ISIS in Jeddah
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Chargerfan
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ISIS in Jeddah
I heard through a friend that there is mounting pressure about ISIS threats, specifically at AISJ. Is this craziness or legit? Anyone know anyone teaching there or in Jeddah and feel this sort of new pressure in recent weeks/months? One claim was that ISIS supporters or the like (anti-west, anti-American) were throwing rocks at parents as they picked up their children from school. I want to call BS on it because I would have heard something in here right?
Response
I dont know the situation, I couldnt find any news about it, but this isnt the BBC or CNN. Were not a news outlet and we wouldnt know unless someone posted, and the vast majority of our posts are inquiries, not informative or FYI updates. Fair diaries are the closest we get to unsolicited informative posts.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
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Re: ISIS in Jeddah
I have heard nothing about this from any of my friends spread across KSA - usually there would be something posted on groups I belong to if this were the case.
That said, a friend of mine was trying to flag a taxi when a group of lads pulled up and started getting rude with the western lady. She put them in their place quickly and off they scurried.
That's the extent of it that I've heard.
Hope this helps,
shad
That said, a friend of mine was trying to flag a taxi when a group of lads pulled up and started getting rude with the western lady. She put them in their place quickly and off they scurried.
That's the extent of it that I've heard.
Hope this helps,
shad
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giraffe0345
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:13 am
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
There have been threats to expat teachers and from what I remember IS did name schools to target but they weren't named in media reports
A quick Google brought up this
http://www.moneyinternational.com/news/ ... s-threats/
I'm not in or never have been in Saudi though so don't know what is actually happening.
A quick Google brought up this
http://www.moneyinternational.com/news/ ... s-threats/
I'm not in or never have been in Saudi though so don't know what is actually happening.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
The big joke we had in Saudi was it was when the embassies were not sending out warnings that you REALLY had to worry. That's when the stuff really hits the fan. So embassy warnings? No big deal - we used to have them every week.
Some expats shot at? Google all the kids being killed in the US, and all the adults too. Do you worry about working in the US? Saudi is much safer than that. In fact, I always told my friends that if I died in Saudi it would be in a car accident. That still holds true for my friends who are there!
Some expats shot at? Google all the kids being killed in the US, and all the adults too. Do you worry about working in the US? Saudi is much safer than that. In fact, I always told my friends that if I died in Saudi it would be in a car accident. That still holds true for my friends who are there!
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
Hey, shadowjack, are you American? If not, keep your criticism of the U.S. to yourself.
If you're a Brit, remember that your crime rate is as bad as America's.
And by the way, there is a big difference between getting shot and being beheaded after weeks and months of beatings and mock executions. And now, after IS has burned a man alive in a cage, beheading might be something a person would beg for if they end up being captured IN SAUDIA ARABIA.
All teachers: BE SMART. Sure, odds are that you'll be ok, but the consequences for not beating the odds, of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, are just too horrible to risk. And remember you are putting your families at risk also. Can you live with that if the unthinkable happens? I'm sure that most of the people who ended up dying in an IS video thought the same as shadowjack: I'll be ok.
Work someplace else and don't listen to the professional international education apologists, like shadowjack, who always tell you that all is well in the wonderful world of the IT.
If you're a Brit, remember that your crime rate is as bad as America's.
And by the way, there is a big difference between getting shot and being beheaded after weeks and months of beatings and mock executions. And now, after IS has burned a man alive in a cage, beheading might be something a person would beg for if they end up being captured IN SAUDIA ARABIA.
All teachers: BE SMART. Sure, odds are that you'll be ok, but the consequences for not beating the odds, of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, are just too horrible to risk. And remember you are putting your families at risk also. Can you live with that if the unthinkable happens? I'm sure that most of the people who ended up dying in an IS video thought the same as shadowjack: I'll be ok.
Work someplace else and don't listen to the professional international education apologists, like shadowjack, who always tell you that all is well in the wonderful world of the IT.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
Senator,
how is it criticism to point out the truth? Sorry if you took it as a criticism. All I said was, "Some expats shot at? Google all the kids being killed in the US, and all the adults too. Do you worry about working in the US?"
As to your shoutout to all teachers to be smart, the same applies in the US, too.
