Response Time?
Response Time?
Hi Everyone - This is my first time using Search and applying to international schools. The process is quite intense! I just wondered what the response time is for an interested response (if any interest exists!) I have received various various "We've received your application." emails. Now I am wondering how long or when schools begin to reach out to candidates. Thanks!
Re: Response Time?
Out of the 25+ applications I've sent out and the 4 "human" responses I have received 2 responded to me immediately and the remainder took over 2 weeks. Don't lose hope. Unless you are high needs, which I am not, there is no reason for them to try and hire you immediately. There are plenty of fish in the sea.
Re: Response Time?
That's a pretty open-ended question. On the average it might take up to 4 weeks to get a response or an interview call from established schools. This window could be smaller for mid and lower-tier schools and those in less desirable locations.
With more and more schools using Schrole and Skype to recruit teachers, I hope the response time gets even shorter in the years to come.
With more and more schools using Schrole and Skype to recruit teachers, I hope the response time gets even shorter in the years to come.
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wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Response Time?
Not to be flippant but how does from minutes, to never sound? That's been my experience anyways. I've had a principal email me within minutes of my CV being sent when the BKK fair I was attending was right around the corner and I've had many, many applications that were never responded to at all.
On the flipside, I've also had requests for interviews for positions/schools I've NEVER applied for (although none I would really want to apply for, unfortunately). Depending on the time of year, if there is going to be an interest in interviewing then you are usually looking at a few weeks, give or take.
On the flipside, I've also had requests for interviews for positions/schools I've NEVER applied for (although none I would really want to apply for, unfortunately). Depending on the time of year, if there is going to be an interest in interviewing then you are usually looking at a few weeks, give or take.
Re: Response Time?
My family owns a business in the States that employs, hires, and fires dozens of employees. Discussing the hiring process in international teaching with my father/brothers I find the average school's handling of the this process very unprofessional, capricious, and sometimes delusional.
Given that we are a profession that often obsesses with protocol and procedure there should be clearer parameters for dealing with this.
Why is is when I have 15 confidential references, my CV, and biographical information already on Search I always have to send all this information again? Why do I have to fill out your in-house application interface when all this info is already in my profile? Why do I have to waste an hour+ per application when I am trying to grade exams and play with my dog?
My favorite though is what you find while prospecting schools, i.e. Kingston, Jamaica-a complete and total dump-that requires 5 years of IB teaching experience??? Who in their right mind with 5 years of IB experience would do that? How about you move to Beirut, Lebanon and live ensconced by a Civil War to save $3000 dollars a year, while having to evade car bombs? One could make more money and enjoy a higher quality of life than either of the above illegally teaching English in China. What we all should be looking for is value and balance and that's what schools should be trying to provide.
But back to the point-funnily enough, some of the fastest turnarounds I've received are from top-tier schools telling me I'm not qualified to teach there. I'd rather receive this than nothing at all and to me it demonstrates value on the part of the school to have the decency to get back to you so one can scratch it off their list.
Given that we are a profession that often obsesses with protocol and procedure there should be clearer parameters for dealing with this.
Why is is when I have 15 confidential references, my CV, and biographical information already on Search I always have to send all this information again? Why do I have to fill out your in-house application interface when all this info is already in my profile? Why do I have to waste an hour+ per application when I am trying to grade exams and play with my dog?
My favorite though is what you find while prospecting schools, i.e. Kingston, Jamaica-a complete and total dump-that requires 5 years of IB teaching experience??? Who in their right mind with 5 years of IB experience would do that? How about you move to Beirut, Lebanon and live ensconced by a Civil War to save $3000 dollars a year, while having to evade car bombs? One could make more money and enjoy a higher quality of life than either of the above illegally teaching English in China. What we all should be looking for is value and balance and that's what schools should be trying to provide.
But back to the point-funnily enough, some of the fastest turnarounds I've received are from top-tier schools telling me I'm not qualified to teach there. I'd rather receive this than nothing at all and to me it demonstrates value on the part of the school to have the decency to get back to you so one can scratch it off their list.
