Newbie is Feeling Overwhelmed!

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Veracious
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:30 am

Newbie is Feeling Overwhelmed!

Post by Veracious »

Hello, all
First post. I am new to the site and just starting to consider the possibility of teaching internationally. It's been on my bucket list my entire career, but raising a family, and other choices, kept me from exploring this opportunity. I'm feeling very overwhelmed at the moment....normal, I'm sure. :)

I have A few questions:

I recently joined the members area so I could review some of the schools, and while I am really excited at the idea of starting this journey, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed at the many negative reviews I'm reading there. Since many of the schools don't have reviews, or they are quite old, is asking here, on the forum, the best way to find out about schools?

I'm not sure what my chances are for getting a job. I'm a new member at Search, file is active, everything is ready to go and I've started to apply to schools. I'm worried about my chances, though. Here's my details: I'm 48 years old, single, no children will be accompanying me since mine are adults now, and I have been teaching at the elementary level for about 18 years. I have a Master's Degree and an endorsement in Library Media. I have great references from 5 principals and a parent. I was wondering if I have a better chance with Library Media to get my foot in the door? Any words of encouragement? Or otherwise, realistic feedback? :)

I get the idea of Tier 1, or the top schools, who will likely hire couples and those with experience, but how do I go about finding out which schools are considered good Tier 2 schools? Would you focus on those? Or try for the top spots anyway?

I just spent 3 hours on an application for my first choice (Panama) because I'm adding in specifics to my CV and hadn't written a teaching philosophy since college.....and it's changed since then. :) Are people really finding they need to spend this much time on each application?

Any advice for this overwhelmed newbie would be appreciated.
wrldtrvlr123
Posts: 1173
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
Location: Japan

Re: Newbie is Feeling Overwhelmed!

Post by wrldtrvlr123 »

Hi. Welcome.

Yes, there are quite a few somewhat dodgy and/or mediocre schools out there but doesn't mean that you can't find a position at a perfectly doable and even rewarding and enjoyable school.

"Tier 1" schools are quite happy to employ single teachers with no dependents. They also hire many teachers straight from their home countries so don't let your status and experience stop you from applying anywhere. Elementary teachers are quite common but then again so are elementary positions. Generally your strength area will be where your certifications and actual teaching experience coincide. Library positions can be hard to fill so I would keep an eye out for those as well.

The best strategy is generally to keep up to date with job postings you are qualified for and compare the information on Search with reviews on ISR and/or post questions about specific schools here. Don't worry about Tiers. Is the location somewhere you could see yourself living for a few years? Does it seem like you could live well and save a decent amount based on the package? Does the school at least have a decent reputation and seem like a fairly stable and enjoyable place to work? Those are the important things.

Applications get easier with practice. Once you have a base CV and cover letter then it is much easier to then adjust them a bit to fit a specific position/school's philosophy/etc. I think you have an excellent chance to find a good position overseas but being open to multiple locations will greatly increase your chances.

Feel to free to ask any further questions or PM.
Cali.Girl
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:45 am

Re: Newbie is Feeling Overwhelmed!

Post by Cali.Girl »

Yes! It really does take that long for each application! Be sure to look at the school's strategic plan and make sure your cover letter hits some of those points. You want your letter to be noticed!
tangchao
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:16 pm

Re: Newbie is Feeling Overwhelmed!

Post by tangchao »

As for the negative reviews, ask yourself: what would happen if there were a website like this for the national schools where you come from? Would all the schools you have worked at received glowing appraisals from all the teachers who had worked there or would there be a few axe grinders?
PsyGuy
Posts: 10793
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Re: Newbie is Feeling Overwhelmed!

Post by PsyGuy »

No review is about as close as you get to a good review on the paid side. This site is essentially a dumping ground for complaints and vetting frustrations. When you look at the quality and reputation of ISs there are A LOT more third tier and bottom tier schools than elite schools. So much so that you wouldnt even see the top schools.