The truth is that roughly every two years more Americans are killed by handguns than were killed in Vietnam. Yet people feel very safe in the USA and nobody questions their safety unless they live in a bad bad neighborhood.
Nowhere do I say that you WON'T get shot at in Saudi - but I have a lot of friends, many of them with children, living and teaching in Saudi. If it were as bad as it is made out to be, they have the qualifications and experience to easily find work elsewhere. The fact they are still there and the conversations I have with them tell me the perception and the reality are far apart. And no, Senator, my friends are not admin! :-)
Just giving my two cents and exercising my First Amendment rights.
shad
how is it criticism to point out the truth? Sorry if you took it as a criticism. All I said was, "Some expats shot at? Google all the kids being killed in the US, and all the adults too. Do you worry about working in the US?"
As to your shoutout to all teachers to be smart, the same applies in the US, too.
The truth is that roughly every two years more Americans are killed by handguns than were killed in Vietnam. Yet people feel very safe in the USA and nobody questions their safety unless they live in a bad bad neighborhood.
Nowhere do I say that you WON'T get shot at in Saudi - but I have a lot of friends, many of them with children, living and teaching in Saudi. If it were as bad as it is made out to be, they have the qualifications and experience to easily find work elsewhere. The fact they are still there and the conversations I have with them tell me the perception and the reality are far apart. And no, Senator, my friends are not admin! :-)
Just giving my two cents and exercising my First Amendment rights.
shad
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
@shadowjack
I just won bet number 2! Thanks, pal.
Did you even read what I wrote? Are you unable to understand the meaning?
Are you one of those people who don't listen, but wait to talk?
Just read the post again without trying to spin it into something that supports your biased beliefs.
And you never said what nationality you are? That piece of information would be helpful since you are trying to portray yourself as some kind of pseudo expert on American crime. And you are using the statistics on shootings in the U.S. in a very elementary and superficial manner. I hope you present stats less disingenuously and more thoroughly to your lucky students.
I just won bet number 2! Thanks, pal.
Did you even read what I wrote? Are you unable to understand the meaning?
Are you one of those people who don't listen, but wait to talk?
Just read the post again without trying to spin it into something that supports your biased beliefs.
And you never said what nationality you are? That piece of information would be helpful since you are trying to portray yourself as some kind of pseudo expert on American crime. And you are using the statistics on shootings in the U.S. in a very elementary and superficial manner. I hope you present stats less disingenuously and more thoroughly to your lucky students.
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
Well, to be put it bluntly senator, I am an American. In my 5 years teaching stateside, I did have a loaded weapon pointed at me and was told "I'm gonna kill you mofo." That occurred at a school. Outside of school, I've had other not so pleasant interactions. Overseas, for a dozen years now, have never, ever had my safety put in question. And that includes walking through an anti-American march I accidentally stumbled upon, was recognized as an American, and politely help - and I literally mean helped, not threatened or escorted in any way - to get off the path of the march. I feel much safer overseas than I do in the US, and the statistics support that view.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
Well, Senator, keep on keeping on. I think our posts speak for themselves and I'm a little too old for flame wars on ISR forums.
shad
shad
Reply
@senator
Your not spinning? How many foreigners have been beheaded, compared to how many kids were shot alone at Sandy Hook. The US has more guns then ANYWHERE else in the world in the hands of those other than LE and MIL. Yes, those guys with the machete have AKs, but the sensationalism of the media is more hype than reality.
Ive been in some bad spots in the world, but aside from stupid Americans (who go to NK rip up the passport and visa and request asylum, because they want to write about inhumane treatment in NK jails), I dont want those people back and personally Id rather not have to send a diplomat or politician with a briefcase full of money or food aid, to get those people back. Same goes for the people who dont exercise a decent and by decent I mean NON BRAIN DEAD amount of situational awareness. If you go to the ME, be on your best Sunday church/mass/prayer/Easter/grandmas dinner behavior, fly under the radar. Dont go sticking a video camera in everyones face expecting them to respect your right to free speech and a free press, you left the constitution at the US border. Treat host nationals as you would your spouses mother. You dont have to like them or respect them in your heart, but you do have to SHOW respect for them, because assholery is inversely correlated to safety. and security. If your own life isnt sacred or valuable to you, run a bath and play with the toaster plugged in at the same time, dont make your loved ones sort through your remains at the airport and make the decision of having a "closed casket".