Re: Response Time?
i second the above.
my wife and i have spent a lot of time doing search but some of the best schools (not necessarily top tier, but ones we were interested in) require you to apply through their own intranet application. the sas application was brutal for example. there are others in europe and elsewhere that were similar. i don't get it. i figure it's mostly due to the school having an established hr department but i could be wrong.
to the op's question - again it varies considerably. we've had auto responses of course, but quickest real person was about a couple of hours after applying. you will see it increase exponentially from here on out. a lot of schools will know by winter break - definite and potential openings - and the rest will know by early january. many of the schools have a quick chat with you if they have lots of candidates, pick several they like, then likely do a second interview. but as cafare52 says, it varies wildly.
good luck
v.
my wife and i have spent a lot of time doing search but some of the best schools (not necessarily top tier, but ones we were interested in) require you to apply through their own intranet application. the sas application was brutal for example. there are others in europe and elsewhere that were similar. i don't get it. i figure it's mostly due to the school having an established hr department but i could be wrong.
to the op's question - again it varies considerably. we've had auto responses of course, but quickest real person was about a couple of hours after applying. you will see it increase exponentially from here on out. a lot of schools will know by winter break - definite and potential openings - and the rest will know by early january. many of the schools have a quick chat with you if they have lots of candidates, pick several they like, then likely do a second interview. but as cafare52 says, it varies wildly.
good luck
v.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Response Time?
Our last recruiting cycle we sent out 15 - 20 applications and CVs expressing interest. We didn't hear back from a lot; however, the week after we returned from Bangkok with a job, 3 of the schools we applied to wanted to interview us.
I think that's just how it goes.
Good luck to everybody with your searches!
shad
I think that's just how it goes.
Good luck to everybody with your searches!
shad
Re: Response Time?
Just to give a school's perspective. I work at a relatively small school and have received almost two hundred applications/letters of interest in about a week. I simply do not have the time, at this point, to respond. I have prioritized my hard to fill positions and couples and are communicating with those.
In my time recruiting, there has been as increase in candidates and some schools do not have the HR resources to communicate will applicants, and do all the other things you have to do to run a school.
In my time recruiting, there has been as increase in candidates and some schools do not have the HR resources to communicate will applicants, and do all the other things you have to do to run a school.
Re: Response Time?
No doubt it is easier to see one's own side of this issue, and it is important to realize that there is another perspective. Nonetheless, there are steps all schools can take to improve this process. For example, if an email account is set up to receive applications, then it can also be set to automatically respond that the application has been received, including the disclaimer that only short-listed candidates will be contacted (preferably with a timeline included). Many schools do this. This alleviates applicants from wondering if their submission was received, and perhaps cuts down on emails as they don't send it again.
Expecting onerous online application forms to be filled out to perfection doesn't speak highly of a school's respect for the time of teaching professionals. Expecting this to be done after some sort of preliminary vetting is more reasonable. How can an applicant - one who has the qualities schools are looking for thus is devoting more that 50 hours per week at his/her CURRENT position find the time to do many of these applications? I once spent almost 5 hours on an online application with multiple essay answers required, in addition to physical addresses and home phone numbers of reference writers - which all needed to be looked up, only to discover that while I was completing it, the school had changed their postings, deleting the position.
And don't even get me started on the schools that advertise positions as definite even though they are not so as to attract more applicants. Never mind that if the position doesn't materialize, all those applicants wasted their time.
Here's a personal pet peeve: keeping pay and benefits a mystery. I have gone through several interviews at multiple schools without having the slightest idea of whether it could even be considered due to financial obligations and realities on my end. When a position is offered and this secret finally revealed, only to have to turn it down, then the administrators have also wasted a great deal of time. Yet I've worked for a man who, if a teacher asked about money, he immediately discounted as they were 'in it for the wrong reasons.' Right, because people become teachers to get rich and they don't have the same financial concerns as he did - with his 6 figure salary that he was able to negotiate prior to resigning his previous position.
