Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

shadowjack
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

Post by shadowjack »

Klooste,

if your school is having 25% turnover a year, it is either a school where if you stay you are going to get some good opportunities for responsibility positions, or where you will stagnate. That's basically a whole staff turnover every 4 years, which is not good for any institution.

just my 2 cents,

shad
bbgun25
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:03 am

Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

Post by bbgun25 »

I currently am at an American/International school in Kuwait (the highest rated one for sake of remaining somewhat anonymous) and there is a HIGH rate of turnover this year. People say that it is due to a number of factors:

No incentive to stay- There is no raise after an initial contract is completed. There is no bonus or pay bump if you stay for a longer period.

Dwindling or a Lack of Resources- Resources are going away. What was once here 5 years ago, are being slowly scaled back to save money.

Hiring- The school tends to hire new teachers right out of university and then send them on their way after a couple of years instead of investing in solid teachers and giving them incentives to stay.

For Profit- The school is for profit, which no one can deny will factor into all decisions that must be made.

Overall, the school is steadily going downhill fast. The administration in all schools have changed so much in the past several years that there is a concern on guidance and leadership. The school does not invest back into their teachers or infrastructure so it is slowly crumbling from beneath them. Since teachers do not feel appreciated, they are leaving.....and this year, they are leaving in hordes.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Disucssion

Post by PsyGuy »

25% turn over is bad, elite schools can go a whole year without recruiting anyone, and when they do they have a handful of positions. The only schools and admins arguing the normalcy of 25% turnover being acceptable are the one who have such high turnover. As a WE school if they would be deeply concerned over losing a quarter of their staff each year.

The entire ME is a revolving door, where the mercenary teacher thrives because they stay for the money.
ozcanuck
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

Post by ozcanuck »

I'm not one to apologise or rationalise high teacher turnover rate. There may well be many reasons, but the fact that t/o is there has to have some impact on the culture of the school and on its community. There is no reason to avoid the higher t/o schools but you do need to go in with an open mind and no serious expectations of excellence. You may well get a pleasant surprise. You'd also do well to realise that high turnover does not necessarily mean that you have lots of opportunities; the t/o may well be because of the lack of career opportunities that exist. Cronyism, credentialism and appearanceism in leadership roles is very real and often results in competent and capable teachers burning out having to carry the can for poor decisions made by their supervisors.
Q8Sobieski
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Location: Mumbai, India

Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

Post by Q8Sobieski »

Yes, 25% is high. My school has had trouble too. I am just about to finish my first and last two year contract. Of the batch of new employees that arrived with me in 2013, nearly 50% of them broke contract and left after the end of the first year. A further 25% did not renew for a third year. It's a shame. I actually like the school I work at but the location is miserable and the non-teaching spouse hates it. But the school also doesn't care. They are in the process of replacing expat teachers with less-expensive local hires. They are just going to keep a few white people around for photo-ops and the brochures.
whoamI?
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:02 am

Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

Post by whoamI? »

My school is about 25% too. Though admin says its normal. I don't believe them! ha
derPhysik
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Location: connecticut

Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

Post by derPhysik »

How about this ? 25%+ is worrying from a teacher's/staff perspective, but I don't think it bothers owner's/admin much. So, does it matter? I've seen them fill positions with warm bodies at the last minute without batting an eye. Also, you never really know why people are leaving. Even if they tell you. Stability is turning into my number one factor in job choice. I will earn less, to simply know who I will be working with next year, and who will be making the decisions. Top schools do it, but most of us don't work there.
Right now, interviewing with a school that looks a little small/in transition, but shows promise of being stable and run by rational people. (I've been rejected by all the top schools that are already there) My questions during interviews are all about stability, now. One on my script is, "What are you doing to retain staff on a yearly basis? If you like my work, at the end of this contract, what can I expect?" Some are flustered and b.s. me, some have planned and reasonable responses.
shadowjack
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am

Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

Post by shadowjack »

At the good schools 25% turnover would be ringing alarm bells among parents and admin (many of these would not be private). It is worrying to me as a teacher because chances are I will have to make up more deficiencies in learning than at a school with a lower annual turnover.

I really like your questions regarding what it looks like for you at the end of a 2 year stint. Certainly gives you some room for evaluation.

shad

ps Good luck with your search!
sid
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Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

Post by sid »

derPhysik wrote:
> I've seen them fill positions with warm bodies at the last minute without batting an eye.

Kind of have to, don't they?
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Comment

Post by PsyGuy »

Yes they have too, the problem is they dont care about retaining quality teachers or value quality professionals.
sid
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:44 am

Re: Does your school have high turnover? Why or why not?

Post by sid »

What, all of them?
Whether you do or not (I do, and so does my school), if the end of the road comes and you need a teacher immediately, then you need a teacher immediately. Sometimes you can do some creative magic and share the load among existing teachers, creating at least some ill will but at least putting known quantities in front of students, but often that just won't work, or won't work for long.
Say what you like about admin types, but one of the job requirements is that sometimes they are called upon to make decisive decisions, call the hard call, do the difficult thing. Having to put a subpar teacher in at the last inning is hardly my idea of fun, and I'll work my butt off to find the best teacher I can, but at the end of the day, there needs to be someone in the classroom. Doesn't mean I like it, or that I don't care, or whatever else it might appear from the outside.
PsyGuy
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Location: Northern Europe

Discussion

Post by PsyGuy »

@sid

Why would you have to make a last minute hiring and put a sub par teacher in a classroom if you were planed and organized? Why cant you keep and incentives people to remain on staff? If you were an upper tier school there would be a plenty of people available and still looking for a position in August that while not your first choice are completely qualified and experienced.
Making the hard decisions of a "leader" means building an organization and school were people want to stay, and having procedures to always provide qualified staff. Its "managers" who brag about the hard decisions created by their lack of foresight, organization and preparation.

It is not the emergency/crises staffing scenario that is being referred to here. It is the schools that never really cared who the hired as far as quality in the first place. The schools that dont care if you stay or leave, because they just need/want any westerner with a pulse.
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