a recruiter and admin can tell very quickly based on your resume and transcripts how you got certified when they see no professional education coursework. If a university will accept Teach Ready and put the work as transfer or institutional credit on a transcript you could spin that as being a traditional certification program.
Teach ready is popular and works for so many IT candidates because of the flexibility of doing your field experience overseas. A few other programs offer the option as well, but Teach Readys is the most flexible. Another option would be a PGCEi as long as you dont plan on teaching in a UK regulated school, as its entirely online.
Two years experience isnt a visa requirement typically. Its a permit or licensing requirement. The legalities of immigration are two fold (possibly 3) the first is the visa which allows your to enter and reside in the country, and the work authorization or permit. Most countries have at least 2 type of permits one for professionals and skilled workers and one for unskilled workers. The requirement for a skilled worker or professional permit (of which teachers are) typically requires a number of years of experience in the field, usually 2 but can be more). ESOL teachers/instructors are typically brought in as unskilled workers so there is no experience requirement. ISs because of their organizational status typically need to hire professional teachers and to do so they need to meet the requirements for a skilled worker, which is in part why the barrier of 2 years experience exists.
ISs can get unskilled working permits and a higher a teacher that was as well, but there policies in such situations are really arbitrary, and a recruiter or admin may have discretion but the policies are approved by ownership, so an admins hands may be tied, or they may only be limited to skilled worker permits and so must meet the experience requirement. The third possibility is the requirement for a teaching license in that country, more common is you work in a municipal or regulated school.
If you less then two years experience and entering IT your considered an intern. Schools do hire with less but they are bottom tier schools, or its because a job is for a trailing spouse thats part of a package. In reality ISs like any private/independent school have a great deal of freedom on who they considered qualified.
Very poorly, a Lit or Social studies teacher has very little demand and coming from an ACP program with a background in only Poli Sci, and not coaching anything you could wait a decade to get a job if ever. If coming to the states is an option forget Florida and find a program in CA, HI, or NY a district there is going to find an ESOL teacher with a Chinese certification able to fill a very small niche in ESOL.
ACP programs like Teach Ready arent very popular domestically, and while your certificate will look like anyone elses, a recruiter and admin can tell very quickly based on your resume and transcripts how you got certified when they see no professional education coursework. If a university will accept Teach Ready and put the work as transfer or institutional credit on a transcript you could spin that as being a traditional certification program.
Teach ready is popular and works for so many IT candidates because of the flexibility of doing your field experience overseas. A few other programs offer the option as well, but Teach Readys is the most flexible. Another option would be a PGCEi as long as you dont plan on teaching in a UK regulated school, as its entirely online.
Two years experience isnt a visa requirement typically. Its a permit or licensing requirement. The legalities of immigration are two fold (possibly 3) the first is the visa which allows your to enter and reside in the country, and the work authorization or permit. Most countries have at least 2 type of permits one for professionals and skilled workers and one for unskilled workers. The requirement for a skilled worker or professional permit (of which teachers are) typically requires a number of years of experience in the field, usually 2 but can be more). ESOL teachers/instructors are typically brought in as unskilled workers so there is no experience requirement. ISs because of their organizational status typically need to hire professional teachers and to do so they need to meet the requirements for a skilled worker, which is in part why the barrier of 2 years experience exists.
ISs can get unskilled working permits and a higher a teacher that was as well, but there policies in such situations are really arbitrary, and a recruiter or admin may have discretion but the policies are approved by ownership, so an admins hands may be tied, or they may only be limited to skilled worker permits and so must meet the experience requirement. The third possibility is the requirement for a teaching license in that country, more common is you work in a municipal or regulated school.
If you less then two years experience and entering IT your considered an intern. Schools do hire with less but they are bottom tier schools, or its because a job is for a trailing spouse thats part of a package. In reality ISs like any private/independent school have a great deal of freedom on who they considered qualified.
Re: Subject areas for a newbie
My background is in social studies, my degree is social sciences. While I do appreciate your advice you keep pigeonholing me in things that aren't what I am so I'm unsure of what parts to take and what parts to leave. I don't have a Chinese certification, I have a Cambridge certification that is the industry standard for TESOL.
