Being a total noob who has made a zillion missteps already, I'm going to go out on a shaky limb once again. I'm getting the impression that this is kind of a dark place and I'm getting myself into a world of bitter nastiness teaching abroad. I love teaching and I currently work in a (US) school that's full of happy teachers. I've known a few misanthrope Debbie Downer teachers in my career, but they are the vast minority-- literally just one or two per school.
What confuses me is that I'm having to sell myself to schools that are seemingly full of drunken complainers, some with atrocious grammar. How did THEY get in?
Can any of you tell me about the good stuff? Or am I just in the wrong place?
Please share your positive experiences
Response
First, this forum (and the paid side) is a dumping ground for frustration. There are LOTS of sites and outlets to get IS sunshine and rainbows, but this is one of the few only sites where you get the doom and gloom.
Second, 95% of being an IT, and IE in positive stuff. If your realistic about who you are and have realistic expectations (its a small for profit school in a meh place, and your fine with that and will be fine with that) being an IT is a positive experience. Its the 5% that is the problem and by 5% I dont mean someone else I mean when the 5% dark foot of gloom and doom steps on you, and it will what happens, and how you respond to it. Some people (myself included) have skins of Teflon and just move on, always another day, change is inevitable, if your a bee most times you get the nectar, sometimes you hit the windshield. Shake yourself off, go back to the hive, rejoice in the new day.
The issue is how bad that 5% is, there have been teachers who went to jail for nothing more than offending a student. The most influential factor is that you work in a regulated (public) school you have a lot of protections and regulation. ISs are essentially private/independent schools. They can do what they want with relative impunity to a foreigner. You have no protections, you cant disagree with an admin and depend on your union or contract law to protect you. Contracts are for the benefit of the schools not you. You also are very unlikely to be in a location where you can just jump to another school. If your in a major city or a country with a lot of demand you can sometimes find something, but usually running afoul of an admin means going home, and usually broke. You dont have access to resources and you dont speak the language, your major resource to that point has been your school and coworkers.
What happened to them? Three things: 1) Ego, 2) Tradition, 3) Environment.
EGO:
When your an admin in a regulated (public) school your a cog, your an officer but your not the general. Your a lieutenant passing instructions down the chain, while serving as a buffer or firewall to those above you. You run things but its always within the strict rigid framework of policy, rules and regulations.
In a IS which is private school principals and HOSs who were before low level officers now find themselves in the position of generals, with almost limitless authority and power. Its the difference between being a manager and being a C level executive. Many of them just extrapolate their manager paradigm to being an executive, it doesnt look hard, but leading is not the same or even close to managing. They start to see their actions right or wrong, success and failures as learning experiences, they shed the reality and frame them within academic context. Then the excuses and rationals set in, the "it was the best choice out of all bad choices". It was the most efficient action, a good solution today is better than a great solution tomorrow, there are acceptable losses and casualties. This eventually (and quickly) leads to developing a very big ego and superiority context, since ownership rarely if ever exercises supervisory control/discretion over a HOS. Most ownership have no experience in professional education. They are often affluent business people, or they are often prominent local members or parents.
TRADITION:
Modeling is one of the primary ways we learn. We see others doing something and we believe thats how its supposed to be done. When a profession as a whole endorses a behavior either informally or formally then that becomes a standard. If you go against that standard its perceived as being weak, inexperienced, or not authoritative. You likely dont want to stay where you are forever, and admins have term set contracts as well, they want to get the next job, and that means impressing another schools ownership with the same if not better conduct and behavior as they had before. Going in with radical or rogue ideas and practices just looks threatening. Schools want someone thats going to keep the world spinning as they know it. There is not a lot of innovation in administration. Keep the parents happy, raise/keep enrollment up, minimize costs, improve scores. Thats really about it.