Your not spinning? How many foreigners have been beheaded, compared to how many kids were shot alone at Sandy Hook. The US has more guns then ANYWHERE else in the world in the hands of those other than LE and MIL. Yes, those guys with the machete have AKs, but the sensationalism of the media is more hype than reality.
Ive been in some bad spots in the world, but aside from stupid Americans (who go to NK rip up the passport and visa and request asylum, because they want to write about inhumane treatment in NK jails), I dont want those people back and personally Id rather not have to send a diplomat or politician with a briefcase full of money or food aid, to get those people back. Same goes for the people who dont exercise a decent and by decent I mean NON BRAIN DEAD amount of situational awareness. If you go to the ME, be on your best Sunday church/mass/prayer/Easter/grandmas dinner behavior, fly under the radar. Dont go sticking a video camera in everyones face expecting them to respect your right to free speech and a free press, you left the constitution at the US border. Treat host nationals as you would your spouses mother. You dont have to like them or respect them in your heart, but you do have to SHOW respect for them, because assholery is inversely correlated to safety. and security. If your own life isnt sacred or valuable to you, run a bath and play with the toaster plugged in at the same time, dont make your loved ones sort through your remains at the airport and make the decision of having a "closed casket".
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Chargerfan
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:26 pm
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
Thanks for the replies.It kinda got off topic a bit. I was hoping someone who knows someone at AISJ or another school in Jeddah would be able to respond. I have actually heard its pretty crazy out there in Jeddah. MERS, crazy mold in the housing, people getting sick from it, expats getting shot outside of the compound from ISIS supporters. The state department contacting all the staff at the school saying they are targets. Teachers afraid to use the bus because its a target and people are scared of blowing up in it. etc. etc.
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
Chargerfan:
Psyguy and Shadowjack are famous on this site for defending the international education system at all costs. They might say I am famous for knocking down international education. I just feel the need to let teachers know that international teaching is not the treasure it used to be even 10 years ago.
I also was never had any trouble overseas - and that includes motorcycle trips through a few civil wars - and not a lot of trouble here in the U.S. because this is my territory and I CAN READ THE SUBTLE SIGNS and hopefully avoid trouble long before it happens due to being aware and in tune.
Unfortunately, you will probably never spend enough time living in any foreign country to develop that kind of awareness and, because of this, you are to a large degree dependent on the kindness and goodwill of the natives. This is fine when the natives are kind and full of goodwill, but if they aren't - even just 1 of them - you might be a target waiting to get kidnapped, or worse, your wife or teenage son may find themselves in a position from which there is no escape.
Before you make a decision or listen to me or Psyguy or Sjack, take the time to read some of the accounts which describe how Westerners were taken by IS and other groups. They never really had a chance. Read that again: THEY NEVER REALLY HAD A CHANCE. They were not trained, were playing on somebody else's court against an adversary that had all the time in the world, and probably thought that nothing would happen to them as long as they were respectful and courteous.
Remember the reason we all went overseas, yes, to teach, but also to experience different cultures. Can you really do that to the max when you are always cautious: Is that man talking to me just trying to be friendly or is he trying to lure me to someplace that is not safe?
YES, in terms of pure probability, you will not end up kneeling in the sand waiting to be beheaded, but since there are SO MANY other countries to teach in where you can just maintain the usual amount of caution and common sense and REALLY experience all that these cultures have to offer: Why bother with Saudi?
Psyguy and Shadowjack are famous on this site for defending the international education system at all costs. They might say I am famous for knocking down international education. I just feel the need to let teachers know that international teaching is not the treasure it used to be even 10 years ago.
I also was never had any trouble overseas - and that includes motorcycle trips through a few civil wars - and not a lot of trouble here in the U.S. because this is my territory and I CAN READ THE SUBTLE SIGNS and hopefully avoid trouble long before it happens due to being aware and in tune.
Unfortunately, you will probably never spend enough time living in any foreign country to develop that kind of awareness and, because of this, you are to a large degree dependent on the kindness and goodwill of the natives. This is fine when the natives are kind and full of goodwill, but if they aren't - even just 1 of them - you might be a target waiting to get kidnapped, or worse, your wife or teenage son may find themselves in a position from which there is no escape.