I'd like to think this forum is a very good part of an overall school evaluation system that would include expat forums as well as testimonials from the school (though I personally consider them nearly worthless on content, as no admin is going to set you up with a teacher or faculty member that isnt a cheerleader for the school), you can always write/email someone at the school on the faculty if you can call them off the record. Another source is your agency rep (but they tend to recommend any offer, as they get paid when your placed).

In general you can sell what you teach. The rule in recruiting is that there are two factors about a teacher that matter: 1) What you can teach (certification, degrees, etc) and 2) What you have taught (experience). Of the two experience is king. No amount of training equals any amount of experience. As a librarian you have zero experience, why would any admin or recruiter give you the keys to the library when there are candidates out there with more experience (meaning any experience).

My issue is that your old, not too old, as 50 is about the point your either settled, a veteran or your an admin moving around still. Understand that once you hit 55 and up you start hitting visa problems. As a result retirement is going to be a major issue to consider. You very likely will not be able to retire out of an IS, so you would need to have a state side retirement?

Aside from that your not very marketable internationally you have no IB, or IGCSE experience, and American curriculum schools tend to be the top elite tier schools in a region or the bottom tier schools because they dont have anything else, and you dont need membership to have an AP focused paradigm. Without prior IS experience I dont see an elite school considering you very competitive.

There is no objective definition of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3, and as such there is no "master list" of who is in which list, and to that end even if there was no one would agree on it. Youd have some consensus with schools like WAB (Beijing), and ISB (Bangkok), but there would still be a lot of disagreement. Though if your on the international school circuit long enough you get a feel for which schools are at which tier. School quality also has a lot to do with where you are a tier 2 school in Hong Kong, might be a tier 1 school in mainland China...

There is no "definition" of Tier 1, Tier 2, or Tier 3. Its all subjective, in general when teachers describe a tier 1, etc school from one another it comes down to

1) Compensation package
2) Work environment.

Historically the compensation package is the priority, not because of greed or anything, but because its easy to quantify. If your in Brazil, $30K is better then $28K. Schools that pay more for a given region tend to have more stable finances (a sign of longevity, given enrollment, and reputation), and have larger endowments, meaning they have been around long enough to develop efficiency and have well planed capitol projects. Better schools can charge more in fees, and be more selective in their admissions. This creates more "cash" on hand for salaries and benefits.

COMPENSATION:

Typically includes (in this order of importance/priority:

1) Salary (based on number of contract or teaching hours per week)
2) Housing (including utility costs)
3) Tuition (If you have kids. In addition if you have a non teaching spouse, how easy is it for them to find a job)
4) Transportation (Including Airfare, moving, and settling in allowances).
5) Insurance (Mostly how good the medical is)
6) Retirement (Including end of year bonuses).

WORK ENVIRONMENT:

Working conditions is the far more subjective of the two. It means something slightly different to everyone. But can include as a general principal (and these get more "fuzzy" the lower I go):

1) Staff/Faculty/Parents:How qualified are your co teachers? Do they know what they are doing? Do the aids, secretaries try and help you? Is the PTA crazy helicopter parents? Are the parents really the ones running the school?

2) Admins Management Style: Biggest reason for a school to go down hill. Does the admin back the teachers? Are they just a spokesperson for the owners? Do they yield to parent pressure? Do they value faculty input? Do they care?

3) Organization: Does the front/back office run efficiently? Do you get reimbursed in a timely fashion? Are salaries paid on time? Is the school relationship with the local immigration bureau good, can they process visas, permits, etc quickly?

4) Resources: Do you have a projector? Access to computers, internet? Can you make copies when you need too. What about textbooks, are they old and out dated, do teachers even use them? Whats the library look like? Whats the cafeteria look like (do they feed the teacher lunch?) Do you have a classroom/department budget, or do you have to ask for everything?

5) Academics: Do they have a curriculum? Do they use the curriculum? Does the department share a common curriculum or does everybody teach what they know and prefer? What are the assessment/grading policies and procedures?