ENVIRONMENT:
Despite the authority and power a HOS has it isnt their school, they report to ownership (either a board, another organization, or an owner). You dont stay head or an admin long defying ownership. The school is basically what ownership imagines it to be and your really just ownerships representative handling the day to day management and tasks. Ownership has the long term strategic mission/goals/vision. Your job is to keep everything running smoothly.
Think of an IS as a delivery truck. The admin is the mechanic and manager, ownership owns the truck and the business, ITs are the drivers, customers the parents and the packages the students. The admins (mechanic/manager) job is to keep the vehicle running optimally, smoothly, efficiently, and as such they have a lot of say over what parts get used, the fuel, how long the truck runs, even who drives the truck. The mechanic though has to work with what ownership gives them. They an ask for high mileage parts but if ownership gives them inferior tools and parts there is only so much they can do. If ownership gives them cheap pads they have to do brake jobs more often, and they have to do them faster, meaning not as well, because ownership wants the truck working at maximum capacity. The same is true with admins, money is the biggest factor, ownership always wants you to do more with less, and if less gets the job done, thats whats going to happen.
A lot of bottom tier school out there have toxic ownership, its just numbers there are a lot more bottom tier schools than there are top tier schools and no upper tier IS is going to appoint a novice IS admin, so they get their experience and make their bones in the sewers and gutters of ISs. The good ones rise above it clean themselves off and move up and on, those are the rare ones. The bad ones (of which the majority are) just keep moving around the system from low tier school to low tier school.
Second, 95% of being an IT, and IE in positive stuff. If your realistic about who you are and have realistic expectations (its a small for profit school in a meh place, and your fine with that and will be fine with that) being an IT is a positive experience. Its the 5% that is the problem and by 5% I dont mean someone else I mean when the 5% dark foot of gloom and doom steps on you, and it will what happens, and how you respond to it. Some people (myself included) have skins of Teflon and just move on, always another day, change is inevitable, if your a bee most times you get the nectar, sometimes you hit the windshield. Shake yourself off, go back to the hive, rejoice in the new day.
The issue is how bad that 5% is, there have been teachers who went to jail for nothing more than offending a student. The most influential factor is that you work in a regulated (public) school you have a lot of protections and regulation. ISs are essentially private/independent schools. They can do what they want with relative impunity to a foreigner. You have no protections, you cant disagree with an admin and depend on your union or contract law to protect you. Contracts are for the benefit of the schools not you. You also are very unlikely to be in a location where you can just jump to another school. If your in a major city or a country with a lot of demand you can sometimes find something, but usually running afoul of an admin means going home, and usually broke. You dont have access to resources and you dont speak the language, your major resource to that point has been your school and coworkers.
What happened to them? Three things: 1) Ego, 2) Tradition, 3) Environment.
EGO:
When your an admin in a regulated (public) school your a cog, your an officer but your not the general. Your a lieutenant passing instructions down the chain, while serving as a buffer or firewall to those above you. You run things but its always within the strict rigid framework of policy, rules and regulations.
In a IS which is private school principals and HOSs who were before low level officers now find themselves in the position of generals, with almost limitless authority and power. Its the difference between being a manager and being a C level executive. Many of them just extrapolate their manager paradigm to being an executive, it doesnt look hard, but leading is not the same or even close to managing. They start to see their actions right or wrong, success and failures as learning experiences, they shed the reality and frame them within academic context. Then the excuses and rationals set in, the "it was the best choice out of all bad choices". It was the most efficient action, a good solution today is better than a great solution tomorrow, there are acceptable losses and casualties. This eventually (and quickly) leads to developing a very big ego and superiority context, since ownership rarely if ever exercises supervisory control/discretion over a HOS. Most ownership have no experience in professional education. They are often affluent business people, or they are often prominent local members or parents.