In brief, thankfully I am careful to never treat the students in my classes the way that some administrators feel free to treat people who might be potential great hires for them. I differentiate. I respond to queries promptly. I give transparent and thorough feedback. I try to keep their perspectives in mind and consider why they approach things the way they do. I don't assign busy work. I make it clear what their rewards will be. If I did to students some of the things I have seen done to teachers, I would - and should - be fired.
Expecting onerous online application forms to be filled out to perfection doesn't speak highly of a school's respect for the time of teaching professionals. Expecting this to be done after some sort of preliminary vetting is more reasonable. How can an applicant - one who has the qualities schools are looking for thus is devoting more that 50 hours per week at his/her CURRENT position find the time to do many of these applications? I once spent almost 5 hours on an online application with multiple essay answers required, in addition to physical addresses and home phone numbers of reference writers - which all needed to be looked up, only to discover that while I was completing it, the school had changed their postings, deleting the position.
And don't even get me started on the schools that advertise positions as definite even though they are not so as to attract more applicants. Never mind that if the position doesn't materialize, all those applicants wasted their time.
Here's a personal pet peeve: keeping pay and benefits a mystery. I have gone through several interviews at multiple schools without having the slightest idea of whether it could even be considered due to financial obligations and realities on my end. When a position is offered and this secret finally revealed, only to have to turn it down, then the administrators have also wasted a great deal of time. Yet I've worked for a man who, if a teacher asked about money, he immediately discounted as they were 'in it for the wrong reasons.' Right, because people become teachers to get rich and they don't have the same financial concerns as he did - with his 6 figure salary that he was able to negotiate prior to resigning his previous position.
In brief, thankfully I am careful to never treat the students in my classes the way that some administrators feel free to treat people who might be potential great hires for them. I differentiate. I respond to queries promptly. I give transparent and thorough feedback. I try to keep their perspectives in mind and consider why they approach things the way they do. I don't assign busy work. I make it clear what their rewards will be. If I did to students some of the things I have seen done to teachers, I would - and should - be fired.
Re: Response Time?
@Rudolph
You hit so many nails on their heads. Even established schools don't talk about pay openly as if it is a carnal sin or something, but they love to talk at length about commitment, service, involvement in school life, million dollar facilities etc., which mean nothing without happy and contented faculty.
As long as schools are run by mediocre administrators and supply exceeds the demand, I don't see much light at the end of the tunnel.
You hit so many nails on their heads. Even established schools don't talk about pay openly as if it is a carnal sin or something, but they love to talk at length about commitment, service, involvement in school life, million dollar facilities etc., which mean nothing without happy and contented faculty.
As long as schools are run by mediocre administrators and supply exceeds the demand, I don't see much light at the end of the tunnel.
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shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
Re: Response Time?
rudoph,
now let's turn it around. If a candidate REALLY wants to work at my school, he or she will follow the process. Yes, it is time consuming, but IMHO, it is worth it to separate those who are serious from the fly-by-nighters who are targetting any school in the area.
If a teacher is unwilling to follow this process, what processes will they think "onerous" that might be very important to a school given location, government procedure requirements, and organizational setup? How can a school of 2,000 students and 300+ teachers who are working to the highest standard not vet potential hires to the nth degree?
As to jobs disappearing because the posting is deleted, how can the school not offer a position to an amazing candidate when they pop out of the woodwork? (yes, I know we are all amazing :-) I have not been offered jobs I KNOW I would do amazingly well and want to be doing a long time, in the location where the school is, only to see the job pop up one or two years later. Irritating, but that's life as an international teacher - bit of a crapshoot). It sucks, but it is the reality.
I agree the school should have an automated reply system - but I would blame that more on the IT at the school than the director/superintendent, who often is not tech-savvy. I also agree that switch and bait or advertising potential openings as definite is also not kosher. I interviewed for a position a few years back and it was only at the interview I was told it was a potential situation. It cheesed me off a bit, because I didn't want to interview for 'potential' openings, only actual ones.