6) Community: Are the people nice, friendly, helpful? What's there too do in the area? Is it safe? Clean? Is transportation easily accessible? Availability of shopping/groceries? Medical Care? This could be a long one....

JOB SEARCH:

1st tier schools are typically non-profit private prepatory schools that focus on an international student body. They are very westernized, and would be very similar to a private school in western cultures.

2nd tier schools are private private non-profits that act like for profits. They are predominately domestic students, who are affluent. They are equivalent to a "good" public school in a western culture.

3rd tier schools are for profit schools that are run as business. The purpose is to make generate revenue, and provide the owner with some level of prestige and status. Education is just the product, the students parents just the consumers.

Most 3rd tier schools advertise on TIE Online, Joy Jobs, and with SEARCH. You can also find them on Daves ESL Cafe (They advertise everywhere, except the "selective" recruitment agencies, such as ISS)

Tier 3 schools either pay very well because the only reason someone would work there is the money, or they pay enough to get by. Most of these schools are in the middle east or africa. There are some very "beautiful" schools that Dante could use to deepen the levels of hell a bit, and the only reason they have faculty is because 1) The money, 2) Desperate teachers who cant do any better. Of course one issue that i see common with Tier 3 schools is related to "safety" either the regional culture is very very rigid, with serious consequences for what you might consider "minor rule infractions" or the region/area could become quickly hostile and dangerous...

Your typical "ESL School" is right around the border between tier 3 and tier 2 schools.

"Elite" (also called prestige or premier) schools are a subset of tier 1 schools, that represent the top school(s) in the region.

An "elite" or "premiere" international school is simply the top (or contested top) tier one school in a region (or city). What differentiates them is they usually have the best reputation in an area as "THE" school, and you see that in a compensation package that is substantially higher then the other tier one schools in the area, as well as in their staff support, resources, and facilities.

For example; ISB (Bangkok) is typically seen as the elite school in Bangkok. ISB (Beijing) is usually tied with WAB (Western Academy of Beijing) in Beijing/China. SAS (Singapore American School) is seen as the elite school in Singapore. ASP (Paris) is the elite school is France. IS Frankfurt is usually (lot of debate on this) considered the Elite school in Germany. ASIJ is well thought of as the elite school in Japan.

Tier status is only comparable to other schools within a region. Local economies, costs of living, cultural differences make global comparisons unhelpful. For example; most european schools dont provide housing, and taxes are high so even though salaries would rival many that you would find in a place like China, the savings potential and lifestyle you can live are very different (and often better in asia).

Elite (also called premier) doesnt equal easy. Elite schools typically expect a lot from their teachers. Some teachers thrive in that environment, some dont.
Why a separate category? well there is typically a substantial and significant increase in work and compensation between the "elite" school and the other tier one schools.

I guess thats 4 levels. is there a lower level, some people throw tier 4, and lower levels around, but i have to think that is really just an individual adding insult to injury when they call a particular school a "tier 4" school.

No they dont all take that much time, most shouldnt be longer then a few minutes to send an email with attachments. Application wise my experience averages about an hours depending on the school, and their applications tech abilities (typing it all in by hand , or upload, and pre-fill).
Veracious
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:30 am

Re: Newbie is Feeling Overwhelmed!

Post by Veracious »

Thanks, everyone!

"As a librarian you have zero experience, why would any admin or recruiter give you the keys to the library when there are candidates out there with more experience (meaning any experience)." psyguy

I forgot to mention that I do have some experience as a librarian. Two years. It's not a lot but just enough, I should think.

"My issue is that your old, not too old, as 50 is about the point your either settled, a veteran or your an admin moving around still. Understand that once you hit 55 and up you start hitting visa problems. As a result retirement is going to be a major issue to consider. You very likely will not be able to retire out of an IS, so you would need to have a state side retirement?" psyguy

I was a little concerned about age, but the folks at Search didn't seem to think it would be that big of an issue. I have looked at the information page for dozens of schools and, really, almost all list 60-65 as the age limit for visas. I hope that is true. I have probably another 15-20 years of teaching left. I am not really planning to retire from an IS. I still am a bit confused about how retirement issues work when in the international circuit, but I'll figure that out.