TRADITION:
Modeling is one of the primary ways we learn. We see others doing something and we believe thats how its supposed to be done. When a profession as a whole endorses a behavior either informally or formally then that becomes a standard. If you go against that standard its perceived as being weak, inexperienced, or not authoritative. You likely dont want to stay where you are forever, and admins have term set contracts as well, they want to get the next job, and that means impressing another schools ownership with the same if not better conduct and behavior as they had before. Going in with radical or rogue ideas and practices just looks threatening. Schools want someone thats going to keep the world spinning as they know it. There is not a lot of innovation in administration. Keep the parents happy, raise/keep enrollment up, minimize costs, improve scores. Thats really about it.
ENVIRONMENT:
Despite the authority and power a HOS has it isnt their school, they report to ownership (either a board, another organization, or an owner). You dont stay head or an admin long defying ownership. The school is basically what ownership imagines it to be and your really just ownerships representative handling the day to day management and tasks. Ownership has the long term strategic mission/goals/vision. Your job is to keep everything running smoothly.
Think of an IS as a delivery truck. The admin is the mechanic and manager, ownership owns the truck and the business, ITs are the drivers, customers the parents and the packages the students. The admins (mechanic/manager) job is to keep the vehicle running optimally, smoothly, efficiently, and as such they have a lot of say over what parts get used, the fuel, how long the truck runs, even who drives the truck. The mechanic though has to work with what ownership gives them. They an ask for high mileage parts but if ownership gives them inferior tools and parts there is only so much they can do. If ownership gives them cheap pads they have to do brake jobs more often, and they have to do them faster, meaning not as well, because ownership wants the truck working at maximum capacity. The same is true with admins, money is the biggest factor, ownership always wants you to do more with less, and if less gets the job done, thats whats going to happen.
A lot of bottom tier school out there have toxic ownership, its just numbers there are a lot more bottom tier schools than there are top tier schools and no upper tier IS is going to appoint a novice IS admin, so they get their experience and make their bones in the sewers and gutters of ISs. The good ones rise above it clean themselves off and move up and on, those are the rare ones. The bad ones (of which the majority are) just keep moving around the system from low tier school to low tier school.
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datsyukian
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:40 am
- Location: South America
Re: Please share your positive experiences
The students, campus, budget, freedom of curriculum, administration, money, weather, beaches, relationships, people, etc.
I have nothing but greatexperiences. Please understand that many people who frequent this website are here to complain and are likely unhappy people who will never be satisfied. I live in a very dangerous country with a plummeting economy but I am far more happy here than teaching in the States. I've learned that there are more or less three types of people who get into international teaching:
1. Adventurous people looking for a new experience and enjoy the excitement.
2. People looking to make and save more money.
3. People who think they are running away from their problems. Have no sense of reality and expect to find the conveniences of home.
Many are a mixture of these three.
Have a positive attitude and just go for it!
I have nothing but greatexperiences. Please understand that many people who frequent this website are here to complain and are likely unhappy people who will never be satisfied. I live in a very dangerous country with a plummeting economy but I am far more happy here than teaching in the States. I've learned that there are more or less three types of people who get into international teaching:
1. Adventurous people looking for a new experience and enjoy the excitement.
2. People looking to make and save more money.
3. People who think they are running away from their problems. Have no sense of reality and expect to find the conveniences of home.
Many are a mixture of these three.
Have a positive attitude and just go for it!
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Please share your positive experiences
While I have had some negative experiences in my IT career, they have been really minor in the big scheme of things and nothing that seriously impacted me in any way. Overall, the students, the experiences, the ability to expand your horizons in ways you cannot being at home are amazing.
Understand that bad things happen. Yes they do. Understand that some schools out there are not happy places. No, they aren't.
But those are the exception rather than the rule. Don't read too much into everything you read here - once you get out and get your IT legs under you, you will get a sense of what is what and it will all make more sense to you.
You will also get better at reading between the lines! haha
just my two cents
shad
Understand that bad things happen. Yes they do. Understand that some schools out there are not happy places. No, they aren't.