I also dispute what you're saying about work permits. I''ve worked in countries as a non-teacher and as an EFL teacher and the visa requirements typically don't differ a lot. You need company sponsorship and may need to apply within a category that fits your industry. In China for example there is a two-year requirement for a Foreign Expert Certificate but it is routinely not enforced for work experience within the field. In Vietnam I have the same visa as people working at Saigon South.
Second, the idea that EFL teachers are 'unskilled workers' is wrong. Every country I know of requires a bachelor's degree, and many including Vietnam require a 120-hour course with 6 hours observed teaching for the visa.
Further, trying to apply a general rule to work permits around the world is just silly. Every country is different.
I only say this because I feel like people are going to read what you're saying at take it as truth. It isn't. I also realize how annoying it is for someone to ask for advice and then argue about the advice they're given, so with that I won't ask for anymore and thank you again for what you've said regarding teaching subjects and marketability.
I also dispute what you're saying about work permits. I''ve worked in countries as a non-teacher and as an EFL teacher and the visa requirements typically don't differ a lot. You need company sponsorship and may need to apply within a category that fits your industry. In China for example there is a two-year requirement for a Foreign Expert Certificate but it is routinely not enforced for work experience within the field. In Vietnam I have the same visa as people working at Saigon South.
Second, the idea that EFL teachers are 'unskilled workers' is wrong. Every country I know of requires a bachelor's degree, and many including Vietnam require a 120-hour course with 6 hours observed teaching for the visa.
Further, trying to apply a general rule to work permits around the world is just silly. Every country is different.
I only say this because I feel like people are going to read what you're saying at take it as truth. It isn't. I also realize how annoying it is for someone to ask for advice and then argue about the advice they're given, so with that I won't ask for anymore and thank you again for what you've said regarding teaching subjects and marketability.
Reply
@cms989
It is true, you just disagree with it.
You wrote that you were working in SE Asia, so your TESOL experience in dealing with Asian L1 learners, as opposed to the far, far more common scenario of teaching Spanish speakers? Finding a school district with a significant Asian population such as Chinese which is more common in Areas such as NYC, CA, Hawaii, increases your marketability as youd have applicable experience working with that population.
Its not wrong, while I use those terms skilled, unskilled and professional they are categories of work authorization, and while some regions such has JP have many more the distinction exists and is very real.
Whether your an unskilled or skilled worker you still require sponsorship, again you are confusing and aggregating a visa with a permit. A foreign expert certificate is not a Vietnam visa.
The ministry of labor and immigration has no legal requirement mandating a 120 hour course to teach English there are a number with no such credentials whose sole qualification is being native speakers. A bachelors degree need not be an exact requirement to qualify for a work permit as a skilled worker, it is typically one such criteria that will meet the requirement, but different fields have different requirements, a bachelors degree will not permit a westerner to practice medicine as a physician in Vietnam, yet it is still a skilled profession.
Yes, every country is different but the generalization of having tiered categories of work authorization is not "silly" as its accurate, though generalized.
There is nothing annoying about your inquiry or comments, this is a conversation, and the discussion has value for the forums readership, we need more contributions not fewer.
It is true, you just disagree with it.
You wrote that you were working in SE Asia, so your TESOL experience in dealing with Asian L1 learners, as opposed to the far, far more common scenario of teaching Spanish speakers? Finding a school district with a significant Asian population such as Chinese which is more common in Areas such as NYC, CA, Hawaii, increases your marketability as youd have applicable experience working with that population.
Its not wrong, while I use those terms skilled, unskilled and professional they are categories of work authorization, and while some regions such has JP have many more the distinction exists and is very real.
Whether your an unskilled or skilled worker you still require sponsorship, again you are confusing and aggregating a visa with a permit. A foreign expert certificate is not a Vietnam visa.
The ministry of labor and immigration has no legal requirement mandating a 120 hour course to teach English there are a number with no such credentials whose sole qualification is being native speakers. A bachelors degree need not be an exact requirement to qualify for a work permit as a skilled worker, it is typically one such criteria that will meet the requirement, but different fields have different requirements, a bachelors degree will not permit a westerner to practice medicine as a physician in Vietnam, yet it is still a skilled profession.
Yes, every country is different but the generalization of having tiered categories of work authorization is not "silly" as its accurate, though generalized.
There is nothing annoying about your inquiry or comments, this is a conversation, and the discussion has value for the forums readership, we need more contributions not fewer.