"Without prior IS experience I don't see an elite school considering you very competitive." psyguy

Nearly every single school information page has said they will hire qualified teachers without experience, so I have to hold out hope that is true.

I think I am realistic about my chances, but still very hopeful at this point since it's something I've always wanted to experience.

"Yes! It really does take that long for each application! Be sure to look at the school's strategic plan and make sure your cover letter hits some of those points. You want your letter to be noticed!" Caligirl

Yes, that's great advice and I am doing that! For each position I am interested in, I am reading every word of the school's website and making sure my cover letter includes things that are very specific to what I've read. :) I just didn't realize, at first, that doing that, and filling out the application online, and sending things off would take an average of three hours. But, as wrldtrvlr123 said, now I have a baseline cover letter and the rest of the letters can be a slight twist on what's already there.

"Library positions can be hard to fill so I would keep an eye out for those as well." wrldtrvlr123

I have been told this very thing. One of the librarians I've worked with has done the international circuit for many years and said schools often have a tough time filling these positions.

Thanks again, everyone!
wwilson
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:02 pm

Re: Newbie is Feeling Overwhelmed!

Post by wwilson »

I am a newbie too. Yes I feel completely overwhelmed also. It feels like every waking moment has been consumed by sending out documents, revising letters and CV, researching school etc. The learning curve to figure out all of this is huge and steep.
My situation is similar to you - North American, no international experience, top of the age range, specialist teacher. I think it is doable and I have decided if you don't try, you will never know .....and then you will have regrets.
I have just in the past few days received a few interview requests which is encouraging.
Hang in there. I think its a roller coaster ride and you just have to stay on!
PsyGuy
Posts: 10793
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Northern Europe

Response

Post by PsyGuy »

@Veracious

The two years does make a difference. Which is the most recent the primary or the librarian? If the librarian is the most recent than its something doable. You need to consider though that as a librarian your an entry level IT, as a primary teacher your more marketable. primary will take you anywhere, where as library will limit your opportunities. Primary can lead you into PYP, which is very marketable, and would increase your marketability sooner. Library isnt doing to do that.

SA also use to accept candidates and take their money who wee humanities/language arts teachers with a trailing spouse and two kids, who were never going to get offers. Age discrimination is still very real and prominent in ISs. The elite schools much less so, but your not competitive at that level. Your looking at about 6 years before your ready to go into the elite tier room. Thats mid 5os and the point where frustrations really begin to mount, because who wants to hire someone whos a couple years from retirement. In IT you have about 10 years left, before you need to be settled somewhere with tenure and PR, and you have about 6 years to get there, which is cutting it pretty close.

Retirement doesnt really work in IE. The plan is generally to get to WEUR with tenure and a social welfare and pension system you can retire out of. Bottom tier school give you nothing and low tier schools, generally give you 1/2 to 1 months salary at the end of the year/contract. Youc an invest this if you wish but there is no matching contribution and your on your own. Upper tier schools will sometimes offer plans similar to 401Ks for example but the vesting time is very long 5 years up to 10 years before you can claim the contributions, and you have to retire out of that school to collect the benefit, meaning you have to make a career of it at that school.

Of course they say they hire qualified teachers without experience, if they have a very small candidate pool and its you or a handful of uni grads, your far more marketable compared to them. The realistic issue is that the candidate pool is going to have a significant number of higher value applicants, who really do have everything, these are the elite schools they dont have to prowl for applications.

I dont see librarians as a difficult position to fill. Library is not a globally recognized qualification. Outside the USA Information systems, technology, business and English/Reading educators have filled the position. Its not uncommon for the school librarian at a small school to be a family, friend or associate of ownership, or leadership.
UnCloudy
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri May 30, 2014 7:47 pm

Re: Newbie is Feeling Overwhelmed!

Post by UnCloudy »

Deleted. Best wishes!
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