But those are the exception rather than the rule. Don't read too much into everything you read here - once you get out and get your IT legs under you, you will get a sense of what is what and it will all make more sense to you.
You will also get better at reading between the lines! haha
just my two cents
shad
Re: Please share your positive experiences
My wife and I had our share of frustrations at our previous school, but we worked with great teachers and we were both able to learn a lot about ourselves as teachers. We would never go back to that school or country, but there we are happy we did live and work there.
Where we are now is a world of difference. We work with more fantastic professionals (faculty, TA/EA, and Admin) in a great part of the world. Our PD is excellent. We are able to live a much better life here than if we lived back home in NA. Right now the toughest thing I am dealing with is trying to figure out a certain student, and trying to help that kid love school. This isn't far off what I would be doing in my home country, but, here, I have resources to help me with that.
There are many great, positive experiences out there ready to be had.
Where we are now is a world of difference. We work with more fantastic professionals (faculty, TA/EA, and Admin) in a great part of the world. Our PD is excellent. We are able to live a much better life here than if we lived back home in NA. Right now the toughest thing I am dealing with is trying to figure out a certain student, and trying to help that kid love school. This isn't far off what I would be doing in my home country, but, here, I have resources to help me with that.
There are many great, positive experiences out there ready to be had.
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chilagringa
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 pm
Re: Please share your positive experiences
I've only taught in one low-tier school (after all, they hired me pre-cert). Was it kind of a mess? Yes. Did the teachers bitch over beers on Friday? Yes. Were the students a little nuts? Yes.
However, I would not trade that time for anything. I loved the tight-knit staff, the freedom to do creative things in the classroom, and the fact that many of my classes were literally half the size of my classes right now. Plus, I lived in an amazing place.
However, I would not trade that time for anything. I loved the tight-knit staff, the freedom to do creative things in the classroom, and the fact that many of my classes were literally half the size of my classes right now. Plus, I lived in an amazing place.
Re: Please share your positive experiences
I love this life.
All frustrations (and they do exist) pale when balanced against all the wonderful people, places, experiences. No regrets at all.
All frustrations (and they do exist) pale when balanced against all the wonderful people, places, experiences. No regrets at all.
Re: Please share your positive experiences
Best, most rewarding decision I ever made. I make triple what I made in the States when you account for housing and tax loopholes, have limitless travel opportunities (which I can actually afford now), teach great kids who are eager to learn, and can't help but feel like life is my oyster given the endless possibility of schools and destinations from which I can choose in the future. Basically the opposite of my experience in the States, which I enjoyed as well but left me feeling trapped and unfulfilled.
There are negative people in every profession. Education is no different. International education is no different. That said, in general the people I work with internationally are much happier and more open-minded than those I worked with in the States. Perfect example, when I go home and visit one of my old schools, all I hear from my teacher friends is complaints about students, pay, and life in general. In my experiences, those complaints have been few and far between abroad. It helps to work at a good school. Naturally, people complain at bad ones and they do exist internationally. No shortage of bad ones in the States though.
I had never worked at a school where the majority of teachers weren't complainers... until I moved abroad.
There are negative people in every profession. Education is no different. International education is no different. That said, in general the people I work with internationally are much happier and more open-minded than those I worked with in the States. Perfect example, when I go home and visit one of my old schools, all I hear from my teacher friends is complaints about students, pay, and life in general. In my experiences, those complaints have been few and far between abroad. It helps to work at a good school. Naturally, people complain at bad ones and they do exist internationally. No shortage of bad ones in the States though.
I had never worked at a school where the majority of teachers weren't complainers... until I moved abroad.
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jessiejames
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:00 pm
Re: Please share your positive experiences
I would love to read more positive experiences! This is an interesting thread which counteracts a lot of the posts I have read lately on here about what a miserable disappointment teaching overseas is. I don't expect any miracles, but I do love teaching in my current school. I hope I will be able to say the same about my new school in August!