Finally about the salary - most schools I have interviewed with have either (a) had their salary on their websites or (b) had it listed with Search or TIEonline. I try to avoid ones that don't list it because, like you, I believe it wastes my time. I don't want to (and can't afford to!) work for $25,000 a year at this point in my life. Earlier, maybe. Later on, maybe, if the school and location were right. But now? No thanks.
However it goes, keep in mind we are free to apply or not apply for jobs and to use their online application process or not use their online application process or not. Obviously, if we put the time into doing so, we believe the position is worth it.
Just my 2 cents.
shad
now let's turn it around. If a candidate REALLY wants to work at my school, he or she will follow the process. Yes, it is time consuming, but IMHO, it is worth it to separate those who are serious from the fly-by-nighters who are targetting any school in the area.
If a teacher is unwilling to follow this process, what processes will they think "onerous" that might be very important to a school given location, government procedure requirements, and organizational setup? How can a school of 2,000 students and 300+ teachers who are working to the highest standard not vet potential hires to the nth degree?
As to jobs disappearing because the posting is deleted, how can the school not offer a position to an amazing candidate when they pop out of the woodwork? (yes, I know we are all amazing :-) I have not been offered jobs I KNOW I would do amazingly well and want to be doing a long time, in the location where the school is, only to see the job pop up one or two years later. Irritating, but that's life as an international teacher - bit of a crapshoot). It sucks, but it is the reality.
I agree the school should have an automated reply system - but I would blame that more on the IT at the school than the director/superintendent, who often is not tech-savvy. I also agree that switch and bait or advertising potential openings as definite is also not kosher. I interviewed for a position a few years back and it was only at the interview I was told it was a potential situation. It cheesed me off a bit, because I didn't want to interview for 'potential' openings, only actual ones.
Finally about the salary - most schools I have interviewed with have either (a) had their salary on their websites or (b) had it listed with Search or TIEonline. I try to avoid ones that don't list it because, like you, I believe it wastes my time. I don't want to (and can't afford to!) work for $25,000 a year at this point in my life. Earlier, maybe. Later on, maybe, if the school and location were right. But now? No thanks.
However it goes, keep in mind we are free to apply or not apply for jobs and to use their online application process or not use their online application process or not. Obviously, if we put the time into doing so, we believe the position is worth it.
Just my 2 cents.
shad
Re: Response Time?
Shadowjack -
Please note my post did not reject vetting, it simply supported some sort of preliminary vetting prior to the step of spending 5 hours on multiple essays on topics which teachers (not fly by nighters) don't take lightly, therefore require thought and careful writing.
Consider my colleague who, beyond the standard application letter, personal philosophy statement, reasons for applying and what he could uniquely bring to school, etc., was then asked to fill out 10 answers using less than 400 words each on fairly complex issues and potential problems to apply for a position - and given 2 days to respond. He spent hours on it in the midst of an intense school week, submitted it, then learned through a general announcement one day later (no personal response) that another person had been selected - and it was clear that the job had never really been open at all. The person selected had a past connection with the administrator and had applied PRIOR to the position being opened, and no one else was interviewed.
So why open it up? Why have this lengthy process for people who wouldn't be considered regardless? In my career I've seen similar scenarios happen numerous times, yes, even at top schools by top administrators.
We strive daily to live up to very lofty ideals, mission statements, and philosophies. We keep the IB profile of learning in mind when dealing with our dozens and dozens of students per day, hundreds per week, etc. Simply treat teachers as well as you want them to treat students, that's what I ask of all administrators. I can name numerous administrators from experience who do just that, and for them I have been quite grateful.
Please note my post did not reject vetting, it simply supported some sort of preliminary vetting prior to the step of spending 5 hours on multiple essays on topics which teachers (not fly by nighters) don't take lightly, therefore require thought and careful writing.
