China Pollution

[Climberman]

Any schools in China where you won't sacrifice your future health by working a few years? I check the AQI (air quality index)in real time and the vast majority of Chinese cities are always above 150 (unhealthy) and usually from 200 - 300 or higher!

How can anyone go to Beijing anymore? Shanghai? Is it just the money? I can't see going home to an air filtered house and wearing masks. And who knows what chemicals are in those smog clouds or in the ground and food. If you are in Beijing or Shanghai, etc. please let me know what got you there.

How about Xiamen. I hear that it still is pretty clean.

Thanks for any help.

[eion_padraig]

I'd say Shenzhen consistently has the best air quality of the bigger Chinese cities. Don't get me wrong, it has bad stretches but probably on the order of other big Asian cities in Southeast Asia. Hong Kong's air quality is better still, but again that's a different story.

In general the pollution levels in the South of the country tend to be lower. More moisture/rain keeps the air pollution levels down during the year. Also, part of Beijing's pollution is from the dust that blows in from the desert. Being right along the coast tends to help too.

Yeah, pollution is an issue in China. Everyone has to decide what is important to them. I value my physical safety here a lot. I'd have a hard time going to a country where I'd get robbed a gun point or mugged. Several of my colleagues came here from countries in South America where those were daily concerns.

I wouldn't advise people who have asthma or are sensitive to air pollution to come to China.

[wrldtrvlr123]

We were in Beijing 2 years ago (for years). We lived in a luxury western style apt but did not have any special air filters at home. We generally enjoyed the two years and had a very nice lifestyle with great cultural sites, very restaurants within easy reach and wide availability of western goods at reasonable prices.

Were we choking on chunky toxic air every day? No. Did the air get/feel oppressive and worrisome at times, and stay that way for a week or so? Yes. We also had quite a few bluish sky days in a row depending on the time of year (26 in a row our first fall/winter). Is it unhealthy? Without a doubt. But, it is doable, even enjoyable for a few years and the pollution is not a deal breaker for many people if the school/position is right (and you do not have a special health condition).

[hallier]

Try Guangzhou - AISG.

Air quality not great, but better than Beijing/Shanghai.

The city is not as interesting as those 2, but you are close to HK and Macao.

[Fluffy123]

We were in Shanghai for 2 years - it is really as bad as you will see on the AQI - for credibility, follow the US Embassy reporting. Apparently my old school now employs 'pollution play' - just as well as I remember one awful day where visibility was about 100m, PM10 over 200 and the kids were all outside at after school activities. Horrible. I loved the city but would never live there again.

[Yantantether]

hallier wrote:
> Try Guangzhou - AISG.
>
> Air quality not great, but better than Beijing/Shanghai.
>
> The city is not as interesting as those 2, but you are close to HK and
> Macao.


I was in Guangzhou for a visit last year and I couldn't breath. Anyone with respiratory issues should give serious consideration to their health before going to China.

[expatartist]

What brought me to Beijing:
* The art made and shown here is among the best in the world today
* The goal to learn Mandarin with a coherent accent
* The desire to experience life in a Dickensian city at a fascinating point in history

What's kept me here:
* My job. Love it!
* The art made here, people I can collaborate with
* My art projects

Beijing - like most Chinese cities - isn't for most people who have a choice of where to live. But it was my choice to move here, and 99% of the time, I'm very happy I did, and am reaching personal and professional goals in this city which I can't elsewhere. However I will transfer out or leave eventually - the pollution is harder on my husband than it is on me.

[senator]

Climberman,

Don't listen to the people who say China pollution is not a major thing. I worked in China for 7 years and got out when things just started getting bad.

It's a shame that people in the international circuit would take the chance of ruining their health just to serve some master or mistress at a "Top Notch" school. But money and prestige have always been powerful motivators.

The fact is that we don't know what is in that lousy air or lousy soil or lousy water because the Chinese doesn't say. It all comes out of those smokestacks and into the water and into the soil...then into YOU! Why do you think China is a prime location for the world's toxic waste? And we don't know who will be affected just as we don't know who will be affected by any drug.

It was proven long ago that second hand smoke kills. End of story.

Making 60 or 80 thousand a year won't mean a thing if you are sitting in a wheelchair with an oxygen tank by your side or dying of liver cancer.

People have the right to make their own choices. It seems clear to me that the smartest move would be to avoid working in China, especially northern China.

Forgive the caustic tone of the post. Health is THE most important thing in the world because without good health your world is changed.

Good luck with your decision.

[Fluffy123]

I agree with Senator - we used to have an air purifier on all the time in our apartment and even had to filter the shower water with a special device (never mind drinking water!)- we are not talking biological pollutants here that can be boiled out like a lot of people think - it is chemical (arsenic, lead from the atmosphere) and much harder to deal with.\Lots of schools now boast anti-pollution initiatives on their website (why the need if it is so safe?!) and I totally agree never to listen to any Chinese source about AQI - it never appears to go over 100 and local Chinese (even very educated colleagues who had travelled a bit) refer to it, and believe it is 'haze' - nice!

[vincentchase]

It's worth putting air pollution into perspective in terms of a balanced lifestyle and its affect on life expectancy. People in Shanghai and Beijing live longer than those in New York, arguably because they exercise more and place greater emphasis on socializing. Now, would you refuse a job in New York because it might kill you sooner?