Before you make a decision or listen to me or Psyguy or Sjack, take the time to read some of the accounts which describe how Westerners were taken by IS and other groups. They never really had a chance. Read that again: THEY NEVER REALLY HAD A CHANCE. They were not trained, were playing on somebody else's court against an adversary that had all the time in the world, and probably thought that nothing would happen to them as long as they were respectful and courteous.
Remember the reason we all went overseas, yes, to teach, but also to experience different cultures. Can you really do that to the max when you are always cautious: Is that man talking to me just trying to be friendly or is he trying to lure me to someplace that is not safe?
YES, in terms of pure probability, you will not end up kneeling in the sand waiting to be beheaded, but since there are SO MANY other countries to teach in where you can just maintain the usual amount of caution and common sense and REALLY experience all that these cultures have to offer: Why bother with Saudi?
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
Chargerfan,
To get back on topic.
The living conditions I can't speak about, because my friends have left Jeddah. Those at Conti loved their housing which was on a small compound adjacent to the school. Those at AISJ were housed at Saudia City, an old large compound that was formerly run/owned by Saudia Air, when they had expats galore working for them. There it is hit or miss. You can get a decent place, or you can get a place that has been closed up for eight years and hasn't been cleaned to your standards upon move in.
As listed before, in Jeddah Conti would be my first choice school, and AISJ second choice, Jeddah Prep I wouldn't teach at. I would not teach at any other school in Jeddah, but would go to KAUST, which is north of Jeddah and where I do have friends still teaching.
As someone who has lived in Saudi, if the right position came up, Mrs. Shadowjack and I would go back no worries.
Hope this helps,
shad
To get back on topic.
The living conditions I can't speak about, because my friends have left Jeddah. Those at Conti loved their housing which was on a small compound adjacent to the school. Those at AISJ were housed at Saudia City, an old large compound that was formerly run/owned by Saudia Air, when they had expats galore working for them. There it is hit or miss. You can get a decent place, or you can get a place that has been closed up for eight years and hasn't been cleaned to your standards upon move in.
As listed before, in Jeddah Conti would be my first choice school, and AISJ second choice, Jeddah Prep I wouldn't teach at. I would not teach at any other school in Jeddah, but would go to KAUST, which is north of Jeddah and where I do have friends still teaching.
As someone who has lived in Saudi, if the right position came up, Mrs. Shadowjack and I would go back no worries.
Hope this helps,
shad
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Chargerfan
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:26 pm
Re: ISIS in Jeddah
Thanks Shadow,
I have also lived in the Middle East and am not worried about the general encounters of local people or life in there. These were specific and very recent incidents that have caused some real alarm. Attacks on the school bus going to school (rocks), being sited in ISIS posts as targets, being warned directly by the US embassy and them coming to the school apparently, serious mold problems from the recent flooding at Saudia City compound, etc. I was just hoping someone could confirm or disconfirm these claims. Or at least speak to them. Does anyone currently living in Jeddah or teach at one of the schools in Jeddah feel this way or have heard anything like this? Or are these claims erroneous? The school is specifically cited in this ISIS article. I have also heard that the ISIS affiliate who originally posted on the ISIS cite was a former teacher? These could be just wild claims, but it could make sense.
http://www.vocativ.com/world/isis-2/ame ... -say-isis/
I have also lived in the Middle East and am not worried about the general encounters of local people or life in there. These were specific and very recent incidents that have caused some real alarm. Attacks on the school bus going to school (rocks), being sited in ISIS posts as targets, being warned directly by the US embassy and them coming to the school apparently, serious mold problems from the recent flooding at Saudia City compound, etc. I was just hoping someone could confirm or disconfirm these claims. Or at least speak to them. Does anyone currently living in Jeddah or teach at one of the schools in Jeddah feel this way or have heard anything like this? Or are these claims erroneous? The school is specifically cited in this ISIS article. I have also heard that the ISIS affiliate who originally posted on the ISIS cite was a former teacher? These could be just wild claims, but it could make sense.
http://www.vocativ.com/world/isis-2/ame ... -say-isis/