Consider my colleague who, beyond the standard application letter, personal philosophy statement, reasons for applying and what he could uniquely bring to school, etc., was then asked to fill out 10 answers using less than 400 words each on fairly complex issues and potential problems to apply for a position - and given 2 days to respond. He spent hours on it in the midst of an intense school week, submitted it, then learned through a general announcement one day later (no personal response) that another person had been selected - and it was clear that the job had never really been open at all. The person selected had a past connection with the administrator and had applied PRIOR to the position being opened, and no one else was interviewed.
So why open it up? Why have this lengthy process for people who wouldn't be considered regardless? In my career I've seen similar scenarios happen numerous times, yes, even at top schools by top administrators.
We strive daily to live up to very lofty ideals, mission statements, and philosophies. We keep the IB profile of learning in mind when dealing with our dozens and dozens of students per day, hundreds per week, etc. Simply treat teachers as well as you want them to treat students, that's what I ask of all administrators. I can name numerous administrators from experience who do just that, and for them I have been quite grateful.
Re: Response Time?
P.S. However, I give NO excuse to administrators who might not be aware of what their tech dept. is and isn't doing in terms of automated responses, etc. If you have applied for any teaching position in the last decade, one question you were no doubt asked is how you integrated technology into your curriculum. How can an administrator judge that who hasn't kept up with technology? Even if they can't do it themselves, they should be able to instruct others to do it.
Re: Response Time?
Saying the senior management is less tech-savvy and doesn't prevail on the tech dept is like saying, "Oh, I forgot my dog leash at home, sorry if my dog bit you!" That's insane.
Real leaders, even if they are not geeky, will make sure that loopholes are plugged so that some tech moron doesn't tarnish their 50-year history.
Administrators are not so naive to be not able to distinguish between fly-by-nighters and passionate educators. If you see competent candidates, you make sure they at least get an automated response because the same candidates might be your prospective teachers, two or three years down the line. Worse case scenario: they may never apply to your school.
Now my favourite: "Our school's mission is to hire, retain and train teachers of highest calibre." Ouch, your tech department just forgot your mission statement.
Real leaders, even if they are not geeky, will make sure that loopholes are plugged so that some tech moron doesn't tarnish their 50-year history.
Administrators are not so naive to be not able to distinguish between fly-by-nighters and passionate educators. If you see competent candidates, you make sure they at least get an automated response because the same candidates might be your prospective teachers, two or three years down the line. Worse case scenario: they may never apply to your school.
Now my favourite: "Our school's mission is to hire, retain and train teachers of highest calibre." Ouch, your tech department just forgot your mission statement.
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jstwatchin
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:27 pm
Re: Response Time?
In regards to internal online application forms:
I am currently in China, where the internet appears to get slower by the month (if not by the day). While some of those internal forms may or may not bear some logic, it is sometimes physically impossible for me to go through them. Case in point: I attempted to fill out one belonging to a chain of schools earlier this week. Things kept reloading and crashing over and over, it took me over 10 hours to go through everything that was asked. At the end (so I thought) the thing just crashed entirely and l was never actually able to submit anything. To make it worse, I do not remember one single thing in the application system that cannot also be found on my resume and supporting information.
Once winter vacation ends next week, I simply will not have the time available to go through this again and teach at the same time. Do those in charge of hiring not realize that the whole world does not yet have access to the super-fast internet some of their countries enjoy?
I am currently in China, where the internet appears to get slower by the month (if not by the day). While some of those internal forms may or may not bear some logic, it is sometimes physically impossible for me to go through them. Case in point: I attempted to fill out one belonging to a chain of schools earlier this week. Things kept reloading and crashing over and over, it took me over 10 hours to go through everything that was asked. At the end (so I thought) the thing just crashed entirely and l was never actually able to submit anything. To make it worse, I do not remember one single thing in the application system that cannot also be found on my resume and supporting information.
Once winter vacation ends next week, I simply will not have the time available to go through this again and teach at the same time. Do those in charge of hiring not realize that the whole world does not yet have access to the super-fast internet some of their countries enjoy?