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/china-health-miracle

The life expectancy for Shanghai (where you'll most likely end up if moving to China) residents rose to 82.47 in 2013. That's similar to most Western countries. Big picture folks. Big picture.

http://shanghaiist.com/2012/02/20/shang ... ctancy.php

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/839526.shtml

[wntriscoming]

Here's my opinion, living in China myself: Anyone with children, who is active outside, who wants to spend time outside, who has any concerns about breathing issues, etc. should very carefully consider if the pollution is worth the money shelled out in China. For 2-3 years, perhaps.

It's not just about life expectancy, it's about quality of life as you're living it. Having 30+ days in a row of no sun because of pollution and smog is not quality of life. Having haze drift down school hallways is not quality of life. Spending more and more of your time indoors is not quality of life.

I will say on the flip side, making $60-80K a year is fantastic and the financial stresses lessen in China. I do feel the stress related to health, work-life balance, and other things are what you're compensated for with that high salary.

We are the same as the poster who said, "We used to have an air purifier on all the time in our apartment and even had to filter the shower water with a special device." Buy these.

If you do move to China, I strongly urge you to have a good quality air purifier--Blue Air or Allen Air. It's expensive to outfit your apartment ($2000-3000), but it is not something I would ever skimp on. We also have the shower filters from home (Sprite brand). I researched those a long time before deciding on which kind to get.

The average AQI in Los Angeles seems to be under 15 2.5 pm. Annual PM 2.5 Federal Standard was 15 ?g/m3 until 12/14/2012, when it was lowered to 12 ?g/m3. In Shanghai, it was rarely below 150. It's good to have a comparison of cities to see the difference in air quality. We would literally cheer when it was below 100 2.5 pm and our children would constantly ask, "Is it a green day? Can we go outside?"

Reference for LA: http://www.portoflosangeles.org/AQ_Moni ... 014%29.pdf

[shadowjack]

Vincent Chase, live expectancy is based on a set of factors. It can change. The generation that Chinese life expectancy is based on is the generation after the Cultural Revolution, where things were still far more agrarian. I suspect you will see Chinese life expectancy showing declines (if the true stats are reported) starting in about 10 years - that will be 30 years of heavy industrialization and the impact/evidence will be much firmer, with a greater sample base to show the effect.

Just my opinon. Then again, I expect Western life expectancy rates to go down due to several of the same factors. But who knows?

[Climberman]

Thank you to all who replied.

I am no longer looking in China due to my research and your comments.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

[senator]

It's not about life expectancy. It's about quality of life. You can live to be 82 and spend the last 20 years of your life unable to breathe or walk or (fill in the blank).

If you knew you were going to only live 2 years, would you still do a tour in China? It's up to you. But maybe if enough people refuse to work or even travel in China, the government will finally do something to clean up their country and, by extension, their world.

[klooste]

I've been living in China for 6 months now teaching in Wuhan. The city itself is tier 2 by the Chinese, but that label comes with its own set of advantages and disadvantages.

There are ways to "battle" the pollution in the city, but if I had children, I would advise against moving to Wuhan. My city has days that are worse than Beijing: 450-680 on the western AQI app on my iPhone. I've worn masks, and gone through a dozen air purifiers since I've landed.

you can battle the pollution (you really can, google my health Beijing, and you'll get a dose of hope from a doctor). I've invested in 10 masks with a filter, and a dozen or so smart air purifiers. I find that I get stuffed up quite a bit in this city (I should probably buy a purifier for my classroom and office at work).

So thats my advice: if you come here (or anywhere polluted in China I should say), I would say do some solid research on things that can HELP save your body from the pollution. Other than the pollution, China is freaking fantastic. If you come to China you will enjoy quite a few things:

Cheap cheap cheap prices, both on food, clothing, and some electrical stuff. you'll also enjoy haggling down a price, tao bao, the Chinese language, how helpful Chinese people are, how friendly they are to foreigners etc etc. I would also advise you to cook your own food, and buy veggies from the farmers who sit in their little carts on the street. The veggies from the farmers are freshly pulled from the ground, and stupid cheap. You can also have a fresh chicken cut up right in front of you, and sliced into chicken breasts. Probably get a dozen slices of breast for about 7 dollars USD.

I also enjoy haggling with people, and knowing that you can ALWAYS get something cheaper. Taobao is a paradise in itself.

With these things come a few warnings though: some products might not be real, but there are a couple ways to ensure what you're buying is authentic. I would suggest looking at pictures, and ensuring certification matches the product. For example: my 3m masks for the airpocolypse is ffp3 certified, I just looked for that on Tao bao and found an authentic mask. So there is some risk, but I love adventure, so China is the place for me.

if you do decide to come to China, I highly encourage you to learn some of the language. I absolutely do not agree with foreigners who EXPECT all Chinese people to speak English. The reality is this: most cab drivers only speak Mandarin, most shop keepers only speak Mandarin, some students will speak broken English (in Universities), and you'll run into a few students who speak pretty decent English because they studied it. So don't expect Chinese people to cater to your mother tongue, after all, you are a guest in their wonderful country. I would suggest learning the first 50-100 common words of the Chinese language (pm me if you want good resources).

Overall: China is not for everyone. Culture shock will occur regardless, but its about accepting that China is not America, China is not Canada, its a different place, with its own advantages and disadvantages.

Let me know if you want more information!

I hope this helps!